General Wiki discussion

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EJlol
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by EJlol »

This is a list of categories / definitions that I use at the wiki. They may not be correct, complete, etc. so feel free to correct me, or add other things.

Quests: These show up in the Quest window.
Events: Events are 'quests' that can be only done during a specific timespan where the frequency of the timespan (if it has one) is annually or longer. Note: frequency can be infinite as some events are only done once. Note2: I'm not sure whether events show up in the quest window, which is why I used quotation marks.
NPC: Any character that is described on the wiki (as important character in the Gasaron History), described in-game, or is actually in-game
Lore NPC: At any point of time the NPC cannot be found in-game at all.
In-game NPC: At some point players were able to interact or talk to this NPC, or at least were able to see his body in-game, I guess.
Event NPC: Only avaiable during events
Shop: In-game NPC that opens the shop window. Note: I'm not sure about NPCs where you can buy things through scripting/talking with the npc.

Feel free to comment on these, or discuss other categories.

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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by Aeuda »

Hmm, Pachua and the blacksmiths are kind of a cross between shops and quests, and are listed under 'crafting quests' in Legacy. Ideally (for rEvolt) I think similar crafting NPCs should be mentioned under both shops and quests.

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jesusalva
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by jesusalva »

I believe a NPC can have multiple categories, yes

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EJlol
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by EJlol »

Indeed, pages can have multiple categories, and categories may have sub categories.

I prefer NPCs not to be listed as quests, but we could have a category 'Quest giver'. The way I see it is that a NPC is a character, whereas a quest is a (part of a) storyline. They are really seperate. It could very well that a NPC gives a quest, and has a shop. As for Legacy 'crafting' (it's actually more like trading with an npc in my opinion...), maybe add a subcategory 'Trader?

  • Quest

  • NPC

    • In-game NPC

      • Shop

      • Quest giver

      • Trader

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EJlol
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by EJlol »

I completely forgot about the 'Object NPC'. Basically an item/chest/thing that is not alive but can be interacted with, most likely has an owner. Needs to have a special reason to have his own wiki page. For instance the https://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Revolt:Bag is also a shop (though I can also imagine this to be merged with Fexil...).

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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by Aeuda »

I guess the question is whether to have a quest page for say "steel shield quest" or to just list the steel shield as something that can be bought from the blacksmith's shop. If more crafting items like that were added having an individual page for each of them could get a bit messy.

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WildX
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by WildX »

Just a note about "Revolt" as a category in the wiki. Pages that are about "rEvolt" are considered to simply be TMW in general. The "Legacy" category is what helps divide the two servers. I say this because I've created several pages without a category and don't want to end up with two standards.

rEvolt is also just a codename for the release in development. In the future there may be a more lore immersive release name that makes sense to people who don't know TMW/Evol history. A category by that name can become confusing at that point.

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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by jesusalva »

Reporting the REMOVAL of Swedish namespace from wiki.

Swedish wiki pages cannot be created any longer.

I did not delete Arabic (Ar) because it have an (outdated) version of TMW Legacy Walkthrough which somewhat works.

However, if it becomes even more outdated (which is unlikely to happen because TMW Legacy is still alive) and no one steps up to translate or maintain arabic translations, it'll be removed just like Swedish >__>

It makes no sense keeping pages which need a total rewrite because they are severely outdated.

What is your criteria for removing language namespaces?

For time begin I do not plan in removing any language namespace which features rEvolt articles, which right now is...
...
...
...The English namespace! hides

Also, languages accepted ingame (like german, french and spanish) will be kept on wiki for... hopefully obvious reasons >.>

Removing an existing namespace is way too bothersome; You cannot/should-not remove a namespace which still have articles on it, and it makes no sense to delete articles unless they are outdated beyond salvation. Therefore...

What about namespaces which do not have rEvolt content?
They most likely will be removed from the translation selection banner.

The languages which received more translation work - Namely, German, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Indonesian, Italian, Polish and Russian - should also be kept for some time even after TMW Legacy die (which will happen at 03:14:07 on 19 January 2038 or earlier).

(Unless, of course, someone patches TMWA to extend its lifetime. Source codes are open to all, you know? This is a free software.)

NEW LANGUAGE REQUESTS

I cannot say on behalf of the other five seven admins - Freeyorp, gumi, 4144, wushin and MadCamel - but I'll only add new language namespaces on wiki which have reached a minimum of 30% translation completion on Transifex.

For example, I would be willing to create an Esperanto section on the wiki because it got 45% translated, but I would not add a greek namespace on wiki, because it only have 2.7% translated.

This 30% value is sort-of arbitrary but it should prevent situations like Swedish wiki, where we created a namespace for only 1 (one) outdated article - which was the main page, so it never had any content to start off.
Other admins might have different criteria for doing that, or might simply not do that (create new namespaces) at all.

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EJlol
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by EJlol »

For the {{disambugation}} template, I prefer to have as less boxes at the top of every wiki page as possible, as for most players it's unnecessary info after having it read once, and they therefore have to scroll past it every time... I edited the playerinfo template to have the legacy page link. Now I'm not much of a google SEO guy, does that mean I may now remove {{disambugation}}? Or does that template has some other SEO trickery I don't know about?

