SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

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loofrewop
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SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by loofrewop »

I noticed that SUSAN is being spawned at the Doctor's room (009-2) since one month ago, very closer to a respawn point. This makes me assume that someone is benefiting with these spawns.

Why do I care about this?
1) Because SUSAN gives about 2 million EXP per kill, even more EXP if got hitted by several players.
2) Because a GM is spawning it frecuently without report other users a "killing event" or something like that, keeping hidding SUSAN near a respawn point
3) Because SUSAN is supposed to be a new monster, mostly on development because didn't exist at game at all. Don't know if it's supposed to give that EXP ammount.

(yay! 2'048.051 Exp points, really?)
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(Since November until today, Susan tormenting the doctor :alt-5: )

What players think about it? Like to fight susan to lvl up faster too?
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TheManaWorld
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by TheManaWorld »

Someone managed to kill it :D and maybe got tons of exp! :D
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Apple.
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by Apple. »

Interesting. What happend there?

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gumi
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by gumi »

SUSAN was actually only intended as a joke mob and was supposed to be ridiculously hard to kill and give 0 exp but unfortunately o11c made tmwa auto-generate the mob exp values based on mob stats, so the stronger a mob is the more exp it gives (can't be tweaked manually)

I would have to modify the tmwa source code to add support for custom exp but wildx says it's fine if SUSAN gives a ton of exp because she doesn't normally spawn in any map (can only be spawned by staff members)

CRC was given Event Manager status with Prsm's blessings but if you believe there's abuse then please inform him (as a GM, Prsm has full authority to take disciplinary actions or issue bans, at his discretion)

EDIT: sorry, didn't see this was an old post from 2018 (someone bumped it)
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Freeyorp101
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by Freeyorp101 »

I believe that experience values have been automatically generated through Jaxad's implementation of radiant's formula since 2009, complementing fate's mob mutation system, which was introduced late 2008. At the time at least, you still had the option of overriding experience calculation by specifying a non-zero value in the EXP column of mob_db.txt.

Was this later removed? As far as I can tell, [this is still meant to be the case], and if not, that should be fixed?


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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by Hello=) »

My point of view...
1) Killing hard mob just to get 0 XP is utterly frustrating experience from player's standpoint. Except if it drops some unique item or so. The later warrants a lot of bitching about fairness from players as well, but that's life and MMORPGs have to live with it. Fairness in MMORPGs isnt absolute and is always subject for heated debates. That's how it works. At most its possible to make mechanics more or less OK for most players - but people would still keep bitching about certain details, sometimes it would even have point as complexity of world and interactions makes it hard to foresee all possible actions and outcomes. This said, unrewarding boss is nice way to piss players off and drive the off to more sane RPGs, etc.
2) This said most obvious imbalance have to be fixed, sure. But if we're about that, what is totally unfair is warriors vs pvp. I would tell it far worse problem compared to this - it ruins gameplay for years.
3) Btw, remember, pateame is the one who conducted rather nasty attacks on the server, causing a lot of chaos. So he is hardly a person who wishes best our in-game community. Speaking for myself it's a reason to take his views with grain of salt. Maybe he rather wanted to make TMW utterly boring, no fun to play, so ppl leave it? Unrewarding boss surely fits this idea.
4) Bosses are meant to be bossy, hard to kill and ... equally rewarding. And what's the use of boss you can't encouter in game?! That's what supposed to make MMO action to happen, so many players would try to kill boss. While it is debatable if doctor's room is best place to spawn Suzan (confined area -> little room for MMO action, worked better in e.g. abyss), I do think it is better to leave this boss as is - with ton of XP and hard to kill. And spawn it eventually. Not too often. It really HARD to kill. Nearly impossible to kill alone unless player is awfully persistent and not driven away by hell a lot of deaths and so on.
5) Speaking for myself I only killed few of these in my whole TMW history (~10 years). Probably being the only player to achieve this feat - yes, Gumi, I'm the one who cleaned up botcheck mess, this implies getting rid of 2 or 3 suzans :D. Seems I'm not terribly bad at using situations that look dire and hopeless in my ... advantage. Sure that gave me some XP - but I'm capped at lvl 99, so who cares if it would be 841M XP or 846M? If someone thinks it easy - let him put a show, showcasing this easy victory :). Should it work I would agree it is bug to fix. If player would consider all efforts they had to put not worth of reward.
6) Event coordinators are relatively new thing - and there could still be some things to iron out. Isn't contacting Rill about issue is a most logical choice as #1 action to do?

