New website, Hard mode

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gumi
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New website, Hard mode

Post by gumi » 13 Aug 2019, 01:16

Shiny new website!
The homepage of The Mana World has been entirely redesigned to work better on mobile devices. It should now scale accordingly with the size of your display so you shouldn't need to zoom anymore. Everything should be in roughly the same places as before except for Account Recovery, which has been moved under Support. Please report any issues you may encounter.


TMW Hardcore
A new "world" has been added to the world selection list: TMW Hardcore. This server is intended to provide a bigger challenge to players who have become experts on the main server. It plays like normal except for these important differences:
  • Death is permanent.
    • There is no way to revive your character.
    • GMs and Admins will not revive you, even if you whine.
  • Obtaining experience and leveling is much faster.
  • The level cap is 127 and stats can go as high as 120.
  • It is possible to kill other players in any map (except towns).
  • Upon killing a player, you obtain all of their belongings and experience.
  • It is not possible to bring your items from the hard server to the main server.
Helpful tips:
  • To avoid loosing items put them in your bank storage
  • If you are killed by a mob your items will be dropped and your ghost will attempt to pick them up but other looting mobs in the vicinity (such as slimes) may also pick them up. You may recover your items by killing your ghost and other looters.
  • Once your character is dead, you can delete it and re-create it on the character selection screen if you want to reuse its name
Please note: The Hardcore server is NOT intended to be a replacement for the main server; it is only an experiment and may close down at any point in the future. Think of it more as a side-quest for bored players.
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by gumi » 13 Aug 2019, 01:55

Evolution of the homepage

2005-04-06
Spoiler:
2005-04-06.png
2005-04-06.png (228.25 KiB) Viewed 642 times
Bonus: login screen
2006-04-06
Spoiler:
2006-04-06.png
2006-04-06.png (162.5 KiB) Viewed 642 times
2008-08-07
Spoiler:
2008-08-07.png
2008-08-07.png (170.57 KiB) Viewed 642 times
2013-06-02
Spoiler:
2013-06-02.png
2013-06-02.png (174.49 KiB) Viewed 642 times
2014-09-08
Spoiler:
2014-09-08.png
2014-09-08.png (172.17 KiB) Viewed 642 times
2015-04-12
Spoiler:
2015-04-12.png
2015-04-12.png (185.2 KiB) Viewed 642 times
2016-03-23
Spoiler:
2016-03-23.png
2016-03-23.png (88.93 KiB) Viewed 642 times
2017-06-03
Spoiler:
2017-06-03.png
2017-06-03.png (295.2 KiB) Viewed 642 times
2018-09-14
Spoiler:
2018-09-14.png
2018-09-14.png (158.24 KiB) Viewed 642 times

Protip: Click on the date to see a live version
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by t3st3r » 13 Aug 2019, 03:09

What I really like... HC server. It just wonderful in how it a simple change, yet it considerably changes gameplay, and even oldtimers die few time a day like utter noobs. This idea is almost epic. Actually, it worked so damn good like half of players gone HC to try another flavor of gameplay. Unfortunately, TMW community wasn't large enough for it: when ppl spread over several worlds, MMO action is nearly non-existent. Which is a problem for MMORPG.

If someone of players failed to get idea: you can launch manaplus once more (as long as system resources allow), connect to same server and appear in main world as well. So you can take part in action on both servers, depending on where it more interesting at some moment. To be fair I have to say some hello to illia fans: it's surely fun for you 4. And everyone else is out. Not a big support for MMO action as well, eh? TL;DR: I've forgot when played candor...

As for home page, er, I'm sorry for not sounding exciting, but...
1) It failing to use display area reasonably on my desktop.
2) It also totally left-aligned for some reason and looks like oversized mobile rendering. On desktop. It just totally weird to me.
3) It totally fails to render without JS. Just shows absolutely blank screen.
4) And if you enable JS, you're "welcomed" by fancy google(?) SPYWARE code:

Code: Select all

<script>window.dataLayer = window.dataLayer || [];
			function gtag(){dataLayer.push(arguments);}
			gtag('js', new Date());

			gtag('config', 'UA-380618-3');</script>
...and there is no obvious way to get rid of that, as this code kindly embedded right into main page. Not even "web firewalls" like umatrix would help agains this kind of folly. Realistically, I doubt I would visit this page often. Oh, btw, turning forum into something like this, or, even better, replacing it with reddit/facebook/google+/slack/<insert buzzword here> can surely get rid of me and my pesky comments as well. Hint, hint.

