new map/punishment for dying

[georgemhtr]

It really is up to you guys, however let me give my opinion at some of void's points:

First of all : pvp. If you believe that someone could abuse death in a pvp place, like below hurnscald, then a delay as to how often you can enter the pvp cave again would be alot more appropriate.

As for the terranite cave, this wouldn't pose as a problem since the cave is already too far away, and if someone chose to pay, then that itself is punishment enough.

Secondly, it is my firm conviction that players actually should roam around free. Why? Because as I have already stated, I believe that GP for travelling or on foot traveling delay until you reach your destination again is punishment enough. So if someone dies repeatedly, he already spends either too much gp or too much time on travelling, which is a punishment as it stands (once again, I don't take into account low level areas since OP himself said that he wants to make it <30 lvl immune).

Aside that, monsters respawning and lag spikes are gonna cause a hell loads more punishments resulting from an unpredicted, unavoidable death than someone dying intentionally or just because he got overpowered by said area's level of difficulty.

And to be honest, I have been playing for 3ish months right now, and being almost level 80 on my main character, I never found something that could be abused aside free travelling, and many solutions to that have already been stated.

In a game where I repeatedly would have to run the same boring map (absolutely no offense to the creator, everything gets boring after much repeating, even cupcakes^^) just to get back to the point where I died because something spawned on my feet, I would personally be utterly discouraged, not only to roam free, but also to do stuff. So my point is that this would chase people away, instead of balancing.

So in my eyes, ultimately, the only visible issue is the free travelling thing (in which noone has replied why it isn't intended, since the wiki mentions it as a "tip" for lowbies), nothing else can be really abused (if someone regards my solution about pvp areas).

Now this all is just me, and by no means I am demanding anything, so I don't want to cause any uproars.

Regards,
Nidever

[Nard]

Along, with choices like no race and no classes, no death penalty is one of the outstanding things that makes TMW different from other mmorpgs. They make the players more distant from the content, thus a bit less role and a bit more social. These choices participate in game originality and attractiveness. Balance between categories has nothing to do with it . The main question, in my opinion, we have to ask is "is the game fun to play as it is? what could it gain if we change it? what does it loose if we don't?
When I began to play, I was waiting for the death penalty to accur and was surprised to learn there was not : I thought I could loose exp and items with it or even death to become permanent. Now I' got accustomed to it and find fine we have the right to make errors; but I'd prefer if there was a "Return Home" magic item at relative low cost. And if we speak about death we should also speak of item wear and fracture, potion fermentation ...
/me sips a glass of beer before it looses it's bubles.
I would pesonally prefer with far higher priority that guild system is functional again, and that chat channels are enabled (created ?) to allow at least language channels.
Auction bot and Manamarket also underlined what the main lacks of the server are; their features should be integrated in server.

[o11c]

I haven't run yet o11c's code in a local server, but reading diagonally the code, i understood you have to walk on a hell-ish map to get back to the location where you died?
If so, i dont think it's a bad idea unless it's a headache to get out or takes too much time.
@o11c: For those who can't look / test your suggestion, maybe you can explain here what it's about?

"You are in a twisty maze of little passages, all alike."

Basically, it's an complete graph, so wherever you enter the map (hm ... I never implemented "random initial state", did I ...) it is at most two warps out, if you pick the right ones. And, you always know what state you are in if you carefully pay attention to the message you get.

In practice, you don't try to remember the "optimal" way out, but rather just remember a repeated pattern that will either get you out eventually, or lead into an easily recognizable loop in which case you just pick another direction at random and then use the pattern. No, I'm not telling what the pattern is.

The completeness of the graph is broken in exactly two places, which are the exits (in a complete graph they would connect to each other). Currently, they both connect, not to the place that you died, but to the place that you had your respawn set (i.e. the last Soul Menhir you touched). It would be possible to connect the two exits to different points, but keep in mind it would break things horribly if you could go back to your death location - imagine Candor if people could return!

--

I have not yet written the logic to prevent using warp towels, etc. from Hell. If you do use them, the current logic leaves your respawn point as in Hell, unless you touch a Soul Menhir again. The logic would also be broken if you somehow manage to die in Hell (is there any way besides summoning spells?) - I should probably special-case that.

Death's dialogue should be expanded. I had the idea that after every prompt he should say "I can't believe they made me an NPC", since, you know, the sprite belongs to a boss mob. I wonder how many people will panic when they first see it ...

--

As a player, I remember that lag-death, though inevitable, was not an everyday occurance once you got your level up.

That (and not annoying newbies) is why there's an exemption for low-level characters. The exact number could be changed - it is current 30, which is on the low side.

[v0id]

(is there any way besides summoning spells?)

a few, and some are easy, e.g eat shock sweets; or having 2 scissors inventory, use them.

First of all : pvp. If you believe that someone could abuse death in a pvp place, like below hurnscald, then a delay as to how often you can enter the pvp cave again would be alot more appropriate.

As for the terranite cave, this wouldn't pose as a problem since the cave is already too far away, and if someone chose to pay, then that itself is punishment enough.

Not talking of the pvp cave below hurns, but when pvp is enabled in hurnscald itself.
for the terranite cave: pink towel. and no, even if you pay to come back, i don't consider it a punishment, at least for those that will want to come back, if you see what i mean. Agreed for others:).

[georgemhtr]

I will be as honest about this as it gets, followed by any consequational replies it gets, if any.
I absolutely and thouroughly agree with Nard, to the extent that after reading his post, what o11c described sounds boring and not TMWish. For me, the game would lose one of the things that makes it amazing.

Absolutely no offense o11c, I did promise honesty.

Edit : Then, V0id, seems like we got different opinions about this Anyway, I'll check updates frequently to see what's gonna happen with the matter.

Nidever

[tsukinokage]

but I'd prefer if there was a "Return Home" magic item at relative low cost.

Currently there're level 4 teleport spell(that requires general magic level 5 and austral magic level 5 to cast) already implemented. That spell don't require any components. That'll be great to just make it level 1 or level 2 spells but require components, and after you get e.g. austral magic level 4, then you don't need the compoents, just like many war magic. #flar and such already implemented that way, you only need sulphur powder before war magic level 3, after you get war magic level 3, you don't need sulphur powder to cast #flar, refer to my recent change to the wiki in Spells page.

And also, although level 3 and level 4 spells are not obtainable yet, in magic.conf.example, the high level spells don't give xp, I think that should be changed. Since we already know that higher level spells give more magic xp. Maybe someone add these high level spells saw there's a line about level4 and level 5 magic user don't get magic xp thing at the begginning of magic.conf.example, so they don't use gain_xp() function, if that the case, then I'd say, what that line wants to express is that level 4 magic users won't gain magic xp if you cast level 0 spells, and level 5 magic users won't gain magic xp if you cast level 0 and level 1 spells.

By the way, although I decided after drop all my items in Northern mine, I'll quit the game, still if the dev community want to implement the above, but don't have enough time, I can make patches to the current magic.conf.example. Only what needed to be discussed first is to make the teleport spell which level it belongs to, and make it require what item, and how much xp to give to the high level spells and so on.

Also, it'll require someone to do the script to introduce the teleport spell, I can do scripting too, but I'm not native English speaker, so I cann't make conversation and story.

Regards!

[Crush]

Condemning change before even having played it... typical gamer behavior.

[o11c]

The problem with enabling more magic spells is that they were written before the new skills. Currently, the idea is that you can focus on one class of magic as well as one skill in general - so you could get the teleport spell OR the fireball spell, but not both. But there hasn't been a lot of work in this area.

But expanding magic is orthogonal to the proposal in this thread.