This said I do not really get how exactly Suzan spawn is "abuse" and who would be in unfair advantage over others as the result of this and why. I rather consider it a pointless bitching of person notorious for server takeover (so their sense of justice isn't to be taken as something granted). And honestly, weren't Rill's events fun and worth of it overall? I bet if someone dislikes something about events, most logical way could be to contact Rill?

p.s. and if someone really wants to nerf something, nerf banshee, outshooting others by such a huge margins could get annoying and abusive, especially in confined areas. Especially for warriors I guess - it rather sad to work on monster for a while just to lose drops & most XP to someone who came far later (IIRC such attitude is a "bannable offence" in things like ragnarok, btw - something to think of for outshooters).
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by Livio »

Guys, please: be a little patient and let me explain how that happened.

One day we found a SUSAN spawned where the fluffy hunting is done (at the east side of the barbarian village) but I don't know who spawned it.
Near the SUSAN there was a crew member attacking repeatedly SUSAN's maggots during the three minutes time limit asking me NOT to kill SUSAN because he can get a lot of maggot slime to make lifestones since banshee archers burns down a lot of those.
SUSAN.png
SUSAN.png (179.02 KiB) Viewed 9745 times
I can't remember who spawned it but it wasn't the leader of the Crew of Red Corsair because when she noticed it, she requested us to kill SUSAN because the Barbarian village quest cannot be completed with that mob in that area.

After that we looked for a place to spawn another SUSAN somewhere to keep harvesting maggot slime.
We found that the hospital is the place with the shortest respawn path and asked for a SUSAN spawn there.
CRC spawned it for us and that was not kept hidden to none as you can see here: http://crc.themanaworld.org/gallery_images/1008989.

We harvested a lot of maggot slime inviting other players not to kill SUSAN but eventually helping us out with that.
Some days after we found out that SUSAN was killed and I haven't asked for another one. I don't know if loofrewop's log picture can be trusted about respawnings. If I recall correctly there's a link that shows administrative commands log but is not shown on his post.
If an Event Coordinator is not behaving fairly surely he will lose that status.

And a lot of time has passed so I believe that's no reason to go on talking about this anymore.
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by WildX »

Using commands to spawn an unreleased mob for the purposes of harvesting materials is not an "event" and is IMO an abuse of commands, but a very minor one. I'm sure Rill (I believe only Rill operates the CRC account, but I may be wrong) only meant well so I wouldn't make a huge fuss about this. I'd just urge any event coordinators not to do this in the future. :)

P.S.
SUSAN is lovely and beautiful and a friend to all. Her maggot children's drop rate may need to be reduced a bit but I'm very happy for CRC to spawn SUSAN for the enjoyment of all because she is wonderful and we love her dearly, just don't use her for harvesting slime for your nefarious magical experiments!

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gumi
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by gumi »

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Apple.
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by Apple. »

CRC spawned it for us and that was not kept hidden to none as you can see here: http://crc.themanaworld.org/gallery_images/1008989.
Im not sure if the crc forum counts as not kept hidden because its not like I take a look there often to see if there es a mob who can be used for farming maggot slime Ö.ö?!

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Livio
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by Livio »

Apple. wrote: 25 Jun 2019, 00:04
CRC spawned it for us and that was not kept hidden to none as you can see here: http://crc.themanaworld.org/gallery_images/1008989.
Im not sure if the crc forum counts as not kept hidden because its not like I take a look there often to see if there es a mob who can be used for farming maggot slime Ö.ö?!
Apple if you were online at that time you probably noticed me and some other players asking for some help with that monster.
And if you don't take a look at CRC Forums that doesn't mean that we hid that from you.
And now that I think of it a GM once kept a short and improvised spawn party without broadcasting it nor posting it on any forum. And nobody complained about it even when the other players reached the place when the spawn party was about to finish.
Probably you weren't playing that day because I'm sure that you would report that maybe saying something about how wrong is this world when people is getting cookies but not you, because you were looking elsewhere.
And yes. I've got even got a sapphire that day (but not from SUSAN ofc)...
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Apple.
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by Apple. »

Ok first: My messege yesterday was a little harsh, at least the last part. Im sorry for that.
And if you don't take a look at CRC Forums that doesn't mean that we hid that from you
For me the crc forum is a place for crc members. And the ability to spawn things is an permission to make events for all players if I'm not wrong.

