Is Auto-Heal Illegal? (Debate for Whane's code)

[iamWayne]

deleted

[jiks]

Well... difficult question. Normally i would say yes, but in this case (TMW) i have to say no. There is not a good alternative to heal except this script. Sure, the 4144 Patch helps a lot, but it is useless when many player gather together and stack on the same spot. Somebody does alt-1 and nobody knows who it actually was.

There should be an alternative. Like: If someone does a smiley or something like that, a popup over the players face, you as a healer can click on it and heal. Or something like that...

But since there is not another option i would say no and go with "whane code"


Jiks

[Balthazaar]

Well IMO the official rules state that botting is illegal but not auto healing. So if you are using auto healing while you are afk then yes it is illegal. But if you are using auto healing when you are not afk then it is legal just as multiboxing and any other numerous hacks that can be implemented through the client and used. Just don't do it when you are not at your machine just think of it as "can you play arcade games when you are not in the arcade" of course not unless you buy the arcade game and play it at home but then your not at the arcade anymore are you.

However since this game is in pre-alpha status it is my understanding that the magic system that is in use at this point is only for testing. In the future it will be somewhat automatic and have buttons etc for spells therefore I wouldn't spend too much time and effort on it. Unless you are collaborating with Devs on this to see what they have in store otherwise the time and effort and code would become useless eventually.

It would be nice to see this in the future but it brings up another question. The question of fantasy vs realism. I myself think the realism would be nicer where a mage can only heal others (not themselves) and need a certain amount of rest afterwards depending on level before healing the next person. As it seems that healing another would expend a great deal of the mage's energy unless they are very specialized in the healing arts. More like a cleric than a mage. There is a great deal to think about as far as game balance with auto heal.

Off the subject I'd like to see some monsters that regenerate or can heal themselves to make things interesting.

[AcnotAlpha]

As long as I remembered to disable it when AFK, I would certainly like to be able to use this code. It would be much easier to heal well with it. From the rules I've read, they certainly seem to agree with Jiks. As long as you aren't AFK, pretty much anything goes in client mods.

[Balthazaar]

Indeed it seems so and since no other rules or rules for certain circumstances have been agreed upon or implemented since the "No GM test period" I would say you are safe. Just make sure you are not afk and respond when approached by a GM.

However if this constitutes as a bot then it would have to be approved I believe as was done in the past. But I really see no way anyone would know the difference from you healing or using auto heal if in fact you are at the keyboard to respond.

[iamWayne]

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[v0id]

Hi,

Tell me if i'm wrong... Actually, auto-healing means that you heal people automatically without even hitting a key. People who wants to be healed just say a specific keyword or emote and they are healed. So you just stare at your monitor watching your char healing people.

If that's the case, i don't see anything interesting in being a healer anymore. Where is the pleasure of healing someone who has asked for it; that he would have died if you did not cast the spell that quickly; in brief, everything that makes the healing activity interesting...

better put "healing towers" than using that.

[iamWayne]

deleted

[Conroe]

Totally 100% opposed to auto-healing. It negates the purpose of having health points or even a health system. If you can wink fast enough, you will never die. It changes the landscape of the game, given that vit is no longer necessary once there are a sufficient number of auto-healing clients in play. In fact the only real danger in the game will become playing on a map somewhere by yourself.

If something like this was released and became common place, the devs would be forced to balance the laying-on-hands spell to make it so incredibly expensive that only an 80+ mage would have enough mana to even cast the spell.

[Freeyorp101]

(...)to make it so incredibly expensive that only an 80+ mage would have enough mana to even cast the spell.

If such a balancing is ever required, it would be simpler, fairer, and more effective just to increase the cooldown time of the spell, so magi would need to be more selective on whom to cast it on at any one point of time

Currently lay-on-hands has a very low cooldown time (500 milliseconds)

Longer term, the lay-on-hands spell was supposed to restore health to the target at a cost of the casters health, transferring hp from the caster to the target, but the part of the spell that removed the hp from the caster was never added (though other checks are there... the amount of health lay-on-hands spell heals based on how much hp the caster has)

That said, I don't think this penalty will be fixed before the release of level 3 magic, though I'm not entirely sure what the plan is there


---Freeyorp

[Doulos]

The question should be: "Does Auto-Heal Benefit the entire community?" The original appears to be a search for a legal loophole.

Or are we suggesting this code be added to the client? If all players have access to it, then it's not really a legality issue. Otherwise it appears to be one person wanting exceptional code for himself in order to benefit himself in one way or another. If that's the case, it should be considered by the administration with all seriousness -- and then made illegal.

Why would I say such a horrible thing? Because the issue really is: "What will TMW be like once certain individuals fulfill their personal agendas?"

There are discussions right now about minor changes to insignificant weapons like the Scythe (http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8992)... that bring up this response: "How will this affect game balance?" Shouldn't the game's balance be a greater concern than the legality of someone's borderline code?

