Some rules for archers and magician...

[swimmy]

i wanna put some rules when they battles:

Archers
1. Do not take monsters away when warriors are.
2. Do not stack.
3. Do not go beyond warriors.

Magician
1. Do not take monsters away when warriors are.
2. Be kind to battlers.

reasons for them:
archers and magicians 1: some magicians attacks skull and run away. And some warriors go to attack it too.
Some warriors hate skulls run. so dont take away.
but killing is approved. if you want to kill them, stand by the monster, and try to kill.
maybe you complain "magicians can't live." but you can use healing magic. so with it.

archers 2: if the archer stacks, you kill monsters before warrior attacks. Then, warrior can't be gained exp.
so try to kill beyond warriors.

archers 3: same with 2. but when you pull many monsters, be approved.

magician 2: this means you have to heal someone when he/she says "heal please" or seems to be injured.
maybe most healers do it...

i want your feedback.

Regards.

[Jumpy]

hi Swimmy

team spirit is the key

i agree with the strategies, tactics you describe with archers and it is nearly always what happen: team spirit archers a step after the warriors, warriors protecting archers and archers not gaining the xp but sharing. it only happened to me once to meet an archer stacking and getting all the xp before the rest of us in a stack (and this one was using potions (both) not nice from him) anyway only one. so i would say that there is a good team spirit between archers and warriors.

now mages...

how frustrating killing a jack0 and get 10 xp when a mage is around firing lightings and getting the drop (so more than 10 xp)
how frustrating when you are lvl 95 and the mage is around lvl 33...

no comment... no... i'll make some...

i just let the game develops in the way devs are building it but it is really unfair the way it is done now
(and please don't tell me it costs a lot of money... it is not a question of money)

this morning i killed 2 jack0s and went away as a mage was there getting all the xp (max i get was 10 k this time... sometinmes it is 5 k)
then i went to the cave entry where 2 skulls are, i went away as a mage was there (max i get was 4 k this time... sometime it is 2k or less)
how frustrating when you are lvl 95 and the mage is around lvl 33...
so i went alone to kill some skulls and cave cleaning i made 5.3 k average on skulls....

well i have now several possibilities opened to me

• play alone
  play only with warriors
  play only with warriors and archers
  never ever again help some mage when attacked
  never ever again help some mage by unequiping armors and so on so that they make an average of 2k on one heal on me
  leave the game
  ...

?

i was in Hurnscal this morning
i read people are leaving because of this.

solutions?

making some mobs being abble to be killed only by warriors or archers or mages so that team building is enforced (and some mobs to be killed by the 3 categories)?
rebalance the damage caused by lightining or whatever war spell casted by mages so that it is fair to fight with them.

so?

what are your plans devs and team?

i know it is a test
i know people go others are coming

so more than rules respect and team work

Regards

[Cotillion]

Wow.

Lots of "Do Not..." coming from EVERYONE playing TMW these days.

Let me add my own list.

Everyone:
Do not tell mages they can not use lightning because you find it unfair
Do not tell archers they can not attack from range because you find it unfair
Do not tell warriors they can not use shield because you find it unfair
Do not tell healers you don't want them to heal you because you only want your party member to heal you
Do not tell anyone they can not use concentration potions because you find it unfair
Do not tell anyone they can not use iron potions because you find it unfair

Everyone:
Do tell DEV and GM you find magic needs balancing, but only do so if you have examples and suggestions.
Do tell DEV and GM you find warriors to powerful, but only do so if you have examples and suggestions.
Play the game according to the rules and game play provided.
If you don't like the rules and game play, get involved and join the team.

I played a solid few hours this weekend, something I have not been able to do for number of weeks. I was stunned by the number of people who got upset at the use of potions, got upset at the mage casting lightning, or got upset at the warriors stacking in the skull room. These are all valid uses of the game functions available to us as players. I expect many of them to change over time as the game develops. But please don't try to govern how others play the game by making rules of your own. Like I said, if you have a real problem with how people are allowed to play, join the DEV team and get involved. Otherwise, keep quiet, play how you want to play, and leave others alone.

