Case sensitivity

[WildX]

Before we make that change (which I happen to agree is necessary), I suggest we:
1) Tell as many users as possible that this is planned (and include Spanish, German, and Portuguese/Brasilian speakers in particular).
2) Have some automated method for people to get "unlocked."
3) Tell people again just before we actually make the change.

Maybe sending everyone an email wouldn't be a bad idea in this case.

[Jaxad0127]

Before we make that change (which I happen to agree is necessary), I suggest we:
1) Tell as many users as possible that this is planned (and include Spanish, German, and Portuguese/Brasilian speakers in particular).
2) Have some automated method for people to get "unlocked."
3) Tell people again just before we actually make the change.

Maybe sending everyone an email wouldn't be a bad idea in this case.

Client news should be enough. If they don't bother to read that....

[Frost]

Before we make that change (which I happen to agree is necessary), I suggest we:
1) Tell as many users as possible that this is planned (and include Spanish, German, and Portuguese/Brasilian speakers in particular).

Maybe sending everyone an email wouldn't be a bad idea in this case.

Email could be a good idea. Do you mean send it to the addresses listed with login accounts, or to forum members, or both, or something else?

Client news should be enough. If they don't bother to read that....

I think it's pretty clear that most players don't read the client news. I know that I don't.
I'll go even further and suggest that people who don't read English well are no more likely to read the client news.

Effective communication will serve two purposes:
1) Work with people who play the game, instead of giving nasty surprises.
2) Reduce support costs after the change.

[WildX]

Email could be a good idea. Do you mean send it to the addresses listed with login accounts, or to forum members, or both, or something else?

Sending it to login account adresses would probably reach more people, it would be like a sort of newsletter. Sending it to forum members would be less intrusive, but also reach less people, especially given many forum users already read this news forum.
I'd choose login address, if there is a justifiable reason to bother players with emails, then it should be done.

[o11c]

About the @spawn command: If a nice user interface is wanted, then this belongs into the client.

I agree, but I was hoping to fix some quoting issues first. Well, I guess item names don't have spaces, so it's not an issue actually. although the xml file contains the version with spaces ... probably the client should just send the integer version then.

[Frost]

About the usernames...
Before we make that change (which I happen to agree is necessary)...

I wrote that before I tested actually registering a username with different case.
The web page rejects my test with "The username is in use!"

Maybe I'm missing something. Can someone else explain how to create a "duplicate" login by changing case, and thus causing the situation we're trying to prevent?

[o11c]

About the usernames...
Before we make that change (which I happen to agree is necessary)...

I wrote that before I tested actually registering a username with different case.
The web page rejects my test with "The username is in use!"

Maybe I'm missing something. Can someone else explain how to create a "duplicate" login by changing case, and thus causing the situation we're trying to prevent?

I just tested it with ladmin ... there is no significant difference between ladmin and the in-client registration.

Hm, perhaps the web interface used by TMW.org is case-sensitive. That would mean that recently-created accounts cannot have case-duplicates, but older accounts that predate the web-registration system can.

I could make accounts always case-insensitive like I did with character names, but this means that every installation except for tmw.o would have some accounts silently deleted and the related characters would be orphaned and unrecoverable.

[Frost]

Here is some data about how enforcing case-sensitivity might affect us.

Total accounts on main server: 48787
Logins with same name, different capitalization: 170 (and no account has more than 2 "duplicates")
Logins that use at least some uppercase: 19050
Logins with uppercase that have no email address set: 872

Code: Select all

awk -F'\t' '{print $2}' accounts-copy | sort -f | uniq -ci | sort -rn | more
awk -F'\t' '{print $2}' accounts-copy | grep [A-Z] | wc -l
awk -F'\t' '{print $2, $8}' accounts-copy | grep [A-Z] | grep a\@a.com | wc -l

[Jaxad0127]

Logins with uppercase that have no email address set: 872

How many of those haven't been used in the last year?

[o11c]

If there are still surviving accounts with no email, they're probably pretty active.

But we should run a campaign to get people to @email

Eventually we should require a valid email address for account creation.

[Frost]

Eventually we should require a valid email address for account creation.

Why?

