new map/punishment for dying

[o11c]

Ages ago, there was discussion about making death have more of a penalty than just respawning you at the soul menhir with half health.

So, I implemented something. Players under level 30 are immune.

I still need: two new tiles - a ladder going up and a ladder going down in the cave - see the map from the commit in client-data.

Client-data: https://github.com/o11c/tmwa-client-data/tree/hell
Server-data: https://github.com/o11c/tmwa-server-data/tree/hell

Requires the latest 'test' branch of the tmwa server itself.

[Alige]

This may help. You may want to, one day, have a look in that repository: https://github.com/alige/online-vortex-data

EDIT: Repository deleted.

[o11c]

This may help. You may want to, one day, have a look in that repository: https://github.com/alige/online-vortex-data

Thanks for posting that image - it is a nice improvement, featurefully and technically. Unfortunately, it's not layout-compatible with the existing tileset, and it would be more work than I can do to replace the all use of the existing tileset. Of course, for only new maps ...


About your repository ... you *do* realize that none of us are going out and looking at what you create when you're not actively contributing to the project?

[Alige]

Thanks for posting that image - it is a nice improvement, featurefully and technically. Unfortunately, it's not layout-compatible with the existing tileset, and it would be more work than I can do to replace the all use of the existing tileset. Of course, for only new maps ...

Don't tell me you can't cut and paste tiles from a tileset to another, or that you have no artist able to do that... And please don't tell me you thought that I wanted my tileset to replace TMW's, I know that would imply remaking all cave maps, I'm not a fool.

About your repository ... you *do* realize that none of us are going out and looking at what you create when you're not actively contributing to the project?

Not a contributor to this project, and for good reasons. One of them is because you don't look enough where you should be looking.


Regards,
--Alige

[georgemhtr]

I am genrally against punishment for dying. Revivng at the soul menhir is enough. Imagine dying inside the terranite cave. Those who can't afford paying to quick-travel there, have to walk all the way back. So either the time spent going back, or the payment for travelling is more than enough. Otherwise, close areas to hubs (cities) are areas where only low leveled people die, so if you want to make it up to lvl 30 immune, then the current system already works.

What's more, sometimes the server has some weird lag spikes with monsters instantly moving to another place, probably because the client didn't update their then current position. When that happens on stronger mobs, you might recieve a fatal hit which otherwise could have avoided. So with deaths being somewhat random, an extra punishment would be way too harsh.

[Crush]

I am genrally against punishment for dying. Revivng at the soul menhir is enough.

Unfortunately, people abuse dying as a free teleport service back to the soul menhir.

[Jenalya]

I didn't have time to look at o11c's implementation yet, but I tend to agree with georgemhtr's opinion that a punishment for death might be too much, especially in cases when you die because of lag spikes. Generally I think the game would need to be better balanced to justify introducing a punishment for death.

[georgemhtr]

Well, if using death to "escape" the teleport fee was not intended, then soul menhirs should bind you to the continent automatically when you travel to said place, instead of giving you the option of binding yourself to them. The wiki also states abusing death as a "tip" for lowbies to save some money while travelling, so if that is the case, such hints should also be removed from the respective articles.

So ultimately, the solution is to either remove the soul menhir system, and bind yourself to the place you currently are upon death (thus escaping abuse) or just develop some counter-abusing methods (I can't really think of anything), at least to my eye.


But really, if someone farms red slimes, those 500 or 1000 gp can be gathered in a matter of moments. I don't see why such fuss should be made about the matter.

[Ablu]

Well, if using death to "escape" the teleport fee was not intended, then soul menhirs should bind you to the continent automatically when you travel to said place, instead of giving you the option of binding yourself to them.

I like this idea.

Regards
Ablu

[o11c]

Technical implementation of autobinding soul menhirs is feasible, since all intercontinental warps are already scripts rather than native warps. For Candor we could either set it to Hurnscald or just leave it alone (it must be either Hurnscald or Tulimshar ...)

This would change the storyline implication of having to touch a Soul Menhir before being able to respawn there.

Of course, that doesn't play nice once we have more than one Soul Menhir on a continent (e.g. the one for the Lumber Camp, southeast of the graveyard - which likely will change the playing style. Of course, unlike the others, it won't be in a "safe" place ... but since the Lumber Camp is a midlevel addition, it will still be effectively safe for the sort of players that can fight in the graveyard anyway)

[georgemhtr]

At any rate, I am glad that you mostly agree o11c

[sango98]

I agree with geormehtr isn't dying punishment enough ?
Just yesterday I was in candor and I forgot my towel I and I had to borrow money from another player to get back to hurns
or else I would have been stock and if dying to respawn to the soulMenhir you touched is bad then why have them ?

I don't like this punishment for dying idea because in this game you can die a lot even if you want or don't want to
you can die by lags (no fault of your own ) other players killing you in pvp areas like terra cave and some times at cindy too many yetis spawning at once and when gms turn hurnscarld into a pvp area as well .
I don't like this punishment for dying idea one bit it also depends on the punishment as well but I don't like this idea at all
dying is enough punishment for me .

[tsukinokage]

Technical implementation of autobinding soul menhirs is feasible, since all intercontinental warps are already scripts rather than native warps. For Candor we could either set it to Hurnscald or just leave it alone (it must be either Hurnscald or Tulimshar ...)

This would change the storyline implication of having to touch a Soul Menhir before being able to respawn there.

Of course, that doesn't play nice once we have more than one Soul Menhir on a continent

I don't see any problem with more than one Soul Menhir on a continent. Since you can set one as the default place for continent respawn, but if you touch the other one, the cotinent's respawn site can change to it. So, in general, Soul Menhir right now have global effect, just change it to have local effect on cotinents.

[v0id]

I'm not for a heavy punishment for death, as it would be something very annoying from a player point of view.

However i don't think having a zero-punishment is good either, since you can do whatever you want without having to care about it.
Put aside the death-lag, if you died, then it's because you failed somewhere. And failing shouldnt be free of charge. I'm not saying it should put you bankrupt though .
It's pretty common to see people dieing without caring about it. While in some cases it's part of the fun, in other cases it's causing abuses or non-sense things, e.g kill someone in pvp and see that player popping back at your place 2 secs later, or pvp events in town that make your dead opponent spawn on the tile next to you the second after.
Hence a soft punishement (like a delayed respawn) that will make players be a bit more careful about the health bar of their character wouldnt hurt in my opinion.

One of the things that make our game interesting is testing your character's limits.

A soft punishment shouldnt go against that: having in mind the fact you "shouldnt die" instead of a "well, whatever if i die" would, in my case, help to push further the limits.

I haven't run yet o11c's code in a local server, but reading diagonally the code, i understood you have to walk on a hell-ish map to get back to the location where you died?
If so, i dont think it's a bad idea unless it's a headache to get out or takes too much time.
@o11c: For those who can't look / test your suggestion, maybe you can explain here what it's about?

[Chicka-Maria]

Personally i don't think there should be a huge death penalty until the balance takes place with stats.

regards,