Forming a beta testing team

[Alige]

pretty scripters feel too good to test their scripts and to proud to ask testers to do the job.

If you're so clever, please develop the game yourself. Work doesn't come without mistakes.

Now, I know I am the developer who actually added this problem and I would like people who lost an orange towel to get one back. So if an admin could connect in game and create 4 orange hitchhiker's towels (afaik 4 lost only), it would be good since I will make sure the player will get them back if given to me. If you don't trust me, then too bad.

Ali.

[Derpella]

What's wrong with making a beta-testers team? Is it insulting everything good you've ever done?

[Crush]

What's wrong with making a beta-testers team?

Thank you for volunteering for this job. When will your team be ready?

There were once four brothers: Everyone, Someone, Anyone and Noone. They had a very important task to do. Everyone was sure that Someone will do it. Anyone could have done it, but Noone did it in the end. Someone was angry because it'd have been Everyone's job. Everyone thought that Anyone could have done it, but Noone realized that Noone will do it in the end. In the end, Everyone was angry at Someone because Noone did what Anyone could've done.

[Derpella]

Actually, I would happily volunteer. So Nard, taree, and few other people from CRC. Even if it would make us nobodies. But everyone knows nobody's perfect, so it's OK with me.

[Alige]

Actually, I would happily volunteer. So Nard, taree, and few other people from CRC. Even if it would make us no ones.

I was nobody for 3 years: I updated the wiki for three years before getting the system operator status. So I'm pretty sure it doesn't hurt anyone to do things and don't be thanked after.

Regards,
Ali.

[Nard]

pretty scripters feel too good to test their scripts and to proud to ask testers to do the job.

If you're so clever, please develop the game yourself. Work doesn't come without mistakes.

Now, I know I am the developer who actually added this problem and I would like people who lost an orange towel to get one back. So if an admin could connect in game and create 4 orange hitchhiker's towels (afaik 4 lost only), it would be good since I will make sure the player will get them back if given to me. If you don't trust me, then too bad.

Ali.

As I already said nobody can be blamed for making errors. But pushing a script or code change with no testing, when you have the means to do it, is more than a mistake. I was an am among the rare ones who thanked developers for their job, you in particular (and not only for the wiki).

[Jenalya]

What's wrong with making a beta-testers team? Is it insulting everything good you've ever done?

You can find information about our public testserver here: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 71#p110771
It tracks our development repository and has the purpose to provide a possibilty for testing content before it reaches the main server, especially for people who don't have a local testserver and local client-data.
There are several topcis where testing were requested.
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 13&t=13765
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 13&t=14154
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 13&t=14050
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 13&t=14034

While the topic about the new quest got a lot of responses, all the other ones which are probably less interesting didn't get any response at all. I don't know how many people visit the testserver to try things, but don't give any usable feedback to the devs.
We're very happy about people willing to test, but we can't do more than offer the possibilty and advertise it, which I do whenever there's a fitting occasion.

There weren't requests for testing lately because the development was focused on the Christmas event which isn't put on the public testserver to avoid spoilers. But we have some testers (devs and players) to catch bugs before release.
After the event the development will go back to the regular projects, meaning the barbarian quest next, after that mainly Thermin, Barbarian Village and some smaller projects. There will be other topics requesting help with testing, you're very welcome to participate.

[Derpella]

i think, that just as Crush said, we need consistent team with precise members, leaders, goals and scheduled reports, and, from the other side, those people should have informations what is changed, and, the most important, all the changes should actually be on that server before being implemented on main one. I think Nard be will interested in organizing everything, if not, I can.

[Crush]

Discussion split from http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 12&t=15151

[Wombat]

I've scouted a team several times, so if there are actual volunteers, all the merrier. Please come on #tmw-dev irc.themanaworld.org to discuss details.

Note: We operate with asychronous chat and make take some time to respond, given our different time zones and time patterns.

[Bertram]

Hi,

Speaking of that, can I also ask the team to beta-test the next client release when it will come out?
(Since it's something like a week away from me being ready.)

Best regards,

[Nard]

I've scouted a team several times, so if there are actual volunteers, all the merrier. Please come on #tmw-dev irc.themanaworld.org to discuss details.
Note: We operate with asychronous chat and make take some time to respond, given our different time zones and time patterns.