Any chance of accessing old page to e.g. read news and wiki, etc by other URL?

p.s. troll mode: special kudos to author of w3.css who showcased how to get adaptive web rendering without even single fxxng line of JS and just small css shim, down to like IE7 XD. Someone had to showcase how do do it right, dammit.
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by gumi » 13 Aug 2019, 04:31

t3st3r wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 03:09
1) It failing to use display area reasonably on my desktop.
2) It also totally left-aligned for some reason and looks like oversized mobile rendering. On desktop. It just totally weird to me.
Thank you for the constructive feedback. I will investigate the issues you reported.


t3st3r wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 03:09
3) It totally fails to render without JS. Just shows absolutely blank screen.
We are using Vue.JS and this framework requires javascript, unfortunately.
I will add a note to the roadmap about providing a no-js fallback.


t3st3r wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 03:09
4) And if you enable JS, you're "welcomed" by fancy google(?) SPYWARE code:

Code: Select all

			window.dataLayer = window.dataLayer || [];
			function gtag(){dataLayer.push(arguments);}
			gtag('js', new Date());
			gtag('config', 'UA-380618-3');</script>
...and there is no obvious way to get rid of that, as this code kindly embedded right into main page. Not even "web firewalls" like umatrix would help agains this kind of folly.
This tracking code snippet is the configuration for google analytics, which loads through google tag manager. Adblockers and javascript blockers (umatrix included) can block this just fine as the code is not embedded into the page; it is loaded directly from google's CDN:

Code: Select all

<script async src="https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtag/js?id=UA-380618-3"></script>
Furthermore, this was also present in the previous iterations of the website:
t3st3r wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 03:09
Oh, btw, turning forum into something like this, or, even better, replacing it with reddit/facebook/google+/slack/<insert buzzword here> can surely get rid of me and my pesky comments as well. Hint, hint.
There is currently no plan to ditch phpbb in favour of some external service provider. If you would like to make suggestions, please use the Feedback forums


t3st3r wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 03:09
Any chance of accessing old page to e.g. read news and wiki, etc by other URL?
Pick your flavour:
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by msabh » 14 Aug 2019, 19:46

Thank you very much, Gumi!
Small changes gave us a new kind of gameplay. I like the balance very much. It makes players cooperation is more valuable, the cost of items more adequate.

But could you consider small changes, if possible?

1) Noobs are very defenseless against high-level players. They should have locations with PVP mode off to grow up. I vote for making PVP-on mode only for the following caves: Terrannite, 3rd level of the crypt, and Nivalis's caves. Only where high-leveled players make their profit or grinds for exp.

2) Players are dying in an attempt to do Speed Skill quest. They say there is a swarm of mobs waiting at the entrance of the last big cave. As soon a player enters the cave he dies instantly. That makes the Speed Skill quest impossible to do. The wiki says its name is "Outback cave". (https://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php ... mit_Indian)
Could you help us, please? Without Speed Skill, an archer hardly is able to survive in Terranite or Cindy caves.

3) Another big problem that players are dying because of lags. I suspect there is no technical ability to avoid it, or at least to compensate for their loss.

-----
They call me Msaw, msawis, lum.
aka msawis, lum., Msaw
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by fether » 15 Aug 2019, 20:13

Yes, as Msaw states, there are a couple of maps overcrowded with monsters which makes it almost impossible even to enter them.
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by t3st3r » 16 Aug 2019, 08:58

gumi wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 04:31
Thank you for the constructive feedback. I will investigate the issues you reported.
If you want I can make screen and show particular oddities that I think feel weird to me.
I will add a note to the roadmap about providing a no-js fallback.
Would be very nice. Uhh, I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant, but my personal opinion "framework" for what historically been, basically, 1-page thing with few links looks like overengineering. Ok, I understand, devs can do whatever pleases them. Unfortunately, over time, I find this place less and less friendly to me.
This tracking code snippet is the configuration for google analytics, which loads through google tag manager. Adblockers and javascript blockers (umatrix included) can block this just fine as the code is not embedded into the page; it is loaded directly from google's CDN:
On 2nd thought I guess that's where it hit a wall. But I don't really get why it should be here, tbh.
Furthermore, this was also present in the previous iterations of the website:
Well, it rendered ok without JS, so I haven't bothered reading scripts. But when someone corners me to run code, I'm getting more motivated to investigate what it's up to... too bad it rarely a pleasant surprise, though I'm not really sure why it have to be this way.
There is currently no plan to ditch phpbb in favour of some external service provider. If you would like to make suggestions
Uh, I can suggest mentioned 3rd party services to burn in hell, for example.
Pick your flavour:
Ahh that's kinda useful, thanks. Though it lacks links to wiki/forum/etc...


As for Hardcore server...
1) I can understand it is nasty to die by PKer hand. However it also brings us new dimemsion of gameplay - where one have to consider whole new threat level. AI monsters are dumb and predictable. AI can't plot, ambush or abuse trust. Humans can. That's what brings difference to gameplay. It adds sense of danger, this danger far exceeds what AI can offer. This makes gameplay considerably different and far more similar to real world.

