[DIS][WIP] Rare mob dropping currently unobtainable items

[deepthought]

This leads to it not being really easy to get rares and that there won't be a big inflation of them. Since you talked of Krukan, have you seen many dark helms lately? And the spawns of Krukan is up to players, they pay for it.

I know that someone would rise the darkhelm issue when i said that. Many players(surprisingly some experinced players too) including myself thought that darkhelm is a myth until Wushin conformed in one of the forums posts it's not and also there aren't any dark helm's released in TMW. I have been passing around the word about darkhelm and I also mentioned it in wiki. I also created an item page for dark helm, added it to item/headarmor section and also created crypt boss quest pages. Previously there was only a single reference to dark helm in monster reference page. No wonder it's a myth. Now many people would know. I have an irking sensation that darkhelm will be out soon. At max 3 months.

2. This is not the only way to make rares obtainable, i still like the boss point idea, but some people seems to think that it is not a good idea. I think it is great because it would give the older player a new goal. And if they really wanted a special rare but havn't had a chance getting one it is a way to finally get one. And if youve got that many bosspoints you have earned it.

Not only the old players but also for new players who have reached 90 and above would give them something to fight for. There are many players who have hit 90, 98 and 99 in these few months. We should put an vote on this.

[Ginaria]

Lets make it easy.
I am really sure, that if developers reintroduce rares ingame as drops or in exchange for boss points and money, then something like a rare dont exist after 1 year or probably 2 years.
So why wait one year, lets give everyone all rares for free, thats save people a lot of time and devs a lot of programming work.
People, who are long time here and spend lot of time to get rares, should not have rares anymore. We should tell them their effort to get rares was just wasted time like getting level 99, because now you get 99kk for free at christmas, so cool.
Give players another reason to quit after reaching level 99, because they have everything then.
Oh wait, some newbies have problems to get better armor and they dont have level 99 after 24 hours. We should solve this problem too.
Why we dont give all items for free and then we raise power of banshee bow so much, that this will be a 2D shooter to kill skeletons with one hit.

Probably I overexaggerate and its all nonsense and probably i only like sitting on my rares like an old sad dragon similar to Smaug but pink.

I just dont understand why everyone must have reached level 99 and why everyone must have all funny hats, which are most times just funny. I started here with nothing and other players too and we found ways to get some rares.
If we would have stats about how many for example eyepatches are ingame at least.... that could help to decide if a rare should be re-introduced.

[Cassy]

I agree with veryape, especially him pointing out that thinking that unobtainables wouldn't be rare anymore is just totally wrong.
But that's also what I said right from the beginning:

But: Making them available through rare mob drops might be a good idea - it strongly depends on how rare and because of this unfairness mentioned I am for *very* rare.
[...]

Very rare means to me:

• Finding the mob itself would already be rare: there would only be one at a time and there would be at least 50 different positions all over TMW where it can spawn (but everyone would be able to kill it, even new players - same chances for everyone)
• A mob can have 8 drops
• We use one slot with high drop chance. I'm thinking on Scissors as they are nothing special but at least have a use. I'd even say 100% drop chance.
• All other slots should have a drop chance of maximum 0.02%. Summing things up it's a 0.14% chance to get a former unobtainable - killing 714 of that mob to get one (in avarage) - still very rare.
• They would not be allowed to be @spawn'ed or @summon'ed with a GM command

And I also agree with a timed spawn, so you can't really put up alts at the spawn locations and grind the mob.
Another point: There will be *at least* 50 spawn locations, my goal is even 100+.
Now tell me again how easy it would be to get a rare drop and how those will spread all over TMW and won't be rare any more


Anyway, let's please focus on this suggestion for now.
We have so many unobtainables that this wouldn't be the only way to reintroduce them.
New suggestions are welcome, but as an addition to this, not as replacement

[Travolta]

A small addition.

Would I be glad to see many players running around in a Christmas Elf Hat? No, I think I'd probably feel unconfortable with that. But come on! With that drop rate we would get 0.0014 * 3 * 365 = 1.5 rare drops a YEAR! (if we spawn 3 mobs per 24 hrs) That hardly would change anything in the game.

Also I support the idea there should be many variants of some rares (with linings, dyable etc). More hats to ManaWorld! So players can differ and look more unique.

--
Travolta

[Cassy]

Would I be glad to see many players running around in a Christmas Elf Hat? No, I think I'd probably feel unconfortable with that. But come on! With that drop rate we would get 0.0014 * 3 * 365 = 1.5 rare drops a YEAR! (if we spawn 3 mobs per 24 hrs) That hardly would change anything in the game.

