Power of lightning spell
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Re: Power of lightning spell
Has anyone suggested the idea that:
lightning max damage * (player level+1)% = actual damage
Not sure what the exact max damage of lightning is with the best equipped outfit but let's assume 800. So someone who has just reached level 57 wearing the items that give him 800 damage potentially and can max int to 99 can only do:
800*58% = 464 damage rather than the full 800.
That means only when you're at lvl 99 can you do the max 800 damage. This actual damage is the average because you don't hit 800 damage every hit.
lightning max damage * (player level+1)% = actual damage
Not sure what the exact max damage of lightning is with the best equipped outfit but let's assume 800. So someone who has just reached level 57 wearing the items that give him 800 damage potentially and can max int to 99 can only do:
800*58% = 464 damage rather than the full 800.
That means only when you're at lvl 99 can you do the max 800 damage. This actual damage is the average because you don't hit 800 damage every hit.
"Every problem is an opportunity in disguise..." Inara, Firefly
- Freeyorp101
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Re: Power of lightning spell
Character stat effects (mainly max hp and physical damage reduction) need a lot of reworking for PvP to be fair.
---Freeyorp
---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
Re: Power of lightning spell
I meant this idea for all cases of lightning not just pvp.
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- Freeyorp101
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Re: Power of lightning spell
PvE is already workable. There are some monsters that magi are more effective against, and some monsters that warriors are more effective against. This is done better in the graveyard and swamp than in other areas, as most mid level monsters are the former. For PvE, lightning damage is not the problem.
---Freeyorp
---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
Re: Power of lightning spell
I voted leave it alone +1 freeyorp
Re: Power of lightning spell
The spell is perfect if there is more group-based PvP, also I think with the damage mages take if they want to do a good amount of damage, it is quite fair that mages have a powerful spell like lightning.
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- Big Crunch
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Re: Power of lightning spell
i think pvp would be better if the arena were an open air arena that would allow the casting of kaflosh, considering kaflosh is the balance to ingrav. It would force the mages to think before just automatically casting ingrav. We might see more summons and flar then. Of course warriors would have to disarmor to some degree to cast it. It would also give archers more of a chance.
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Re: Power of lightning spell
Lighting is very powerful.
At lvl 55 I can spec archer or warrior but I can't hit skulls. Same lvl as a mage and I hit them like a truck.
I don't think lighting it to powerful I think that warrior and archer as underpowered as a result of having to spend to many points in different fields.
I think this could be fixed with adding stat modifiers to existing warrior/archer type gear. If they didn't have to spend so many points on DEX or STR or VIT that could free them up to add more points in say AGI for faster attacks or luck for crits.
At lvl 55 I can spec archer or warrior but I can't hit skulls. Same lvl as a mage and I hit them like a truck.
I don't think lighting it to powerful I think that warrior and archer as underpowered as a result of having to spend to many points in different fields.
I think this could be fixed with adding stat modifiers to existing warrior/archer type gear. If they didn't have to spend so many points on DEX or STR or VIT that could free them up to add more points in say AGI for faster attacks or luck for crits.
MerlinX420
Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music. Has anybody seen this princess I'm looking for?
Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music. Has anybody seen this princess I'm looking for?
- mistergrey
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Re: Power of lightning spell
I agree with that last comment: armor with slight stat boosts for warriors and archers could go a long way towards making PvE more fair to everyone. While there are no items that raise one's INT, there are a number of items that give bonuses to magic attack (ie: circlet, skull mask, scarab armlet). It might help the issue someone mentioned, how warriors archers have to split their stats further than mages, to add some bonuses to dexterity or hit%, even vitality (which would be awesome on archer gear, since vitality is kind of every archer's downfall.)
Also, just a silly opinion: It's true that mages can be rather good early on, with nothing but INT. To me it kind of balances out in a weird way though: Warriors and Archers start out not very powerful, but that is balanced by the heavy armor they can wear to block out damage (not to mention they don't need to do a quest to be able to deal damage, or spend much money lol). A mage will be able to hit hard early on once s/he's learned magic, but with limited stats armor is out of the question. At higher levels, warriors and archers gain some power/speed to their attacks, on top of them having better defense potential (though yes, archers usually neglect vit). A mage on the other hand, usually will focus the extra stat points available into luck, or vitality to fix the defense gap (since betsanc with no armor/vitality can be rather pointless).
Okay, and my brain's empty.
