Ideas for fixing inflation

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thorset
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by thorset »

ok here´s my ideas for fixing inflaction:

1. Make Casino Coins,a One Way object, you can buy it, from NPC`s , but you cant sell it back. (ok, so now people cant
hide their richness so easily).

2. Casino Coins will be a semi-rare item you cant, sell to npcs, and that can only be obtained in one place, in all the mana word: tulishmar.

3. Why would people buy them, if you cant sell them back, well, now prizes for gambling, will be very rare, items at a cost of lots of casino coins, there will be NO gp prizes,

4. there will be a limit of casino coins you can buy, per month, a very strict limit, the rest of coins you have to win them gambling.

5.casino coins will be the new reference coin for players economy, gps will remain as a coin, for buying selling with npcs,
thus, npcs wont acept casino coins, and people wont be allowed to trade gps.

6. separating coins, will separete economis, making the truly free market, players economy, less afected by
all the errors made by devs, in the npc, "desinged economy".

7. coins will have a devaluation spell (insert backstory), the will last one month, the first 10 days, as gold coins, the
next 10 as silver coins, the last 10 days as bronce coins, then they will banish into air.

8.the count will start from the latest 10, each time a player buys/sells that coins.

9. anti devaluation, spell methods, will be available, for a very high costs.

10. banks will save coins from spell devaluation, if you promise not to take the money away within
some period.

11. the transport to go to the bank will be VERY expensive.
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Acegi
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Acegi »

Actually the casino coin thing can be solved by keeping all casino coins in the casino room. IE, as soon as you leave all the casino coins you hold will be converted to GP. The issue that is harder to control is people dumping money into mules or second/third/etc accounts to hide wealth.
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Habari
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Habari »

...........
Last edited by Habari on 03 Sep 2010, 17:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Crush
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Crush »

Habari wrote:also, would be very nice, if the client, didnt allowed opening multiple intansces at the same time
of the program tmw, that way, muling would be harder
The Mana client is open source. You can't rely on any client-sided precaution.
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mistergrey
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by mistergrey »

Okay, first of all: How does it cause economic issues because someone can hide their money as casino coins? I know it allows people a way to hide from checks of how much money they have, but really that's not a reason for problems.

Second of all: Forbidding muling would be both extremely unnecessary, and impossible to enforce, not to mention ridiculous. Again, you're implying that hiding your money leads to having too much, which is not the case. It would be very hard, and time consuming, to forbid and enforce, since in some cases more than one person has an account on TMW, if not a couple of accounts. It's also a waste of time to expect strict regulations and big changes to be made to money and casino money - Most of the developers are working on the new server, and the ones working on this one are working on other things like new content.

Last issue with what you said: Make it harder to get currency? It is very time consuming already to make good money fast in this game, especially since bat drops are worth less now. Most of the crazy money comes from a minority of players who have a lot. This money goes back and forth, usually in trade for very rare items. The prices of those items, being unobtainable, are totally up to the players who have them. Therefore, making it harder to get money won't make anybody but the new players suffer, since it will take them a LOT of grinding before they can even afford decent equipment.

And, end of rant/debate :P. *** Most of this was in response to the changes Habari claimed needed to be made *** lol. Just pointing out that most of these would only result in regular players being penalized for no reason, and a lot more work for the ones working on this server.
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Acegi
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Acegi »

Hiding money fogs up knowing whether 1 person or 20 is rich or not and works around setting a level based tax system. I'm not for a tax system anyway so this doesn't bother me. I think the idea of mules/extra accounts annoys people because you can't immediately recognise someone however this is a different topic.

As for the people deemed "rich" how does this really affect new players? The unobtainables are unobtainable and hold no real massively cheaty stat values anyway. If you want to make it fair for new players in regards to obtaining these rares then put it in a shop, as some people have said earlier this will set a baseline value and cap prices from increasing above it.

It is INEVITABLE that older players and more regular players will be richer than newer and lazier players and this should be taken into account when introducing new items into the game. Just like marketing in real life, who is the target market for Item A? Balancing an item's worth right now is far more important towards having a stable economy than stopping the richest person in the game making 1trillion trillion googol gp. As I've said before there are too many items and too little uses for them. It's an item's worth that decides how the economy goes.
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Speiros01
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Speiros01 »

iceslice wrote:price of items can be tracked down like what happens in share markets. But trades with multiple items OR 0gp i.e. gifts shouldnt be counted. That way we can get average price list of items one by one.
And instead of calculating income on character basis do it on per account basis. And apply tax amount based on policy or percentage.

Still doubt the applicability :oops:
THERE'S an idea mate!! An NPC who gives the estimated prices of items, and sells them at prices that people are willing to sell at. Sorta averages the price like the stock market. Doesn't make it an outright rule, but works as a guide for buyers and sellers alike.