The only reason I can think of is that this is just another attempt to abuse your power. Lucky me, I already have a game account with an invalid email address.

I'd like to clarify something.
o11c does not set TMW policy. Like many of us, he presents his personal ideas here and not necessarily the official TMW policy.

In this case, I will say (speaking officially as a server admin) there is no plan to require email verification for TMW. It's occasionally suggested, but has received little support yet. Players would certainly be asked before we made any such change.

Speaking personally, there are benefits for the player to use a valid email address. It's the most reliable and unambiguous way to request help for a login problem. Some of my friends created a free email account for just TMW. I still think people deserve the right to use a fake email.

Anyone can change his game account email with the following command in the game:
@email old@whateveritwas.com new@newplace.com

But there is a problem with my forum account: It has a valid email address. Furthermore some power politician has removed my access to forums that I have posted in. I consider it inacceptable that I can't read my own posts, but others can. Therefore please delete my forum account.

Another important point. Well, 3 of them.
First, you can change your forum email address. If you find, as I did on Platyna's forums, that this locks your forum account, we can fix it so it works again. For that matter, you could create a throwaway email account, verify with that, and never log into that email again so it expires. Welcome, cody-i-really-hate-spam@hotmail.com!

Second, I don't know the details of your situation, so I'm going to guess. If you posted something to dev forums and no longer have access to read those forums, why not just request access again? You've been a valuable developer and I'm sure we'd welcome you back. Personally, I'm glad that you're still around.

Third, as sorry as I would be to see you leave, we would have to honor your request to delete your forum account. Please consider your other options before you go that route. I'm also happy to talk privately if that would help.

[o11c]

It would be *hugely* beneficial if, when new people don't get the confirmation email because they did not type their email address correctly, that account was simply not created, instead of leading to a situation where they could get locked out.

But regardless, that's a discussion for a later date, when I finally get around to rewriting the hacky login system, which, realistically, will probably only happen after TMWA uses actual databases.

[wushin]

I think most will use a valid email though One could use a throw-away address.

Why I can see using a valid email:
1) Password Resets
2) Account verification

Why not to use a valid email:
1) Always a chance of getting spam on any site.
2) May still be in closet about being a 16-bit gamer.
3) I don't know you, quit asking me questions about where I live, I NEED AN ADULT!
4) Have you ever tried being an anonymous girl online? cyber-stalking is geared towards perverts like wushin.
5) We should allow the people the freedom to come and go and commit to this project as much or as little as they want while imposing the fewest restrictions without gaining consensus from the whole first, which includes; players, devs, gms, afkers, pvpers, the lovers and the haters .

My Official stance is: If they are fine with not being to do Password Resets/Account verification they have to accept the time delays in any such restoration process, if any restoration at all. As not being able to verify the account and resetting a password in MMORPGS is about the worst thing a host can do. Look at all the login stuff on some of the Major MMORPGS. Its most likely easier to login at the NSA then your World of Warcraft account. I mean YOU CAN BUY AN RSA FOB TO USE WITH YOUR ACCOUNT. I'm fine with each account needing an email and I'm ok with throw-away emails. It's the bare minimum we ask to prevent spammers and such from just slamming accounts in. This change would be considered primarily for the protection of the server. Encouraging people to set it is fine. Forcing people to set it goes against Open Sources ideals. "Provided the development coordinator has a communications medium at least as good as the Internet, and knows how to lead without coercion, many heads are inevitably better than one." The Cathedral and The Bazaar. I would think those with old accounts would want the most protection as they have the most to lose. Even if the email address is for nothing other than the manaworld. I have no problem requiring a valid email for registration of an account, but Duck if I care if you ever check it again. Granted nothing will stop someone from creating a bjillion accounts but we can slow them down/make it beyond script kiddie level. After registration, I'd have no problem with allowing the player the option to Not Store the email after the registration email is sent out.

Wushin walks off to see how many virtual users he can add to his database.

[Crush]

The request by cody to delete his forum account was moved to a new topic.

Hint: When you want your forum account to get deleted quickly, please just write a PM to an administrator. When you just post in a forum thread about a completely different topic it is easy to overlook.

Also state if you would like your posts to remain or get deleted together with your account.