Also, just a silly opinion: It's true that mages can be rather good early on, with nothing but INT. To me it kind of balances out in a weird way though: Warriors and Archers start out not very powerful, but that is balanced by the heavy armor they can wear to block out damage (not to mention they don't need to do a quest to be able to deal damage, or spend much money lol). A mage will be able to hit hard early on once s/he's learned magic, but with limited stats armor is out of the question. At higher levels, warriors and archers gain some power/speed to their attacks, on top of them having better defense potential (though yes, archers usually neglect vit). A mage on the other hand, usually will focus the extra stat points available into luck, or vitality to fix the defense gap (since betsanc with no armor/vitality can be rather pointless).
Okay, and my brain's empty.
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Re: Power of lightning spell
About the mages having to do a quest to be able to do lightning, this is really insignificant. Arguably to get the platebody armour or steel shield you have to do the iron ore + infantry helm -> armour "quest" or that archers have to (optionally if they don't notice the Snow Town shop) do the infinite logs quest. It's a moot point, considering most people intend to do all the quests anyway.
I still think lightning is too powerful even for player vs monster because lightning is 100% (REAL) accuracy thus monopolizing ALL monster's XP and drops if you spend even a small amount of time getting iron ores->powder etc. However since it's relatively harder to get money now and less people are buying ores so there are less pure lightning users, I am less inclined to start an anti-lightning crusade.
I still think lightning is too powerful even for player vs monster because lightning is 100% (REAL) accuracy thus monopolizing ALL monster's XP and drops if you spend even a small amount of time getting iron ores->powder etc. However since it's relatively harder to get money now and less people are buying ores so there are less pure lightning users, I am less inclined to start an anti-lightning crusade.
"Every problem is an opportunity in disguise..." Inara, Firefly
- mistergrey
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Re: Power of lightning spell
While you do have a point, one could argue that while a warrior can buy a steel shield and the harder to get armor items off another player, a mage cannot buy magic level 2 and bypass all the annoying steps in between . Still, I agree, it's not a super difficult price to pay. There is also the constant need for more iron ore, which can cost considerably more than even a good supply of iron arrows. Really, the accuracy thing is the only argument that I can't refute totally. The way I see it, the problem isn't that magic has 100% accuracy, since an archer with high dex can easily hit anything in the game aside from jackos and skulls (especially since for a mage, missing with magic would probably equal instant death against a tough monster). The issue is more that even with 99 dexterity one can have a hard time hitting jackos and skulls, though I'm a bit fuzzy on how hard. I'll hafta check it out haha.
<Mistakes> you are too difficult to trollTiana wrote: I apologize if I gave anyone the impression that BC is the troll-king of the GM's. That title is rightfully held by mrgrey
<Frost> Germans have Chess Boxing. English have Cheese Racing.
<Frost> I'm slightly terrified what the Russians consider violent sport.
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<Jaxad0127> YOu can't grab yourself.
<Jaxad0127> Elenore explicitly prevents it.
<Mistakes> speak for yourself
Re: Power of lightning spell
You're right about the cost of using lightning now so I've stopped complaining about lightning users now but I think what I proposed awhile ago (a few posts back) would have been more than appropriate.
Where if you're level 57 (when you can max int to 99) you can do 57(+1)=58% of the total max damage of lightning. Assuming this max damage is 800 then that means the lightning user can do around (800*58%) 464 max damage without EVER missing. This is much higher than even an archer at lvl 99. When the mage gets another level he can do more % of the 800 damage so at level 99 the mage can do 800 damage max (99+1=100%).
The similarity between mage and archer is that they're both ranged. You do not insta-die when there is a high damaging monster around and you run out of iron powder. You move to avoid getting hit, leave to get more or switch to forest bow etc. You should be aware of how many resources you have left, for example I was surprised when someone didn't think of having their arrows on the shortcut bar to see how many arrows left they had. Any mage can do the same for iron powder. My point is that mages are not completely useless without lightning, it's just their signature attack.
Something else to think about. What happens when magic levels 3-5 come out? Will they just be completely unstoppable? Lightning needs to be expensive like it is now and it needs to be nuked for whatever new uber magic attack comes out in the future.
Where if you're level 57 (when you can max int to 99) you can do 57(+1)=58% of the total max damage of lightning. Assuming this max damage is 800 then that means the lightning user can do around (800*58%) 464 max damage without EVER missing. This is much higher than even an archer at lvl 99. When the mage gets another level he can do more % of the 800 damage so at level 99 the mage can do 800 damage max (99+1=100%).