2) In real world you can get murdered young. Or even when you sleep. Some unlucky souls actually do. Sure, such atrocities are heavily discouraged, and retributed. But on technical level its a possiblity, so why "hardcore" shouldn't have it? So I think Msawis idea to enable pvp in just few places is a bit excessive measure.

3) PKers (player killers) are kinda part of RPGs. Main server nearly eliminated this aspect. What's the prob? At the end of day, mainline server so safe ppl just do boring grinding and using death as ... quick teleport. How about excitement? Thrill? Fearing of death and fighting to absolute best of abilities, to say "phew"? Damn, it more like paving the road rather than playing game. And if someone doubts about PKers, read "the noob chronicles" http://thenoobcomic.com/archives/ - very funny depiction of "typical MMORPG". I don't get why PKers should be eliminated on technical level rather than on social. It too artificial.

4) I find it interesting to see what humans would really do, given less "techical" constraints involved. That's how you learn who is who and what they are up to. If someone forced to pretend they are Good Guy, it doesn't makes them good - rather just creates fake illusion at best. Badasses just find another way to misbehave, be it botting, scamming or something else.

5) This said I would agree there should be more or less controlled areas. So for some areas PvP is clearly odd. This includes:
- Ferries. Er, ships aren't generally place where murder of crew or passengers tolerated. Noobs can't avoid using these as well.
- Some buildings. Say, Nivalis house near ferry, or GY houses, etc probably should be safe harbors.
- Hurns outskirts likely should be safe place, noobs would need some materials and its large city after all.

6) Some maps so overcrowded by monsters nobody dares to enter these for the fear of insta-death right on entry. There is some safety timeout, BUT it seems such a sheer # of monsters causes client to process data for a while. So when map finally loads one can find there is little to no time to react. Client's new "feature" to get stuck on hit also ensures it like this: everything freezes - boom, you're in abyss. With very little option to avoid this fate.

Also:
- Is Celestia (pendant) quest doable at all? One have to die to start it...
- Some quests imply a lot of chatter in dangerous aras and one technically incapable of fight while chatting npcs. Though, interestingly it calls for cooperation with other players and makes MMO part of RPG more demanded.
- What about battles like candor, etc where ppl almost certainly die? Maybe they can have some "relax"? After all, even in real world, not 100% ppl die after being stabbed and so. Often medics manage to bring ppl back to life, despite all odds. So unconditional perma-death in all occasions actually exceeds what ppl face in RL :D. Say, some ppl survived lightning strikes and so on.
- I cant hit Druid tree with kaflosh even using 20 bottles of water. Am I suck as rainmaker that badly or it maybe some bug/too quickly ending spell/etc?
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by Pawneeboy » 16 Aug 2019, 12:22

t3st3r wrote:
16 Aug 2019, 08:58
gumi wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 04:31
Thank you for the constructive feedback. I will investigate the issues you reported.
If you want I can make screen and show particular oddities that I think feel weird to me.
I will add a note to the roadmap about providing a no-js fallback.
Would be very nice. Uhh, I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant, but my personal opinion "framework" for what historically been, basically, 1-page thing with few links looks like overengineering. Ok, I understand, devs can do whatever pleases them. Unfortunately, over time, I find this place less and less friendly to me.
This tracking code snippet is the configuration for google analytics, which loads through google tag manager. Adblockers and javascript blockers (umatrix included) can block this just fine as the code is not embedded into the page; it is loaded directly from google's CDN:
On 2nd thought I guess that's where it hit a wall. But I don't really get why it should be here, tbh.
Furthermore, this was also present in the previous iterations of the website:
Well, it rendered ok without JS, so I haven't bothered reading scripts. But when someone corners me to run code, I'm getting more motivated to investigate what it's up to... too bad it rarely a pleasant surprise, though I'm not really sure why it have to be this way.
There is currently no plan to ditch phpbb in favour of some external service provider. If you would like to make suggestions
Uh, I can suggest mentioned 3rd party services to burn in hell, for example.
Pick your flavour:
Ahh that's kinda useful, thanks. Though it lacks links to wiki/forum/etc...


As for Hardcore server...
1) I can understand it is nasty to die by PKer hand. However it also brings us new dimemsion of gameplay - where one have to consider whole new threat level. AI monsters are dumb and predictable. AI can't plot, ambush or abuse trust. Humans can. That's what brings difference to gameplay. It adds sense of danger, this danger far exceeds what AI can offer. This makes gameplay considerably different and far more similar to real world.

2) In real world you can get murdered young. Or even when you sleep. Some unlucky souls actually do. Sure, such atrocities are heavily discouraged, and retributed. But on technical level its a possiblity, so why "hardcore" shouldn't have it? So I think Msawis idea to enable pvp in just few places is a bit excessive measure.

