[DIS] Quality level of TMW

[Len]

Edit by Crush: This discussion was forked from thread [WIP] New Desert Tileset

While that is a rather impressive edit, let me be frank the look of the game is such that I feel most people take one look laugh at it and move on. Many of those people probably would have become developers if the game was more attractive and actually manage to catch their attention. The game is in need of a major revision, CR1 proves that I was not the only one that felt this way. In short I much rather improve the overall look of the current game, than expand it compounding the problem.

[wushin]

Thanks. Glad you like it. Love your work. I agree the game isn't the best. but My 2 cents.
I think TMWA is like a sandbox/dev for pixel/content developers. We all have to start some place and I think that place is TMWA. It's in constant development code wise, why shouldn't art music and etc. be the same. Eventually as people progress with art and they go on to other things. Which (as The People's Champion) will encourage people to come and help regardless the skill level. As TMWA art isn't so out of reach of my own skill, whereas Wesnoth would be WAY out of my range. IMO, the art style should have a folky feel to it and bug people to want to fix it. As I've viewed the Art requirement for TMWA as usable art. It builds an environment that cultivates talent and explores ideas. The art may not be the best but it helps make average people great.

BTW, we are doing this whole trying to get dual-licenses on art so we can use better content and get more artists. Would you mine adding cc-by-sa-3 in addition to gpl2 to these files?

[Len]

Plenty of places and forums to learn art/pixelart on the net. Tmw doesn't need to be a training camp, it needs to be the best game we can possibly make it (not just in game-play). Wesnoth started out much like TMW, but they recognized the necessity of reinventing the look of their game.

Would you mine adding cc-by-sa-3 in addition to gpl2 to these files?

They are already listed as such on open game art, so I'm fine with having my art for TMW/WOA in cc-by-sa-3..

[Matt]

True dat Len!

Wesnoth really progressed forward

[bell chick]

While that is a rather impressive edit, let me be frank the look of the game is such that I feel most people take one look laugh at it and move on. Many of those people probably would have become developers if the game was more attractive and actually manage to catch their attention. The game is in need of a major revision, CR1 proves that I was not the only one that felt this way. In short I much rather improve the overall look of the current game, than expand it compounding the problem.

problem is weve all heard that cr1 isnot compatible with the current game. youll lose every player if you make everyone start over. beisdes idk ive never been too much into graphics and like the snes style and would be sad to see it go

[Len]

problem is weve all heard that cr1 isnot compatible with the current game. youll lose every player if you make everyone start over.

I'm not talking about starting over, while its true that what I have in mind would require the remapping of most of the game players would not lose anything, and mapping is not the hardest job. A little off topic, but you are aware that most mmorpgs do have wipes during development without losing every player? Developers should be focused on how best to improve the game long term, not to keep a handful of players in the beta happy.

beisdes idk ive never been too much into graphics and like the snes style and would be sad to see it go

I'm not sure what you mean, SNES games are not as limited as you seem to suggest we have plenty of room for improvement.. and believe it or not it would help grow this game, as a lot of people judge us by the look of the game.

A few SNES games:

[Jaxad0127]

I'm not talking about starting over, while its true that what I have in mind would require the remapping of most of the game players would not lose anything, and mapping is not the hardest job.

Good mapping isn't as easy as you think. Lets start with making new content with the new graphics and slowly replace the old.

[o11c]

Redoing the maps for the ASCII event was hard enough. Real mapping is certain to be harder.

It doesn't help that some of our tilesets require all sorts of evil stitching.

[Len]

Lets start with making new content with the new graphics and slowly replace the old.

This is new content with new graphics, intended to replace the old.

This is part of the reason this game lost Jetryl, and neoriceisgood (You can't be dismissive of our advice in regards to the look of the game).

I'm certainly not the first to say this, but the game needs a consistent look throughout. we need to be more focused on fixing the glaring issues present in the game. When a design is unsound you don't continue to add to it until you fix the underlying problem. It's not ok to have the low resolution buildings still in the game, yes they are amazing and would be great if the game was still low res. But the time has come when they need to be updated or thrown out. This game is almost 10 years old and yet this

lets fix it aready.png (241.94 KiB) Viewed 5865 times

Let us get the core look and game-play down before we start turning our attention toward more little events with another useless hat as a reward.

[Jaxad0127]

Yes, fixing that stuff is needed. Wushin is heading up the project for Tonori. If you'd like to help on Argaes, I'd be happy to have you.

Let us get the core look and game-play down before we start turning our attention toward more little events with another useless hat as a reward.

No events planned at the moment.

[Len]

Yes, fixing that stuff is needed. Wushin is heading up the project for Tonori. If you'd like to help on Argaes, I'd be happy to have you.

I said they are good edits, but they suffer from many of the same issues as the game in general. You can't always just grab a bunch of different assets from different sets, changed the brightness and sat and call it a day. At some point you need to actually get in and paint, and create mock ups of what you want the end result to be without being constrained to a 32 x 32 square. (Wushin I'm sorry for using you as example, as you seem to have an understanding of what you are doing )

Idea_gold_test1.png (56.98 KiB) Viewed 5969 times

Example of a mock up, basically playing around with the mine tileset, I found that the ground for the most part felt flat and the walls felt pasted on and not integrated into the ground. I also felt that the gold vain used in the walls looked more like the ground and not representative of gold, and that a new transition is needed for wall meeting the ceiling (keeping the old one for multiple layered/level areas).

[wushin]

No worries as to using me as an example. I've only been drawing for a little bit. (4 months maybe (amazing what some practice will do). I like the edits. I made the gold one. AND I Totally kicked myself for not making it mutli-leveled and was going to go back to edit for that one.

The main problem is there are few to no active artists working on anything in manaworld. So It's pretty much take what you can get. Hopefully the ones among us working on our skills will be able to make what we make better. I know each tileset I develop gets better and better.

[Big Crunch]

wushins energy and enthusiasm have been a bright spot these past couple months. I have high hopes for that wierdo.

[Matt]

10 years already, wow. Len is right, the super sai-ed resized lowres do not match together with anything, that is why CR1 was so a good idea
I hope that TMW will be different from Stendhal someday

[wushin]

Back on topic. Chika-maria I plan on separating the mine from the scaffolding and making 4 sets indoor and outdoor mine and indoor outdoor scaffolding. Both will be cc-by-sa-3.0 and gplv2 unless they are completed after the impending cc-by-sa-3 switch. They will be freely available to any project for any use under those licenses. Len and/or your and/or anyone else is welcome to complete these tiles as well. All I care about is replacing the current cave tileset.

As for quality I agree the work could be better, but unless you are offering to complete it or offering constructive advice on how to fix it your comments don't help. We are all not picassos but some of us are trying to improve.

I've just joined because as a player I wanted the game to be better. This includes all facets; from graphics to community. The first impression many players get of us is from the forum and in game. If we continue to behave like this none of us will win anything but ruin.

If you think something or some project is a good idea then participate in positive ways to make that better. Enough of all of them are looking for help from manaserv to evol online. There are enough political factions where you have to be able to get along with one of the groups.

With that, please comments related to making this tileset better.