[Black Don]

I think any Warrior that complains that a mage is over powered has not spent the time testing for the best setup for a warrior class. I spent around 3-5 million GP in resets and 6 months finding what I call my Ultimate setup for a lvl 90+ warrior. I used this set up against other Warriors that were 2-4 lvls higher then me and I would hold my own against them(i used this set up from lvl 94-97 never played past lvl 97 cause I deleted my in game name sake and took up the mantel of the Troll King). I will post the results here for all to use. First you need to be above lvl 90 to have enough stat points to use this setup. You need full armor including steel shield and a stezer.
STR 70 (there is a big jump in the Attack from 69 to 70)
VIT 50 (will let you take hits from 2-3 skulls at once while in full armor, I could handle 4 at once using potions)
DEX 90
LUCK 60
I put the rest in to AGI

but those were my magic numbers I expect now the mages might start coming to the forum complaining about how the Warrior is over powered.

[bigglesworth]

First you need to be above lvl 90 to have enough stat points to use this setup. You need full armor including steel shield and a stezer.
STR 70 (there is a big jump in the Attack from 69 to 70)
VIT 50 (will let you take hits from 2-3 skulls at once while in full armor, I could handle 4 at once using potions)
DEX 90
LUCK 60
I put the rest in to AGI

Black Don,

I believe you deleted your character before the poison effect was enabled. I think you would perish from poison with a vitality of 50 in the 6 skulls room.

[tapion]

I agree.Mages do unfair duels by attacking and then running.It happens to the archers too.Usualy that happens to the jackO.The mages attack the jackO with storm attack and then run,then the warriors save them by stopping the jackO.It would be better to let them die.Maybe that would help on doing fair duels by them.

[Crush]

Do tell DEV and GM you find magic needs balancing, but only do so if you have examples and suggestions.
Do tell DEV and GM you find warriors to powerful, but only do so if you have examples and suggestions.

Complaining to GMs about gameplay problems is quite futile because only developers have the power to change something. So do not tell game masters, tell developers. But besides this I can only support this statement.

You players play the game much more than we developers do. This means that we are oblivious to balancing problems which are obvious to you. The only way these problems can ever be fixed is when you give constructive feedback. Or even better: When you dive into the deeper game mechanics and suggest specific changes to the [monster statistics].

[Black Don]

First you need to be above lvl 90 to have enough stat points to use this setup. You need full armor including steel shield and a stezer.
STR 70 (there is a big jump in the Attack from 69 to 70)
VIT 50 (will let you take hits from 2-3 skulls at once while in full armor, I could handle 4 at once using potions)
DEX 90
LUCK 60
I put the rest in to AGI

Black Don,

I believe you deleted your character before the poison effect was enabled. I think you would perish from poison with a vitality of 50 in the 6 skulls room.

I disagree I financed heavy use of Iron and Concentration potions so changing from 50 of each of them to a 100 poison cure to that would not be that hard to do.

[evadem]

A hit of 500 and greater from lightning attacks by mages is a little over kill. Either lower this to something reasonable or give the skulls and Jack-O some sort of resistance to its effect.

[Black Don]

I don't think the only option is to lower the power I think increasing the amount of time between lighting bolts could also have the same desired effect. With the stats set up I showed above I was landing more then 6 blows at 200+ dmg closer to 250+ in the same amount of time a mage can cast 2 lighting bolt spells. The question is it fair for a lvl 40 mage to have the ability to do close to the same dmg as a lvl 90+ warrior?

[Jumpy]

Hi

As Don says solution would be more in the time between hits
As Cotillion says just play the game (well imho i have the right to speak and express freely my opinion) and i just play the game and give my opinion

Where does the solution stands?

content development? regarding when and how mage, archer or warrior are whoosed as type of char
Mob balancing?
spells damages with different results depending on the rank in magic skills and char level?

maybe it is not just the time for this...