Totally 100% opposed to auto-healing. It negates the purpose of having health points or even a health system. If you can wink fast enough, you will never die. It changes the landscape of the game, given that vit is no longer necessary once there are a sufficient number of auto-healing clients in play. In fact the only real danger in the game will become playing on a map somewhere by yourself.

If something like this was released and became common place, the devs would be forced to balance the laying-on-hands spell to make it so incredibly expensive that only an 80+ mage would have enough mana to even cast the spell.

Clearly, such a script would introduce an upset to "balance".

[asterix]

It changes the landscape of the game, ....

+1

The legality is a second thing. The first to consider is the balancing. Auto-heal will evidently affect the balancing in no insignificant way which is somewhat settled although not perfectly fine-tuned yet.

Truly it is likely to be useful especially for warriors fighting in a stack because emote-ing will not tell who needs heal. However, that is just a trade-off between such disadvantage and the benefit of stacking.

If auto-heal goes public, players will be reluctant to be archers. There may be only mages who are seeking for magic xps (actually consecutive castings of inma doesn't give magic xps) and warriors for leveling. Anyway I guess the mage market will be very competitive, only tank healers will survive and warriors will reset their stats as having minimum vits. Am I too speculative?

Back to the original question, I personally think auto-healing is NOT illegal unless it is afk auto-healing.

[Dicekid]

Maybe this goes a bit off, but did anyone think about why someone wants to use such things like autoheal? I mean, the player "playing" the game would have nothing to do but sitting in front of his computer and waiting, because the code will do everything. So the question which rises here for me is: "Is this still some kind of "playing" the game?"
For me, playing the game means that I can do something, that I have the control about fighting, healing and there is everytime the risk to die. I know it is a pain if you die in the graveyard (there are miles to go from Hurnscald) but that's the way it is and at least this is the only drawback. So what would it be to just stand around and watching my character doing all the stuff? I think this would be rather stupid and boring, at least for me.
I think one should think about ones attitude to the game when considering code like Auto-Heal.

But back to topic. If I have to judge about legalization of this code, I say that it should be illegal. It's too much an advantage for the code-user compared to the real players. In the end this would lead to the fact that everyone would use the code what would lead to effects which are already posted (balance problems and stuff).
If the developers of the game have something like that in mind, then it maybe will come with the game itself and then this discussion would just be obsolete. If the developers don't want something like this in the game then it should not be legal to use such code as for my understanding it would be something like cheating.

I hope nobody takes this as a personal thing, this is just how I see this debate and all this botting stuff.

Greetings,
Dicekid

[Amuk]

The simple answer is yes it is illegal. Rules state clearly any afk activity is considered botting. I was having a conversation with doorsman and delasia about the use of scripts that could automate killing and the picking up of items, if it would be considered illegal from their point of view IF the user was still at their computer. Being prior GMs of TMW and part of the elite few who actually had some common sense and reasonable judgements I thought they could give some valid input. As they put it, "If your hands are not on the keyboard controlling your characters actions YOU are away from your keyboard and in breach of the no botting rule. I think this answer applies here as well. The use of the auto heal no matter if at your comp or away is illegal. Ofcourse even though it is illegal getting caught and proving it is another story.

The real debate I think should be, although it is illegal should you release it anyways. I say go for it. For one it will help the development team see how such scripts function so if they are really that concerned about it they can find away to patch it (although I am guessing almost anyone of them could write such a script). Second by releasing it you are giving all players the option if they want to use it or not. That way no one has any unfair advantage over the other.

Thirdly I am all about the sharing of information and information is meant to be leaked That is how progress is made.

The only advice I will give you if you do decided to leak it don't do it here! Your post will probably get deleted anyway. Post it on the mana central forum if they will allow it or I'll post it for you on the manabuzz. That way you will have no worries about the ability of your code being downloaded.

EDIT - PS that cartoon is flippin' comical!

[Balthazaar]

This debate seems to be over as Dev's and GM's agree patching your client is legal as long as you are at the keyboard. See link below. Again YOU MUST BE AT THE KEYBOARD TO ANSWER AT ALL TIMES WHEN ACTIVE.

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... &hilit=bot

Now the debate of releasing ones code is something else rather entirely. It seems it would be up to the person who spent the time coding it whether they want to release it or not.

But I suggest taking this into consideration before releasing anything to the mass public here. The huge amount of time that it will consume by posting it, ex: getting lots of emails and PM's from people who don't know how to implement a patch etc and having to teach them. Plus the many non computer savy individuals here that will not know how to read a doc and follow it to understand how it works. That is if it has a doc that is maintained or not otherwise everyone will be seeking you out to explain it to them. Not to mention updates when things break due to client changes. Oh almost forgot versions for other OS's if it isn't cross compatible.

Unless of course you release it and abandon it but you will still get the whispers and private messages I would guess.

All in all I believe in the free exchange of information but code is up to the individual that put the time and effort into creating it. Code is not information per say it is commands and functions and data linked together to produce some kinda end result. It is each developers choice but do consider game balance and your own peace and quiet in game before you make your decision here.

I would also recommend talking to the current administration here (platyna) to see if there are any changes or not in standing on the matter.