The similarity between mage and archer is that they're both ranged. You do not insta-die when there is a high damaging monster around and you run out of iron powder. You move to avoid getting hit, leave to get more or switch to forest bow etc. You should be aware of how many resources you have left, for example I was surprised when someone didn't think of having their arrows on the shortcut bar to see how many arrows left they had. Any mage can do the same for iron powder. My point is that mages are not completely useless without lightning, it's just their signature attack.
Something else to think about. What happens when magic levels 3-5 come out? Will they just be completely unstoppable? Lightning needs to be expensive like it is now and it needs to be nuked for whatever new uber magic attack comes out in the future.
"Every problem is an opportunity in disguise..." Inara, Firefly
- mistergrey
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Re: Power of lightning spell
Agreed, and your idea is actually pretty good. But, if they nuke the damage of lightning, only to make the new magic lvl 3 attack into the new lightning for people to complain about, it won't solve anything to be realistic.
Ideally, a couple of things would fix this situation, or at least help: Better gear for warriors/archers to compensate for magic lvl 3 when it comes out... Tougher monsters, so that the new magic and potential gear don't just decimate all creatures instantly with no challenge (or monster rebalancing, of course)... Either way, as things stand now, lightning is pretty fair, except against jackos and skulls lol, in terms of damage vs cost/time.
Still, hopefully by the time magic lvl 3 is around to be an issue, some kind of solution/compromise will be thought up.
Ideally, a couple of things would fix this situation, or at least help: Better gear for warriors/archers to compensate for magic lvl 3 when it comes out... Tougher monsters, so that the new magic and potential gear don't just decimate all creatures instantly with no challenge (or monster rebalancing, of course)... Either way, as things stand now, lightning is pretty fair, except against jackos and skulls lol, in terms of damage vs cost/time.
Still, hopefully by the time magic lvl 3 is around to be an issue, some kind of solution/compromise will be thought up.
<Mistakes> you are too difficult to trollTiana wrote: I apologize if I gave anyone the impression that BC is the troll-king of the GM's. That title is rightfully held by mrgrey
<Frost> Germans have Chess Boxing. English have Cheese Racing.
<Frost> I'm slightly terrified what the Russians consider violent sport.
<o11c> chatroulette
<Jaxad0127> YOu can't grab yourself.
<Jaxad0127> Elenore explicitly prevents it.
<Mistakes> speak for yourself
- Freeyorp101
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Re: Power of lightning spell
Magi are more effective against skulls and JackOs, this is intended, just as warriors and archers are more effective elsewhere.Freeyorp wrote:PvE is already workable. There are some monsters that magi are more effective against, and some monsters that warriors are more effective against. This is done better in the graveyard and swamp than in other areas, as most mid level monsters are the former. For PvE, lightning damage is not the problem.
Simply comparing effectiveness against a very restricted selection of monsters will not balance the game. Where every playstyle is equally effective against all monsters with no difference in attack then there is no point in having different playstyles.
Mid-range monsters could certainly use some alterations, but it's not as game-breakingly bad as some people try to make out.
---
For PvP, there is indeed a serious problem. I'll quote the solution here again. All other "solutions" I have ever read would indeed be faster to implement, but do not address the core problem, and quick hackfixes have a sad tendency to stick, so I must insist that this is fixed properly rather than adding another layer of hacks to an already more than unstable stack of quickfixes and workarounds.
Even then, it's not completely uncounterable. The barrier spell causes a massive amount of magic damage reduction (more than it should; this should be nerfed hard once the proper max hp and physical damage reduction fixes are complete and out).Freeyorp wrote:Character stat effects (mainly max hp and physical damage reduction) need a lot of reworking for PvP to be fair.
tl;dr: In its current state there is an obscene focus on damage reduction. Characters need a larger hp pool so that more standard combat can occur without the insistence of reducing all incoming damage to the single digit range.
---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
Re: Power of lightning spell
Just read your lightning post. I'm sorry you had to repost. I did read it last time but since it was awhile I forgot about your previous response. Anyway this last post makes it much clearer about the intention for the future of the game and players having more HP is a better idea. I always did wonder why some monsters have so much more HP.
"Every problem is an opportunity in disguise..." Inara, Firefly