Getting Publicity. . .

[Aeuda]

Hey all! I've been thinking for a bit about perhaps building some hype/publicity for rEvolt ant TMW-Legacy to attract more players. Here's a list of things we could do roughly sorted by type and difficulty.

Have and maintain website/forums/wikis

Edit: actually, some of our websites (mostly Evol) are a bit outdated

• https://www.themanaworld.org/

• https://forums.themanaworld.org/

• https://wiki.themanaworld.org/

• http://evolonline.org/

• http://wiki.evolonline.org/

• http://manaplus.org/

• https://spi-inc.org/projects/tmw/

• TMW-Br LoF etc. . .
  Not to be mean, but as far as I can tell other servers don't have a lot of media presence so outsiders are unlikely to land there. I'll try to limit this list to mostly places where someone who doesn't know about TMW might possibly discover it to keep it reasonably sized. . .

Code management and review

• https://gitlab.com/evol

• https://github.com/themanaworld

• https://sourceforge.net/projects/themanaworld/

• https://gitlab.com/manaplus

• https://www.openhub.net/p/themanaworld

Social media

• Discord
  Check!

• Facebook
  Somewhat active

• Youtube
  The 'official channel' https://www.youtube.com/user/TheManaWorldOfficial seems to be dead, but kytty and others have been uploading a few videos.

• https://www.reddit.com/r/themanaworld/
  Not a lot of activity it seems

• Twitter
  Abandoned also, don't search twitter for 'manaworld' search for 'the_mana_world' instead

• Twitch
  I dunno how 'stream-able' TMW is tbh. . .

Ranking and listing sites

There are a surprising number of sites dedicated to just listing and ranking games. It probably wouldn't take much effort to add TMW, so I think I'll just go ahead and do that if I can. (I'll wait a bit in case someone tells me it's an awful idea though)
Todo (does not list TMW):

• https://www.ranker.com/

• https://alternativeto.net/

• https://gameslikefinder.com/

• https://www.igdb.com/

• * https://mmohuts.com/games/

• * https://www.onrpg.com/games/

• https://www.mmobomb.com/

• * https://www.mmogames.com/

• * https://mmos.com/

• https://thebigmmorpglist.com/

• https://old.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/wiki/freegames

• * = website does not have an easy to find 'submit game' page.

Done (lists TMW):

• https://www.giantbomb.com/the-mana-world/3030-56968/

• https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/The_Mana_World

• https://www.linuxlinks.com/themanaworld/

External Wikis

• Wikipedia
  There are Chinese and Portuguese pages but not English!?! I expect this to be fixed anonymously in the near future. . .
  Edit: Apparently there was some drama about TMW not being 'notable' enough by Wikipedia's standards.

• https://libregamewiki.org/The_Mana_World
  A bit outdated. . .

• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... eManaWorld

Press release

• https://www.gamespress.com/About-Games-Press

• https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 9005096/en
  We probably couldn't get a press release in businesswire, but this is a decent example of a press release for an mmo.

If we wanted big review sites like say IGN to take us seriously it would be useful to have an official looking press release. I could write one, but it'd be nice to have someone check it over. . .
If we're going big we'd probably need to appoint someone as an official press contact, so game reviewers could ask them questions and stuff. I'd volunteer, but it might be a bit silly as I don't really know that much about TMW to be honest
It would also be good to set a specific date for rEvolt if we were to make a big announcement about it.

