Dear TMW Community.

A place for players to do role playing, discuss their guilds, etc.
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WildX
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by WildX » 10 Mar 2013, 15:49

I think we're forgetting something very important here. What's most important about TMW isn't the game itself (which is still important anyway), but the community and what can be achieved by said community. Even if Frost and o11c acted for the good of the game they clearly didn't consider the people behind it and the importance of a solid community that can work together first.

Platyna is undeniably a huge part of our community and a big contributor to the game, and that has been completely ignored. You have disrespected her and the work she has done for this project. I am sure that if you had expressed your worries for the project in a calm and polite way, and explained to her that something had to be done and that you were considering a move, she would have listened to you. Maybe you would have known about the new machine at least.

You keep saying that you had to keep this move from Platyna because she would have interfered, but I'm sure that reasoning with her would have been possible, but you clearly didn't want to do that! You announced the move in game on Thursday and said that "I [o11c] sent her [Platyna] a mail, but I'm not sure if she's seen it yet", after that everything happened extremely quickly and it was pretty obvious (at least to me) that you were trying to do everything as fast as possible before anyone (namely Platyna) could notice.

As for the players, they have been told that this move would make the game less laggy, so they agreed to it. Period. Anyone who can look past that can see that this was unacceptable.
You created your little oligarchy and just because it's not just one person with the power you claim that it's better, but you've proven to not be suited for this job because your decisions and rules seem to be just as absolute than Platyna's, with the exception that her rules are more fair (let's not bring up the former devs as GMs thing, please).
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Ginaria
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Ginaria » 10 Mar 2013, 15:55

Tasisia wrote:This is all very depressing.
...
Anyway I play this game to get rid of stress from everyday worries and right now I am thinking of swapping to the WII.
Hello all :)
probably i am only a little small player here, but I feel like Tasisia today... to read all this is really depressing and probably it's just the tip of the iceberg, that makes me sad. I am so long here, that i have forgotten, when my i took my first steps into Manaworld... i love being here and to have little fun with friends by talking or joining a fight challenge. I am really thinking we have a nice small but mighty player community, I see often many friendly players helping each other and new players. I really like the content releases by developers, for example the last one, Ilia quest done by Void&friends, really cool (let us ignore the lag problems for a moment).

But what the hell happens at background!? I really don't know whats going on, but to be honest its look like a really big communication problem and many don't listen or care about each other. I don't know the reasons, but this project will be only successfully, if you working in a team together and helping each other and have a sympathetic ear. I hope, i am wrong, but if i read this thread and hear other things, then i don't have this impression :(. I wish me, you all will find a way to work together and nobody tries only to reach her/his own goals. Probably it will helps to remember, why you all joined here... but more probable is that i am naive player...
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argul
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by argul » 10 Mar 2013, 16:01

.:WildX:. wrote: Even if Frost and o11c acted for the good of the game they clearly didn't consider the people behind it and the importance of a solid community that can work together first.
They did.
---
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WildX
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by WildX » 10 Mar 2013, 16:04

argul wrote:
.:WildX:. wrote: Even if Frost and o11c acted for the good of the game they clearly didn't consider the people behind it and the importance of a solid community that can work together first.
They did.
This move has greatly divided the community, so no, they didn't.
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v0id
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by v0id » 10 Mar 2013, 16:06

argul wrote:
.:WildX:. wrote: Even if Frost and o11c acted for the good of the game they clearly didn't consider the people behind it and the importance of a solid community that can work together first.
They did.
They did.
As part of the GHP, I've given my support for the move to happen.
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Platyna
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Platyna » 10 Mar 2013, 16:08

Ginaria, here what happened: a developer has got huge power but was refused to get more. So he exploited the fact that DNS admins are no longer active and made the to change the DNS setup to point to his server.

Then he basicly stolen the files he had granted access as the act of trust - that he will use that access only to develop content for TMW.

He then lied to players and GHP that it will solve lag issues (he said they are caused by the Platinum, even if there was diagnostic ran and proved otherwise).

He also threaten that if he will not be an admin of TMW he will not do any new content updates - so he basically blackmailed the TMW community.

All of this without any notify or asking me to permission to copy the files from my account on my server, so he can do the move before I notice, which he did, and after gaining the absolute power he kicked me out of GHP (also without any notice).

This thread isn't about be depressing or happy, this thread is about future of the TMW, it is a fight of members of old TMW team to save the project from getting into hands of the wrong people, who already proven that they can be abusive.

All players should read carefuly the posting above, and keep it mind that very important thing is going on, because it is about if the TMW as we know it will exist or not.


Regards.
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Crush
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Crush » 10 Mar 2013, 16:09

I was aware of this plan, but because I am not involved in development anymore I believe to have a pretty neutral perspective on this.


So what has actually changed for the player community?

Platyna isn't there anymore, but the whole rest of the development- and GM team is still there. The role which was fulfilled by Platyna is now provided by other people.

