Monetizing TMW

[Dark_Stang]

I couldn't find a previous topic on this, sorry if it already exists somewhere.

Is there an existing way or a planned way to donate money? Or perhaps a planned "premium subscription" system? This is a game I'm thoroughly enjoying (played it several years ago, left, account got wiped out, started playing it again) and I'd be more than happy to donate a few bucks for my enjoyment. I know this is an amazing and open source game, but everybody has to admin that progress has been slow. I think that's because this isn't anybody's full time job (at least I don't think it is). However if we could generate enough revenue to pay for some more dedication, I think development time would accelerate quite a bit.

I'm not suggesting micro transactions, exclusive premium content, or anything that would give premium players a massive advantage over free players. I hate all of those things and I know I'm not alone in it. Maybe just a donate button on the home page. Or a premium (like $2-3 a month) subscription with minor benefits (ie: an increase in drop rates or experience or maybe some extra in game money, etc.). Or maybe a Kickstarter, this may be a harder sell though. I personally like the subscription system the best. I think if a subscription system was built into TMW the project could go farther faster.

The money generated from this wouldn't have to go to a dedicated team of developers. Instead it could be put towards a bounty program, where small amounts of money would be payed for specific things to be developed. Or maybe small bonuses could be given out to existing people who contribute quite a bit of time and effort.

Please see this Extra Credits episode (and all other Extra Credits episodes) for a lot of good ideas.
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions

Keep in mind I am not a developer on TMW, I'm just a player. But I am a senior developer and I thought some of these ideas might fit here. I don't know if any of them would fit the existing development model well.

[Chicka-Maria]

There is no subscription or things for money, its a free mmorpg (so everything in the game is free). try collecting money in the game, its fast and easy if you kill red slimes. There used to be a donation bin a while ago but im not sure if thats still up.

Regards,

[o11c]

One of the primary goals of TMW is that there will *never* be even the slightest fall into "freemium" territory.

We may have donations open at one point or another, but that will never have any effect on the in-game characters.

[Techron]

FYI

There used to be a donation bin a while ago but im not sure if thats still up.

http://sourceforge.net/project/project_ ... _id=106790

Techron

[Crush]

We had a donation run a while ago when Platyna had to buy hardware for the server.

Except for this occasion where we really needed money we always had the philosophy that everything should be powered by volunteer work.

A bounty system to motivate people to get stuff done could in the end turn out to be counter-productive. I am a bit afraid that when we start to give bounties, people might refuse to do anything without a bounty.

But it might be worth an experiment. Maybe start a kickstarter project to hire a professional graphic artist to create graphics for a completely new area? I am curious if that would work out.

[blackrazor]

There is something truly beautiful and inspiring about the way the project is run now; it is a labor of love for those that contribute to it. Nothing more and nothing less. It is a game, not an "entertainment product".

Please keep TMW well away from that perilous "freemium" iceberg. I've seen "freemium" ruin the fun in countless other games, as cash-shop online games are designed not to be actually a fun playtime, but instead a cash extraction scheme that totally rots away the joy of play.

To be clear, I'm not against things costing money, if needed. The issue is how microtransactions actually change how games are designed, from the ground up, eroding away the fun, and replacing it with clever levers that constantly yank at the player's real-life purse strings, destroying any sense of fair, immersive gameplay.

[Alige]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think that if someone creates a new client for iOS, PC, Mac or anything else, from scratch, he is allowed to sell his client to anyone. Am I right?

--Alige

[Crush]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think that if someone creates a new client for iOS, PC, Mac or anything else, from scratch, he is allowed to sell his client to anyone. Am I right?--Alige

Technically, you can also sell the original client or your modified version of the original client. §1 of the GPL explicitely allows to take a fee for distributing copies. You just have to give the customer the right to do the same, so that's not a sustainable business model.

But when you create a new client from scratch without using any GPL code, then yes, you could release it under an all-rights-reserved license. The TMW server admins could try to sabotage your business by banning people who use your client when they would want to. But that's easier said than done, because when you are smart you can make it almost impossible for the server to tell the difference between your client and the official one.

[Jenalya]

Please keep TMW well away from that perilous "freemium" iceberg. I've seen "freemium" ruin the fun in countless other games, as cash-shop online games are designed not to be actually a fun playtime, but instead a cash extraction scheme that totally rots away the joy of play.

I agree with that, and as long as my voice matters in decision making, tmw won't introduce any benefits in gameplay for money.