Review sites

Has never reviewed TMW:

• GamingOnLinux.com

• Gamasutra

• IGN.com

• pcgamer

• pcworld

• https://www.gamesradar.com/

• mmobyte

• https://opensource.com

• https://itsfoss.com/

• https://linuxhint.com/

• https://www.unixmen.com/

• (some of the above mmo sites)

Has already reviewed TMW:

• https://www.linuxlinks.com/NotableGamesPart2/
  *This is more of a listing than a review, but they did call us a 'notable game'.

afaik to get publicity on these sites, we'd just have to ask real nicely for one of their writers to write an article about us. It's a lot easier to write an article if you have a press release to plagerize

Distribution platforms

• Linux Packagelists
  (afaik Arch is the only linux distro that can install ManaPlus without adding a custom repository or compiling from source)

• Lutris.net

• Itch.io

• Steam
  https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =232178669
  Edit: apparently TMW was 'greenlit' back when that was a thing, but there was some drama over whether Steam is GPL compatible. There are valid arguments for and against.

• GoG

With the exception of perhaps Lutris, puting the ManaPlus client on these platforms would require support and continued maintenence from the Manaplus team.

Any thoughts? Is getting publicity even a good idea?

Edit: I'll add new links above as I find them or as people mention them, just so we can have a summary of current and possible future external media presence.

Scientific papers

Not really relevant to the discussion IMO, but I think they're cool, thanks Jesu

• https://www.cin.ufpe.br/~dmt/CEGUI.pdf

• https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a0a7/c ... 9eaf17.pdf

[EJlol]

Not to discourage you but, Wikipedia....

See search.php?keywords=wikipedia&terms=all ... mit=Search for all attempts. And especially read this topic: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4529&hilit=wikipedia

Getting publicity is always a good idea. We need more players and developers!

[WildX]

I've been conflicted about this. Publicity will get you both new players and new developers, but new players will soon leave if the game they've been advertised is unfinished. If they don't leave they will be disappointed that they can only play on an older server and will have to start again on a new one at some point (they don't strictly have to but that's where development goes to).

We have an unfinished game that would benefit from being seen by more potential developers, but it would not benefit from attracting lots of new players before the content designed for them is ready. I've been planning an advertising campaign for a while but have been hesitant to get it started. The perfect time would coincide with the release of rEvolt. We even have the funds to pay for advertising spots on certain websites.

Also, thanks for taking the time to put this together. It's very useful to have all those links in one place.

[Aeuda]

Noted: Wikipedia needs 'external sources' and creating too much hype prematurely might be a bad idea.

in my estimation, the ideal strategy would be to put effort in to advertising a month or two prior to a definitive 'release date' for rEvolt, to build hype and whatnot.

It'd be nice if we knew about how close to being releasable rEvolt really is, but I get that it's kinda hard to do with a non-centralized volunteer project.

[gumi]

For the external sources we have Black Duck Synopsys OpenHub and Giantbomb that could be useful. We could also refer to SPI, our sourceforge, and our github/evol org.
They're all third-party services, even though we have some degree of control on them

[jesusalva]

I don't like Wikipedia and do not endorse its use, but here a few other references:

A published scientific work, where TMW was used to build “The Quest for the Dragon Egg”. Several references in the forums, do your homework and search for it.

https://books.google.com.br/books?id=7R ... rg&f=false

Another scientific paper about it, but this one is more of sociology branch while the former was more IT-based

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a0a7/c ... 9eaf17.pdf

The Mana World in Free Software Foundation Directory

https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/The_Mana_World

Review by LinuxLinks, featured as "Notable Game" in 2017

https://www.linuxlinks.com/themanaworld/ and https://www.linuxlinks.com/NotableGamesPart2/

ZoomInfo database tracking us down

https://www.zoominfo.com/c/the-mana-world-dev/351328290

Steam Greenlight Page (never created due license DRAMA)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =232178669

SPI resolution which approved TMW membership, as well as their analysis of merit

https://www.spi-inc.org/corporate/resol ... -07.mzh.1/

Web Analysis by two different providers, as well as estimated website worth ($480.00 ~ $2210.00) and the over 15 years of existence testimonial

https://themanaworld.org.cutestat.com/
https://themanaworld.org.websiteoutlook.com/

PS. You can also obtain this info by making DNS requests etc.