I understand that this whole situation sucks pretty badly for Platyna, but for the player community nothing has really changed and the development community at least believes at the moment that they are better off without Platyna.
  • former Manasource Programmer
  • former TMW Pixel artist
  • NOT a game master

Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


You might have heard a certain rumor about me. This rumor is completely false. You might also have heard the other rumor about me. This rumor is 100% accurate.
Ablu
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Ablu » 10 Mar 2013, 16:12

Platyna wrote: He then lied to players and GHP that it will solve lag issues (he said they are caused by the Platinum, even if there was diagnostic ran and proved otherwise).
Lag is gone on the new server, at least when i played a bit recently.
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Nard
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Nard » 10 Mar 2013, 16:16

Ablu wrote:Lag is gone on the new server, at least when i played a bit recently.
According to the information I have you didn't play enough. but you are fortunate, I still cannot play in good conditions though DNS information had time to propagate now.
Last edited by Nard on 10 Mar 2013, 16:18, edited 1 time in total.
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TGE
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by TGE » 10 Mar 2013, 16:16

I have to agree with what Ginaria said. Being also a novice player after reading all of this really makes me depressed and sad.

A few days ago i was talking to a friend and said that "TMW is really a nice game, i've played other mmorpg where people are real jerks, but not here"... Guess i was somewhat wrong about this....

It is really sad to see the way politiness, rules, communication and general common and community sense are ignored....

...really sad...so yeah, another complain right here...
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Platyna
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Platyna » 10 Mar 2013, 16:27

TGE wrote:I have to agree with what Ginaria said. Being also a novice player after reading all of this really makes me depressed and sad.

A few days ago i was talking to a friend and said that "TMW is really a nice game, i've played other mmorpg where people are real jerks, but not here"... Guess i was somewhat wrong about this....

It is really sad to see the way politiness, rules, communication and general common and community sense are ignored....

...really sad...so yeah, another complain right here...
Yes, there were no jerks...because TMW almost since its begining had a caring community administrator, who did everything to be fair, to keep an eye, solve conflicts, ban wrongdoers and abusers and to prevent bad things happen and to set fair and simple rules.

This is what I tried to do, and this is why I cannot allow that brutal take over.

Regards.
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0x0BAL
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by 0x0BAL » 10 Mar 2013, 17:22

I hope this doesnt get any worst, and i wish you all could solve it.

Regards, your most lovely friend...
Matt
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Matt » 10 Mar 2013, 17:31

Bjørn wrote:Platyna, I agreed with the move as did ElvenProgrammer (who had to change the DNS settings). However, I'm sure neither of us knows much about what's going on in this community these days. If you only just found out, then I can only conclude the same counts for you.

I do not endorse the direction this project is going in general. The idea of developing an own server has been abandoned in favour of fixing up tmwAthena. Client development has been outsourced to ManaPlus. Both are projects driven by a single person, so as far as I can see there's nothing left of the team we had years ago. To me it's depressing, but I've accepted it as there is nothing I can do about it.

My advice to you is, let it go. The Mana World is driven by new forces now, but at least it's driven by forces at all. They got time in their favour, like we had in the good old days. Let them improve and fix The Mana World as they see fit. Maybe we will be surprised by what this project can achieve.
+1.

For some strange reason this project is guided by people nobody knows!
(and the members behind this move are only with the project since 2-3 years? wth?)
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Jenalya
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Jenalya » 10 Mar 2013, 17:56

Just to be clear, the decision to move the host of tmw wasn't made by Frost and o11c alone. This decision was made unanimously by the game masters, senior developers and server admins of tmw.
Additionally we contacted former developers and admins, as Bjorn, Crush, Freeyorp and Elven, to ask for their opinion and advice about the idea. While they weren't enthusiastic about it, none of them advised us not to do this.

So far we refrained from giving detailed information about why we considered this move necessary, because we wanted to avoid a flamewar like this. It seems this wasn't a success, so after following this topic for a while, I think it's necessary to explain our reasoning.

There have been communication issues with Platyna since quite a long time now. As far as I see this is on the one hand because Platyna doesn't have much time for tmw, due to her studies and real life obligations. On the other hand, the community evolves over time, and currently active gms and devs weren't around while Platyna was more active.

When we tried to contact Platyna in regards to technical issues or gms had questions about how certain rules should be interpreted, it usually took a long time until there was a reply.
When there was a reply, it often gave the impression she didn't really consider the situation, but she blocked any further discussion or elaboration with the statement that her ruling is absolute.

This is also the reason why we didn't discuss the move with her beforehand. She stated clearly that she considers her power over tmw as absolute, forbiding any discussion about this categorically.

What convinced me personally that there's no point in trying to discuss with her is this:
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 53#p130053
Platyna wrote:I am also dissapointed that some people tries to interfere with the rules I set, behind my back (I have found a topic when someone was already prepared to announce that no devs rule no longer apply). As well as changing the bot rule interpretation. It is my first and final warning - any hand raised behind my back, on the rules I set, will be cut off.
This was before the idea to move, and everything that had been discussed had happened in places where she could see it, and we even specifically asked for her input. This reaction looks as if she didn't read any of that.

I'm sad that we couldn't solve this in a way that doesn't cause so much hurt feelings. Nevertheless this decision was made with the well-being of tmw in mind.
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Platyna
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Re: Dear TMW Community.

Post by Platyna » 10 Mar 2013, 18:53

Jenalya, stop using my studies to whiten that shameful putsch. When I had no time to fullfill your requests asked you if you agree and I gave you all possible access to you, so you can perform all the neccessary changes. So my absense is not a case here, it is enough to read o11c's messages to see what was a real reason for the move. He revealed it quite clearly.

Regards.
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