3) PKers (player killers) are kinda part of RPGs. Main server nearly eliminated this aspect. What's the prob? At the end of day, mainline server so safe ppl just do boring grinding and using death as ... quick teleport. How about excitement? Thrill? Fearing of death and fighting to absolute best of abilities, to say "phew"? Damn, it more like paving the road rather than playing game. And if someone doubts about PKers, read "the noob chronicles" http://thenoobcomic.com/archives/ - very funny depiction of "typical MMORPG". I don't get why PKers should be eliminated on technical level rather than on social. It too artificial.

4) I find it interesting to see what humans would really do, given less "techical" constraints involved. That's how you learn who is who and what they are up to. If someone forced to pretend they are Good Guy, it doesn't makes them good - rather just creates fake illusion at best. Badasses just find another way to misbehave, be it botting, scamming or something else.

5) This said I would agree there should be more or less controlled areas. So for some areas PvP is clearly odd. This includes:
- Ferries. Er, ships aren't generally place where murder of crew or passengers tolerated. Noobs can't avoid using these as well.
- Some buildings. Say, Nivalis house near ferry, or GY houses, etc probably should be safe harbors.
- Hurns outskirts likely should be safe place, noobs would need some materials and its large city after all.

6) Some maps so overcrowded by monsters nobody dares to enter these for the fear of insta-death right on entry. There is some safety timeout, BUT it seems such a sheer # of monsters causes client to process data for a while. So when map finally loads one can find there is little to no time to react. Client's new "feature" to get stuck on hit also ensures it like this: everything freezes - boom, you're in abyss. With very little option to avoid this fate.

Also:
- Is Celestia (pendant) quest doable at all? One have to die to start it...
- Some quests imply a lot of chatter in dangerous aras and one technically incapable of fight while chatting npcs. Though, interestingly it calls for cooperation with other players and makes MMO part of RPG more demanded.
- What about battles like candor, etc where ppl almost certainly die? Maybe they can have some "relax"? After all, even in real world, not 100% ppl die after being stabbed and so. Often medics manage to bring ppl back to life, despite all odds. So unconditional perma-death in all occasions actually exceeds what ppl face in RL :D. Say, some ppl survived lightning strikes and so on.
- I cant hit Druid tree with kaflosh even using 20 bottles of water. Am I suck as rainmaker that badly or it maybe some bug/too quickly ending spell/etc?
I'd like to expand on this, places like Candor Battle Arena, Cindy Fight Area, The Crypt Generals areas and Illia House and battle areas should be a 0 pvp zones. I've also had an idea: Instead of Permadeath in 1 go, make it a "3 strikes you're out" kinda thing, or maybe permadeath for 24 hours? Oh and the whole lose your gear thing, You would lose it after the 3rd strike or in case of the "Jail-like" option you'd have to post a bond or something to the "Jailer" to get it back (Say something like $25k or $50k)?
I'm John H., Tom Foolery, Dresden (not German), King Fisher, Clay, John Frost and Preacher. :alt-6: :alt-7:
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[resolved]What the hell is going?

Post by t3st3r » 20 Aug 2019, 18:48

Hey, how the hell this could be possible?

Code: Select all

[17:08] Global announcement: Breii has brutally murdered SomeNoob=) 
I'm dead sure my char has been parked in PVP-safe zone, Hurnscald - wyara witch building. Basically "weapon-free zone" where it exceptionally unlikely to die by death like that. How that could happen at all? Does it imply players are subject to random deaths on arbitrary maps and they can't avoid it, and so bothering to level up char and obtain skills is a total waste? Or ... wtf? Even Nethack would never give such an odd death to me.

p.s. and if it means some "superpowers" were involved in causing my death, interfering with gameplay in totally unexpected way, how about revival of my char as well, for example?

UPD: problem solved, now I can try (not to) to die under more fair circumstances. Thanks Gumi!
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by gumi » 21 Aug 2019, 04:24

updated the server:
  • the pvp map flags have been fixed everywhere so there should be no more random deaths
  • NPCs that normally would insta-kill the player now just set your HP to 1 and respawns you
  • training transmutation magic can no longer randomly kill you. transmutation magic is now re-enabled
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Re: New website, Hard mode

Post by jesusalva » 21 Aug 2019, 05:02

gumi wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 04:24
updated the server:
  • the pvp map flags have been fixed everywhere so there should be no more random deaths
  • NPCs that normally would insta-kill the player now just set your HP to 1 and respawns you
  • training transmutation magic can no longer randomly kill you. transmutation magic is now re-enabled
You forgot to say that SKILL_POOL, SKILL_SPEED and SKILL_RAGING are automatically given any time you login with a level of 35 or more.

sigh Thanks for your hard work, gumi. (I couldn't think on a better pun, sorry. :oops: :alt-8: )
Jesusalva (aka. Jesusaves)
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