A brazilian scientific paper from the Federal University of Pernambuco (UFPE) where TMW is quoted, about CEGUI (graphical interface, see cegui.org.uk)

https://www.cin.ufpe.br/~dmt/CEGUI.pdf

Of course, nothing stops you from taking an article in TMW-BR, Moubootaur Legends, or even LoF website about The Mana World - but that would be a bit... weird.
Was done on Brazilian wikipedia, though.

PS. @gumi Black Duck, seriously? Moubootaur Legends has the Darth Duck, I do not advise fighting it if you're a noob.

[Aeuda]

Uh Oh, it looks like I opened an old can of worms by mentioning Wikipedia. . .
Some of those links are valid 3rd party references, and some are clearly not, or not particularly useful. If we want to talk about wikipedia specifically though, could we please open another thread?

As self-declared thread dictator I propose we discuss

• how and when should we try to increase public visibility (if at all) ?

• generally what types of sites/media should we try to get publicity on, (regardless of whether it's possible or not) ?

• for places where TheManaWorld and related projects already have some visibility, what amount of maintenance is required?

[WildX]

I reckon getting onto Wikipedia would be easier now that we're part of SPI and hosted by Microsoft Azure. We also have 15+ years of history behind us. I don't know if a Wikipedia article would necessarily help with exposure though. Unless someone already knows about TMW they're unlikely to just stumble upon the article and want to play the game as a result. Regardless, if people want to try to get on Wikipedia I'll see what I can do.

It'd be nice if we knew about how close to being releasable rEvolt really is, but I get that it's kinda hard to do with a non-centralized volunteer project.

It's impossible to predict. Sometimes nothing happens for weeks, other times more stuff happens in one month than in the past year. It depends on who has time for what and also new/returning contributors. I can tell you what needs to be done before it's ready for release, I can't tell you how long that will take.

As far as getting more people to find TMW, there's a lot that we can do with social media activity and advertisements but there's also a lot of power in what any player can do by simply talking about the game with friends and recommending it.

[Aeuda]

Since you brought it up, what do we need to have done before release? I think I heard someone point to https://gitlab.com/groups/evol/-/milestones . I'm finding Gitlab a bit hard to navigate though; What is the best way to figure out what needs to be done.

[WildX]

Unfortunately I can't keep a constantly up-to-date version of the milestones page that is more user-friendly. The best way to know what needs to be done is to check that page or ask me for a summary.

In summary, we need NPC scripts. The general story is there, but there are many individual NPCs that need to present the actual dialogue and link certain parts of the main story. Extra NPCs just to populate the world would be nice too. Other than that, any help is good from graphics to code to just some good ideas. Talk to devs on Discord/IRC/forums about anything you may be interested in.

[DiamondPython]

Wildx, Do you use Trello? if not, I think it would be a great way to visualize the things to do and done. Also, I would like to talk to you about rEvolt recipes. I made some recipes for Moubootaur legends and Jesusalva directed me to talk to you about making recipes for rEvolt.

Thank you

[WildX]

Trello has been used by devs in the past, but it was quickly abandoned as it didn't really work for them. I opted to get rid of it once and for all because I thought it was taking away from having devs post their work on the forums where it's most accessible to players. We still have that problem because of GitLab, but at least GitLab actually works for developers and is useful. I wish GitLab contributions would be posted to the forums more often, but it's up to individual devs.

Forum threads have shaped a lot of TMW development in the past (I'd say 2006-2010 at its peak) with a lot of input from players, but user-friendly Git stole all the devs' attention

Speaking of using the forums more. For the recipes make a [WIP] either in Content Development if you know what you're doing or Dev Academy if you want some coaching. Also poke me anytime on IRC/Discord and I'll try to reply within reasonable time

[DiamondPython]

Thanks for your reply. I guess I'll keep on a lookout for anything else if I find it.

Also, about recipes, I made some recently, but I'm not sure how different Moubootaur Legends is from rEvolt. Guess I just copy and paste right? And know which recipes to make.