Different people sell things. When it goes for sale, the item is registered, counted, and averaged against all the other items, giving a market value. It can be useful for anyone who wants to sell or buy. If their price is higher, the market goes up. If it is lower, it goes down. Could even have a demand list, showing how much stock is moved on an average of say a week.
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alastrim
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by alastrim »

I don't know... If it is possible to do such thing, I think maybe there will be a lot of "mule-mule" trades of rares and good items using the minimum price, so the average will not be a reliable information.
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Speiros01 »

That maybe true, but if they were to sell to each other on the minimal price, then a buyer is aware of what price is 'acceptable' to pay. If the mules did it on the maximum price, this could be analysed as to why they were trading at a maximum price, and patterns could be observed. If they were trading to make the price higher, it could be evident by the trading figures. It would start to make an average figure, which would bring the extremes of price down to one level, then the level could be brought down by analysing the amount of genuine trades between people. Statistically, the information that could be used could become a ratio, and like in the real world, the price could be amended to trends.

Mind you, this is getting complex for a game where we come on and have fun. I think it all relates to the issue of having only one account each, which could be impossible to enforce. If we didn't have people competing, there'd be no drama, as well as if we didn't have people with their automations going, there would be no major dramas between players. Also, I personally have way more than one account, although I rarely use the others. One is my main, and I have a secondary. Any others are for silly ideas, such as 'flocks' of people, and teams, like the brady bunch and happy days, or something like that.
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Merlin »

DarkWater wrote:Why I said scam not scheme. A scheme is a system to defraud in an open economy. An scam is one person making money at the expense of another. We just have a pyramid scam which all the money filters up. But it is what we are dealing with.
Welcome to the real world. Happens in real life just as it does in the game. It will always be this way. It will always be that way in game and in life, no amount of complaining will fix that. Should I be complaining to the US government because I can't afford that new camero or w/e when the elitiest rich can. I didn't think so. I don't see a big problem with the economy except that there is to much gold out there "supposedly". I however find this not true in the actual game. Alot of ppl that have been playing for years dont have the 30kk for one of those new hats. I have seen maybe 4 ppl with them.

"All I hear is blah blah blah, I'm going to complain because i can't afford a rare because people want to much"
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Acegi
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Acegi »

Tempted to quote myself from a few posts up but essentially what MerlinX420 said. There will always be richer + poorer players, those that grind/hunt loads those that don't play a lot or just sit and chat.

Besides, the characters with large amounts of cash are quite likely to be clan mules who are for all intents and purposes effectively neutral. (Assuming someone doesn't create a clan just for their own selfish reasons...)
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Speiros01
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Speiros01 »

Here is an idea to fix inflation.

Leave it alone. It is a game. Why stress over silly trivialities, when a game is for fun?

By the way, I am selling an acorn for 10kk. Is this wrong?
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Cecil Burrow
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Cecil Burrow »

I have to admit that I am still mystified by this whole discussion.

In what sense is there too much money in the game? One problem that some people talk about is that some rares are going for truly catastrophic prices. I don't see how this is a problem, though I've never really coveted rare items. A more serious problem that some have mentioned is that low level characters can obtain full warrior's armor too easily. This indeed is a problem. But as others have noted, this didn't used to be the case; the way people used to get money was grinding red slimes, and this took a lot of time. As long as money is relatively hard to get (like it used to be), there won't be a problem. Some have mentioned that it's easy to get 100,000 in an hour or so. How? If so, that's the problem that needs to be solved -- and perhaps can be solved easily.

My worry is that by requiring expensive ferry rides to get around, etc., we have simply made the game more tedious and boring, especially for lower level players, but even for higher level players. It's perhaps not a co-incidence that the number of people playing seems to have gone down significantly.

So what -really- is the problem with the level of money in the game? If we can get agreement on what the problem is, then I believe it should be easy to find a solution. I think the present solutions are bad, insofar as they detract from the quality of the game. Trying to force the wealthy players to lose some money by making the game boring is not a good approach, and I think it's worth reflecting on this.
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Cecil Burrow »

Just as a follow-up, I would like to point out that the cost of ferry-rides disproportionately affects lower level characters, who are more likely to need to move from town to town, rather than higher level characters, who tend to stay in Hurnscald. I therefore doubt that ferry rides could ever be especially effective in solving the 'problem' of higher level characters having too much money; and it is difficult to see how making the game more boring for lower level characters is a good way of tackling a problem with higher level characters.

I've also found that I am much less likely to wander from town to town because of the expense. I actually used to like wandering to Hurnscald to help noobs, etc., but I simply don't do this anymore because of the expense. (I can't keep traveling indefinitely, after all, without having to grind some monster or other to start paying for travel expenses.) So the game has become a little less fun for me, and noobs are presumably less likely to be helped out. The whole thing seems like a lose-lose to me.

Finally, it is worth noting that the reports of in-game money seem to show relatively little progress in removing money from the game; or at least, progress seems to have stalled. This is all the more reason for reflecting on the situation and trying to decide how to proceed from here.
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Re: Ideas for fixing inflation

Post by Lt. KLAG [24th.KDF] »

Cecil Burrow wrote:I have to admit that I am still mystified by this whole discussion. [...]
So what -really- is the problem with the level of money in the game?
If we can get agreement on what the problem is, then I believe it should be easy to find a solution.
I totally agree with your vision Cecil : we are at least 2 members of the select TMW Royal Mystified Club here.

Considering that a great part of excessive money in game came from nowadays fixed bugs (list will be graciously provided upon request),
I guess we can admit "it" as an Infantile Capitalism Disease sequel :
next Coming Serious Revolution will solve the trouble once it encounters a final success.

Let us be patient enough while watching the usual "economical history process" doing a fine job at fixing inflation ... 8)
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