Please tune up your violins! When I come #tmw-dev to report a bug the following happens:

[21:12:17] <Nard_> Hello :/
[21:13:07] <Nard_> Has anybody heard about a problem with hitchhiker's towels?
[21:13:35] <cody> No, you have to tell it.
[21:13:54] <irukard> now I sing APC
[21:14:17] <Nard_> My orange one has just been replaced by an orange after I used it to warp to GY
[21:14:35] <irukard> Nard_: to be honest, you posted your problem on forums
[21:15:08] <irukard> but here no one really cares, wait for official statement on forums
[21:15:17] <Nard_> I did not, do you mean I have to?
[21:15:17] <Lizandra> your towel was replaced by an orange?
[21:15:27] <Nard_> yes
[21:15:29] <irukard> we are developers not towels searchers
[...]
[21:18:13] <Nard_> now if you don't think I'm serious wait for other complaints
[21:18:53] <irukard> Nard_: I really do not care about sinking boat called eAthena server
[21:19:02] <irukard> I never did
[21:19:22] <Nard_> then what are you doing here?
[21:19:43] <irukard> developing content for CR1 purpose
[...]
[21:20:56] <irukard> Nard_ should inform server admins about this accident not devs
[21:21:02] <Nard_> Mr BC I came here to report a bug, not to be laughed at
[21:21:21] <BigCrunch> nard, there is a post on the forums pertaining to oddness regarding Hitchhiker's Towels
[21:21:25] <irukard> Nard_: bug reporting system is Mantis
[21:21:49] <BigCrunch> I would recommend you post on the forum first, then report the bug via Mantis
[21:21:58] <irukard> Nard_: if you want to help us resolve problem please post a solution
[21:22:48] <Nard_> one person says to report on mantis , the second says to report here, the thitd on forum, whom am I supposed to believe?
[21:22:55] <BigCrunch> me
[21:23:04] <BigCrunch> i recommend the forum and mantis
[21:23:16] <BigCrunch> for maximum potential resolution
[21:23:29] <Nard_> or Jen, or Freeyorp, or o11c,
[21:23:34] <Nard_> ????
[21:23:48] <PjotrOrial> just highlight those and put it here
[21:24:26] <BigCrunch> ignore irukard he needs more triticale in his diet he's grumpy

There are a lot volunteers to help :Okurweniec, Derpella, Knight, Johanne, taree, CrazyK8e, Vreality.... Now, if you are interested in having a testers team I would suggest the following:
first improve the bug reporting system. It is not obvious and #tmw-dev seems to be used sometimes as #tmw-cafe. and we don't want to have any remarks from people who can practice dev abuse in game and don't care about the actual server.
With Big Crunch I would suggest Forums AND Mantis. http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 6&start=22. (o11c pointed out that categories could be simplified). I would suggest a wiki page on bug reporting as soon as the point is clear and maybe one for testing too°
Second create a forum for testing, so the testing activities will not inflate the developers discussions too much and make them harder to read. One thread = One code or script portion= one testing task
Third define a testing procedure: I suggest testers use char(s) with status similar to official server and char(s) with variable stats to be able to fit various situations.
a tester is assigned one task (or a sequence of tasks) by the content leader (or by a testers' leader if needed). If developers join the team they are assigned different tasks than those they worked on. No playing with unreleased items and no unrealistic status while testing is allowed or the test is biased. Initial conditions must be specified if needed.
.....

[Jenalya]

first improve the bug reporting system. It is not obvious and #tmw-dev seems to be used sometimes as #tmw-cafe. and we don't want to have any remarks from people who can practice dev abuse in game and don't care about the actual server.
With Big Crunch I would suggest Forums AND Mantis. http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 6&start=22. (o11c pointed out that categories could be simplified). I would suggest a wiki page on bug reporting as soon as the point is clear and maybe one for testing too°

Mantis isn't really usable for me at the moment and I have the impression this also applies to other developers. When I visit it, I just want to close it again, because there are tons of issues related to the client-development which makes it very unclear. It might be a good tool if we could start it from scratch.
In my opinion the feedback section in the forum is a very good place to put bug reports. Also it happens regularly that people successfully report bugs via IRC.

Second create a forum for testing, so the testing activities will not inflate the developers discussions too much and make them harder to read. One thread = One code or script portion= one testing task

I don't understand why you want a new forum for this. We use to create topics in the content development section which contain "TEST" in their topic, and describe what needs to be tested. What do you think can be improved on that?

Third define a testing procedure: I suggest testers use char(s) with status similar to official server and char(s) with variable stats to be able to fit various situations.
a tester is assigned one task (or a sequence of tasks) by the content leader (or by a testers' leader if needed). If developers join the team they are assigned different tasks than those they worked on. No playing with unreleased items and no unrealistic status while testing is allowed or the test is biased. Initial conditions must be specified if needed.

I'm currently wondering, if Trello might be a useful tool for this. There we can create cards with a description of what needs to be tested under what conditions and people can be assigned to those cards.

[Crush]

Mantis isn't really usable for me at the moment and I have the impression this also applies to other developers. When I visit it, I just want to close it again, because there are tons of issues related to the client-development which makes it very unclear. It might be a good tool if we could start it from scratch.

All client-related issues should have been moved to http://bugs.manasource.org long ago. You shouldn't hesitate to delete the remaining ones.

[Bertram]

Hi,

All client-related issues should have been moved to http://bugs.manasource.org long ago. You shouldn't hesitate to delete the remaining ones.

Sorry Crush, but this is wrong.

I left some of them, just because there were many comments, or felt not willing to move them over manasource at the time.

Please, do not delete them whithout at least listing them somewhere, so I can finish the job.
I'll try to be pro-active and start it before you have to, though.

Best regards,