Thats the only problem I have with that.

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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by Livio »

You should keep in mind that TMW got better and better after every incident so it doesn't mean that this game is not going to be fair but something nasty has to happen to avoid it happen again.

Looking better at posts I've noticed that loofrewop is not an active player anymore and got banned.
He posted another thread like this one playing at pointing fingers instead asking why things like that happened and what is needed to fix it.
So I'm going to believe that loofrewop was looking for those kind of opportunities to shitpost with the result of compromising relations and game balance. I hope that nobody else will come to reply with that purpose.

However CRC was at her very first time EC experience.
This is her first attempt:

Code: Select all

livio@AcerExtensa5220:~/Scrivania$ ./tmwgmlog.sh search Crew @spawn
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-09:[2018-09-01 18:21:19] 018-1(25,98) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn HungryFluffy 100
And it was only two months before SUSAN spawned at the Hurnscald Hospital.
Those are all the times CRC spawned a SUSAN (1134):

Code: Select all

livio@AcerExtensa5220:~/Scrivania$ ./tmwgmlog.sh search Crew 1134
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 19:16:22] 033-1(71,33) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 19:36:33] 033-1(71,29) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 19:38:05] 033-1(71,29) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 19:39:21] 033-1(71,29) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 19:39:32] 033-1(71,29) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 19:53:51] 057-1(65,62) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 19:58:58] 055-1(134,61) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 20:00:16] 055-1(134,61) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 20:02:09] 055-1(134,61) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 2
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-03 20:04:13] 055-1(133,61) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 3
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-06 22:29:53] 009-2(148,22) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-06 22:30:09] 009-2(148,22) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-10 22:09:04] 009-2(145,22) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-10 22:09:37] 009-2(145,22) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-10 22:10:01] 009-2(145,22) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-10 22:10:36] 009-2(153,23) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-14 18:57:39] 009-2(154,23) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-11:[2018-11-21 23:06:17] 009-2(145,22) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-12:[2018-12-12 01:33:10] 009-2(154,24) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-12:[2018-12-15 15:25:20] 009-2(147,23) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2018-12:[2018-12-15 15:25:50] 009-2(147,24) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2019-01:[2019-01-01 00:03:36] 009-1(52,36) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 10
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2019-04:[2019-04-14 16:48:10] 018-3(35,25) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2019-04:[2019-04-14 17:18:10] 018-3(75,30) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
/home/livio/tmwgmlogs/gm.log.2019-05:[2019-05-13 16:07:41] 018-3(74,29) Crew of Red Corsair(2194817) : @spawn 1134 1
As you can see, if you trim the spawns occurred at the Hurnscald Hospital (009-2), there aren't many spawns to consider CRC an EC that is abusing privileges to make players level up faster using SUSANs.
WildX wrote: 24 Jun 2019, 18:34 I'm sure Rill (I believe only Rill operates the CRC account, but I may be wrong) only meant well so I wouldn't make a huge fuss about this. I'd just urge any event coordinators not to do this in the future. :)
I'm not aware of other complaints about CRC abusing EC powers. And I don't see the reason to change Anne and SUSAN.
Apple. wrote: 25 Jun 2019, 08:09 For me the crc forum is a place for crc members. And the ability to spawn things is an permission to make events for all players if I'm not wrong.
Thats the only problem I have with that.
Complaining about a problem after more than seven months makes me think that is not a real problem to you.
Apple. wrote: 12 May 2019, 13:20 Interesting. What happend there?
After all you became aware of loofrewop's post after more than six months and resumed answering after I've made mine.
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Re: SUSAN @spawn at Doctor's room

Post by WildX »

This is devolving into a useless flamewar. Every time GM commands are used someone will complain about abuse. There's nothing constructive to be added to this discussion. We know who did it, we know why, we know Gumi has released a fix to make SUSAN less grind-worthy, no further action is needed.

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