Ideas for fixing inflation

[Crush]

I merged this thread with "What is the idea behind 'the economy' on the game?" on player talk because they are essentially the same topic.

[alastrim]

The money's concentrated in a few high-level players. What do high-level players spend their money on? Hats!

Simply setup an NPC vendor that sells a few hideously expensive and otherwise unobtainable hats and the problem should sort itself out.

Heck, if the price increased for every hat sold, large amounts of money would sink.

That is the better idea I have heard about the subject. The game needed some of the modifications, like lowering the price of the bat wings and teeth, but if things get too difficult it will only make the game worse, and the high level players that concentrate the money will continue with incredible amounts of money with nothing to spend on(except maybe some potions and food).

[DarkWater]

Why I said scam not scheme. A scheme is a system to defraud in an open economy. An scam is one person making money at the expense of another. We just have a pyramid scam which all the money filters up. But it is what we are dealing with.

[DarkWater]

The money's concentrated in a few high-level players. What do high-level players spend their money on? Hats!

Simply setup an NPC vendor that sells a few hideously expensive and otherwise unobtainable hats and the problem should sort itself out.

Heck, if the price increased for every hat sold, large amounts of money would sink.

the only problem you will turn this into a money race. Everyone will only focus on money. You need to have quests for rares, and gathering money to pay the bills.

[iceslice]

Right now I got around 2million gp. Few rares as gift & from events.
I hope I wont talk biased

Well, to my eyes trying to kill inflation is a bit pointless. Say you are trying to reduce gp from a rich player. So what ?
Rich players will always try to stay rich. & poor players will try to be rich. Business is as usual.
Going against inflation is actually like diversifying the game. Better you concentrate on quests or so.

[Crush]

Why I said scam not scheme. A scheme is a system to defraud in an open economy. An scam is one person making money at the expense of another. We just have a pyramid scam which all the money filters up. But it is what we are dealing with.

Just a personal question: Do you remember that you ever used the words "I was wrong"? Admitting errors does not make you appear weaker. It is a sign of strength and maturity.

I mean it's not like I corrected you about something which really matters here.

[DarkWater]

I am sorry there is a difference between scheme and scam. But ok, I was wrong.

What I should have said is themanaworld is broken into a set of ultra elites (top), elites (middle), and the zoo (bottom).

The ultra elites answer to themselves, the elites answer to the ultra elites, and the zoo get screwed by everyone. Once the money leaves the zoo (bottom) it is usually moved upward to the top (ultra elites) in a series of scams (price fixing, mass botting, elitist world views, ect...).

This whole thing looks like a pyramid in which the only goal of those high in the pyramid is to scam(see above) those below them.

As oppose to pyramid scheme which is with out service or product.


But ok, the problem is the problem. We need to think of solutions.

[iceslice]

Applying taxation on rich players isnt a bad idea. It'll make things a bit more realistic & will reduce economic divide a bit among players.

[Crush]

Applying taxation on rich players isnt a bad idea. It'll make things a bit more realistic & will reduce economic divide a bit among players.

Unfortunately there isn't a way to do it which can not be circumvented by dividing your money on multiple characters or investing it into items. Or can you think of one?

[iceslice]

price of items can be tracked down like what happens in share markets. But trades with multiple items OR 0gp i.e. gifts shouldnt be counted. That way we can get average price list of items one by one.
And instead of calculating income on character basis do it on per account basis. And apply tax amount based on policy or percentage.

Still doubt the applicability

[DarkWater]

Applying taxation on rich players isnt a bad idea. It'll make things a bit more realistic & will reduce economic divide a bit among players.

Unfortunately there isn't a way to do it which can not be circumvented by dividing your money on multiple characters or investing it into items. Or can you think of one?

Items can not be divided. Which means that you just tax the value of the items. Tophats sell for on average of x, then 1% tax on x for a tophat. It does not have to be actual value. But predetermine one based on set values. For example. Tophat tax value can be 1,000 gp a year, if you do not pay the tax you lose the item. If I was to guess, creating a script to look at all storage, add up all the item values and place a marker for tax value would be easy.

Force taxing should always be the last resort.

There is one huge problem with the current game. To make proper sinks, you need a massive amount of stuff to sink on.

I am making a list on items that are great sinks, including, socket items, magic imbuing, renting npcs, and my personal favorite a buying and owning property.

[Rotonen]

People still expect reasonable returns on their investments.

A taxation system would only be a demotivator (I earn money but it is automatically eaten away for no gain). In real life you at least get something done with your taxes. Whether that something is useful or not depends on a lot of things off-topic here.

[Big Crunch]

I think that an npc sellining all 'rares' would eliminate a lot of the problems. Set the prices high to maintain the feeling of exclusivity, while making a hard cap on prices. The price of rares would never go up, tberfore making hoarding and reselling a futile exercise, while still giving a lofty goal to aim for. After the release of a new item via special quest, wait about three months and release it on the exotic trader. My $.02

[DarkWater]

Rotonen, I forget that some people here are not americans. Americans fully expect no return on their taxes. But joking aside. The work done by the developers to bring new content to the server is no different then fixing roads or building new schools. Taxes are away to balance the system in game and a way to redistribute wealth in real life. There is no difference. Any returns on taxes can be seen as developers creating new stuff and the public being able to keep ultra rares in a open system.

If you do not tax, then bc is right. All of the rares need to have a hard cap set in price and buyable from an npc. This will make the economy stall and lock inflation to a real price. Governments around the world do this all the time; corn, wheat, petrol, and any other commodity good.

The only real way to fight inflation is to make sure there is way more stuff then anyone could possibly buy. Until then, it is either taxes or removal of ultra rares. I know that ultra rares are way some people play this game. I understand that, but if you want to keep the game playable. Right now, those are the to choices.

Arikel has a fun game. A random drawing. You pay 1k to a npc. The npc random drawing one item from a list and gives it to you.
If you did this type of raffle. 10k for anything from a arrow to a monster skull hat, could work as a good money sink.

[Wombat]

..and my personal favorite a buying and owning property.

Here goes something that could be worked out with this idea. These are just example images and a rough idea, open to changing.

In the existing town idea, some lots are for sale, some houses are for sale and some lots/houses are not for sale.
In the new town idea, all lots are for sale.

To make this happen it would need the collaboration of: 1 Tiled player-contributor who can make map patches to git and update the wiki once a month specifically for this project, 1 GM to certify and coordinate purchases. The player-contributor would be an architect for the players while the GM would notarize and extract the appropriate zeny, then inform the player-contributor to "build" a patch to include the purchased area with what is built on it. The player-contributor would maintain a public map on the wiki of property and who owns what while the GM sign all statements on lot/housing ownership (land deeds) on the wiki to ensure honesty.

For interior maps, each 32x32 pixel square would cost something depending on the decoration used and could only be up to the maximum size their lot purchase affords them.

It is both a little simple and a little complex, but would need a minimum of a GM and a player-contributor with Tiled, wiki and some image manipulation skills as well as a desire to administrate player deeds.