Regards

Don What do you think of my stats? 55 6 77 1 95 60 no poison clover included 221 155 0 1 190 101 1

[Black Don]

Hi

As Don says solution would be more in the time between hits
As Cotillion says just play the game (well imho i have the right to speak and express freely my opinion) and i just play the game and give my opinion

Where does the solution stands?

content development? regarding when and how mage, archer or warrior are whoosed as type of char
Mob balancing?
spells damages with different results depending on the rank in magic skills and char level?

maybe it is not just the time for this...

Regards

Don What do you think of my stats? 55 6 77 1 95 60 no poison clover included 221 155 0 1 190 101 1

I find the number of hits on a skull are not that different from 90 dex to 95 there is a difference from 90 to 99 but not enough to give up all that exp to get to 99. I have noted that one str = +1 to attack with a sword until you get to 70 teh jump from 69 to 70 give you a 6 point jump in attack.

[Booth]

yeah any dex over 90 is a waste because there is no stat jump and if your a warrior 69 to 70 jumps 6 so 1(actually like 7 or str point vs 5(50-55) dex points used, idk if you understand this but yeah...

[Jumpy]

taking good notes of your advice ! thanks a lot !

now i got to prepare my gp's to reset stats

have fun

Regards

ps sorry for the almost off topic

[Freeyorp101]

I've been running a number of simulations for possible solutions for game balance lately... firstly, I think that having every play style equal in every possible way is just boring, so I do think there does need to be emphasis on particular abilities and methods.

I've thrown around a number of possibilities on IRC and a few of my ideas were expressed in my post [here.]

My main ideas, mostly non-server specific:

Combat counters
Implied, through stats (and/or, [TMWServ specific] monster scripts):

• Being hard to hit, which mages are a perfect counter for (NB: All current high level monsters are this type)
• Moving slowly (probably having some range), which archers are a perfect counter for
• Higher damage and speed, which warriors are a perfect counter for

Explicit, though elemental counters.

• Already implemented to some extent with magic spells that call elemental damage. For example, lightning does extra damage to earth monsters, and less damage to wind monsters.
• (Glancing through the wiki, an implementation for weapons and arrows seems to be [TMWServ specific]?)

Consumables
Allow a character from any style to further emphasize their strong points at the expense of items (from a crafting or buff spell) or money (bought directly from an NPC). Some of the more powerful ones may also emphasize a style's weaker points.

• Something (?) for warriors. I was working on a status effect item (similar to the potions that are already available), but this can unfortunately also be used with the other styles in its current revision. If anyone has any suggestions here, that would be greatly appreciated
• A wider range of arrows for archers, with varying degrees of damage or other bonii and cost/difficulty accordingly. The current revision I have uses a very difficult crafting spell to create them, but does not create that many to compensate for its high bonii. Unfortunately, as it is currently it suffers far too much from the disadvantages described on [this TVTropes article] to be practical.
• The current implementation for mages is the polar opposite of the implementation for warriors and archers: combat spells require (rather expensive) components to use, and are more damaging accordingly. As such, magic isn't that feasible at earlier levels; I've been working on a early level no-component cost spell for mages for this (damage and even accuracy are _extremely_ random to compensate, as is the mp cost.) I've been specifically asked to include experience and other factors in the calculation so it doesn't become redundant at later levels, as well.

Further reinforcements to playing styles through skills (later for TMWServ, and possibly even some existing eAthena skills) may also be an option

Longer term, I've also been attempting to revise some formulae for a number of calculations on TMWServ.


I'd also like to point out that magic does have its own experience and level systems, and lightning has an extremely slow rate of fire, so a level 33 doing 500+ damage with a lightning spell shouldn't be as bad as it sounds (at least, it wouldn't be if all of our current monsters didn't currently use dodge as the deciding factor for difficulty. )


Sorry if this post is a too long, I have tried to keep it as short as possible

As with any of my long posts E&OE. More so due to the frequent lack of response I receive when trying to discuss such things on IRC... living in an obscure time zone has its downsides...


---Freeyorp