About the idea to have bounties for the developers to work on certain features...
As for me personally, I'm an university student and also work some hours a week in a students job. Getting some small money for developing for tmw wouldn't enable me to spend more time on it, because I can't spend less time on those other things.
Additionally, my main motivation to work on tmw is that I like storytelling, and this projects gives me the possibility to combine that with my technical knowledge, and an audience. So when I get the idea for a new quest, and work on that, it's a matter of inspiration. If I'd get paid for developing a certain feature or quest somebody else conceived, I doubt I'd have as much fun with that.

If you want to support development, there are many other ways that don't have to do with money. The most obvious one would be to contribute yourself, be it graphics, mapping, scripting, proof-reading, ...
Beside of that we always need testers for new content on the testserver before release on the main server, or bug reports about existing issues. Also the wiki is a community effort where everyone is welcome to contribute.
And, something which probably only few people think of, the feedback section in the forum doesn't only need to be used for critics and things you'd like to have changed. If you enjoy the game, a particular quest or item or map, feel free to tell so.
A post there telling what you enjoyed in a quest I made would do much better on my motivation than giving me a few bucks.

[Chicka-Maria]

Except for this occasion where we really needed money we always had the philosophy that everything should be powered by volunteer work.

A bounty system to motivate people to get stuff done could in the end turn out to be counter-productive. I am a bit afraid that when we start to give bounties, people might refuse to do anything without a bounty.

But it might be worth an experiment. Maybe start a kickstarter project to hire a professional graphic artist to create graphics for a completely new area? I am curious if that would work out.

I really recommend to not try this "experiment" it would ruin the mana worlds "free" reputation. Its one of the great things about tmw that keep people playing it and get people to volunteer for it. Other wise any dev can charge for their work, which would ruin everything.

Regards,

[Crush]

I faintly remember a guy who popped up a few years ago and wanted to create a freemium TMW server. There is definitely nothing wrong with that. The software is freely available and when you use it to build a game there is no reason why you couldn't charge people for using it.

But I have never heard anything from him and his server again, so I assume he gave up.

When you want to make money with your own TMW server, you have to compete with the official server for players. And that's already hard enough for those server administrators who don't carry the just-in-it-for-the-money stigma with them.

[Chicka-Maria]

I faintly remember a guy who popped up a few years ago and wanted to create a freemium TMW server. There is definitely nothing wrong with that. The software is freely available and when you use it to build a game there is no reason why you couldn't charge people for using it.

But I have never heard anything from him and his server again, so I assume he gave up.

When you want to make money with your own TMW server, you have to compete with the official server for players. And that's already hard enough for those server administrators who don't carry the just-in-it-for-the-money stigma with them.

I also know someone who tried as well and it was miserable so he shut it down. Nobody should be paying money for graphics that were volunteered at make, at all. Or in game money, items etc. It would ruin the game in my opinion and also ruin the in game economy.
If tmw turned to it then theres nothing stopping people from joining a completely free server other than tmw that they can get the stuff you buy with money for free.... Wonderking is a good example of a "freemium" MMORPG and theres many more where you can do this, but this is what makes tmw unique as a game its COMPLETELY free no money is wanted at all even for extra items and money.

You also suggested hiring a graphic artist, and as i said it would ruin the development since everybody who has worked hard is worth something, but theyre volunteering cause they care about the game which it should stay that way as volunteering only and not hiring people.

Regards,

[Reid]

Nobody should be paying money for graphics that were volunteered at make, at all. Or in game money, items etc.

In game money against irl money will change TMW into a free-to-play game, and this is bad. But you're totally wrong with paying for good quality graphics, even project like OpenGameArt are doing this afaik. And it doesn't stop volunteer to contribute graphics.

[Chicka-Maria]

Nobody should be paying money for graphics that were volunteered at make, at all. Or in game money, items etc.

In game money against irl money will change TMW into a free-to-play game, and this is bad. But you're totally wrong with paying for good quality graphics, even project like OpenGameArt are doing this afaik. And it doesn't stop volunteer to contribute graphics.

what makes tmw any different from those games then?

[Reid]

Nobody should be paying money for graphics that were volunteered at make, at all. Or in game money, items etc.

In game money against irl money will change TMW into a free-to-play game, and this is bad. But you're totally wrong with paying for good quality graphics, even project like OpenGameArt are doing this afaik. And it doesn't stop volunteer to contribute graphics.

what makes tmw any different from those games then?

From free-to-play game? You don't need to pay anything to got some special items, money or any other extra in game. But it's nothing about the development of the game itself.