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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by EJlol »

My idea of the items template is something along the lines of this:

{{Item|1300|view=icon}} - Shows icon and name
{{Item|1300|view=icon|amount=3|percentage=25}} - Shows icon, name, and optional amount and optional percentage (useful for quest rewards/costs, drops, etc)
{{Item|1300|view=sidebar}} - Shows all the item information
{{Item|1300}} - Shows just the name

Reason for this that I want to be able to show different kind of information about the item on several pages, and if the information changes, I don't want to be editing multiple pages, trying to make sure everything is correct. In a far away future I may add some mouseover effects that show the item stats (def, attack, price) for example. The API https://evol.tmw2.org/api/items/all.json and https://evol.tmw2.org/api/items/1300.json are certainly helpfull with that.

Now there are a few options we can do:

  • I can write/edit a wikibot to add pages like Item/1300, making use of the API, though the bot needs to be activated everytime the db changes

  • I can beg for a mediawiki extension that caches the API serverside (mediawiki/php), and then I can create a wiki page that queries the cache

  • I can beg for a mediawiki extension that loads the API clientside (browser), and everytime a player visits a page, it loads from the API directly

  • I can do all of this manually (this option is not going to happen <_<)

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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by jesusalva »

EJlol wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 08:41

My idea of the items template is something along the lines of this:

{{Item|1300|view=icon}} - Shows icon and name
{{Item|1300|view=icon|amount=3|percentage=25}} - Shows icon, name, and optional amount and optional percentage (useful for quest rewards/costs, drops, etc)
{{Item|1300|view=sidebar}} - Shows all the item information
{{Item|1300}} - Shows just the name

Reason for this that I want to be able to show different kind of information about the item on several pages, and if the information changes, I don't want to be editing multiple pages, trying to make sure everything is correct. In a far away future I may add some mouseover effects that show the item stats (def, attack, price) for example. The API https://evol.tmw2.org/api/items/all.json and https://evol.tmw2.org/api/items/1300.json are certainly helpfull with that.

Now there are a few options we can do:

  • I can write/edit a wikibot to add pages like Item/1300, making use of the API, though the bot needs to be activated everytime the db changes

  • I can beg for a mediawiki extension that caches the API serverside (mediawiki/php), and then I can create a wiki page that queries the cache

  • I can beg for a mediawiki extension that loads the API clientside (browser), and everytime a player visits a page, it loads from the API directly

  • I can do all of this manually (this option is not going to happen <_<)

1. Yes you can remove {{DISAMBIGUATION}}. Although I'm not very content with the layout (it is not very clear to the user. (It is not clear at all) and it does not auto-detects the Legacy page.*

*: Ideally it should autodetect the existence of Legacy:{{PAGETITLE}} and display the link for the Legacy article in a line of its own, clearly away from the Legacy portal, stating if the page has a Legacy version in an unmistakable way.

2. The API is auto-generated/refreshed with a CI job available here.
You could make the bot, add the credentials as environment variables, and have a new CI job refreshing the wiki. (Would be faster than an extension I assume)

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ksso
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by ksso »

WildX wrote:
13 Jul 2020, 19:42

Just a note about "Revolt" as a category in the wiki. Pages that are about "rEvolt" are considered to simply be TMW in general. The "Legacy" category is what helps divide the two servers. I say this because I've created several pages without a category and don't want to end up with two standards.

rEvolt is also just a codename for the release in development. In the future there may be a more lore immersive release name that makes sense to people who don't know TMW/Evol history. A category by that name can become confusing at that point.

Hi
Also to add this, that each language has their own category: es, id, ru, etc, against legacy that is for english
I am not sure if we are talking about the same, but the comment maybe useful
that's all

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ksso
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by ksso »

Hi,

I already sent a private message to 4144 about transifex
meanwhile, there are some spanish templates that are not working well (it seems) or need new ones (like Template:Useable Item), I just need to copy paste the english ones and translate them, however, I do not see the "create" option (newbie on this), so if someone could give some advice
Thanks


EJlol wrote:
15 Jul 2020, 08:16
For the {{disambugation}} template, I prefer to have as less boxes at the top of every wiki page as possible, as for most players it's unnecessary info after having it read once, and they therefore have to scroll past it every time... I edited the playerinfo template to have the legacy page link. Now I'm not much of a google SEO guy, does that mean I may now remove {{disambugation}}? Or does that template has some other SEO trickery I don't know about?
Also agree about less boxes :)
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EJlol
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by EJlol »

You should be able to create templates. There is not really a link to create non existing templates though, so you just have to manually edit the url.

For example to create a template Test, you change the url into
https://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Template:Test

After that you can click on 'Create' to create the template.

In theory there is also something called 'Wanted tempates' (https://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php ... dTemplates), but it's really easier to just change the url :P.
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ksso
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Re: General Wiki discussion

Post by ksso »

Thank you! ;)
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