Yeah, that's exactly my thoughts too
Really, I love my Bunny Ears or Sunglasses and would hate it so much if suddenly many people ran around with them.
But this would definitely not happen with this drop chances and spawn rates. No way.
(Though 1.5 rares a year are a bit too few IMO )

[Travolta]

(Though 1.5 rares a year are a bit too few IMO )

So let's make it 6 mob spawns a day (every 4 hours) which gives in average 3 rare items a year. Or even more, I guess the game would survive 5-6 "spawned" rare hats a year.

[Ledmitz]

No matter what you do there will be opposition. It sucks when you can never ever get your hands on something, like a scarab armlet ( I sought this 1 for years). On the other hand... I lost out millions on the towel changes as I had bought most of mine, but I still like the new changes, though it makes the hitchhiker kinda useless, for the most part... especially the quest if it still exists.
I know I don't want to see everyone have scissors. If I recall correctly, I spent a fair bit on those too, but I would like to see them be available. Is there a way to check how many rare items of 1 type are still in existence on commonly used accounts? How about making only those ones available. It helps to keep all items in use, in the game and to limit what is available. I like the 1.5 drops per year ratio, but it sounds low to me as well. Can you make an enemy drop another enemy? maybe like those russian dolls...you'd have to get to the centre one before you could get your rare chance. if there are too few drops in the year, just add more russian dolls (so to speak).

[Wombat]

On the particular monster, though I think more can be done to the mouboo than greyscale and highlight it, the discussion I had on IRC about it was interesting enough that I think it fits the rares monster well. This white mouboo could have a monster state that makes it run away instead of stay and fight. It could have a monster skill to teleport every few seconds, for a certain % of damage and other factors. It could have 40,000 or 200,000 hit points. Most of these would add to the playability of the monster as its legend spreads. Like the legend of the white stag, the powerful players wander the world, hunting the ever elusive, hard to kill prey.

Figured I'd add this idea because it wasn't in the forums. Some of the perks I mentioned might not be available now, like the monster state, but it was part of eAthena IIRC

[Travolta]

On the particular monster, though I think more can be done to the mouboo than greyscale and highlight it, the discussion I had on IRC about it was interesting enough that I think it fits the rares monster well. This white mouboo could have a monster state that makes it run away instead of stay and fight. It could have a monster skill to teleport every few seconds, for a certain % of damage and other factors. It could have 40,000 or 200,000 hit points. Most of these would add to the playability of the monster as its legend spreads. Like the legend of the white stag, the powerful players wander the world, hunting the ever elusive, hard to kill prey.

Figured I'd add this idea because it wasn't in the forums. Some of the perks I mentioned might not be available now, like the monster state, but it was part of eAthena IIRC

Woah, what a cool idea! Can you really implement a "running away" mob? Please let it be a white deer or something like that Or we could make up something in the spirit of TMW. White mouboo... idk. There's plenty of kinds of mouboos already. But it's still an option

--
Travolta

[Xtreem]

I think the 0.001% drop rate is the best choice.
Even if it is 1.5 per year because even with a low rate can still happen to drop one after another.
Even with all this I don't think a rare will become a not rare.
It will not always drop something. If drop what are the chances of being the same item that drop a day or two ago?
I still think that a mob like this must have respawn 12 hours or more!

[Mikko]

Would I be glad to see many players running around in a Christmas Elf Hat? No, I think I'd probably feel unconfortable with that. But come on! With that drop rate we would get 0.0014 * 3 * 365 = 1.5 rare drops a YEAR! (if we spawn 3 mobs per 24 hrs) That hardly would change anything in the game.

Yeah, that's exactly my thoughts too
Really, I love my Bunny Ears or Sunglasses and would hate it so much if suddenly many people ran around with them.
But this would definitely not happen with this drop chances and spawn rates. No way.
(Though 1.5 rares a year are a bit too few IMO )

It depends on how much you respect the player's time.
Sure, you could make the drop rates low, but are you really okay with that?
TMW belongs to everyone, you don't get to keep all the good bits to yourself.

[jasm]

is it possible to make it killable only by players who must have completed every quest in the game?

[wushin]

Yes, a tad pain in the butt but the beanie copter hat already kinda does that without the Rare Mob spawn.

[ozthokk]

Figured i would post this here,,,, I had this idea a long time ago for LOF, but i will share it here. My idea was kinda the same as what we are talking about here, but it involved an NPC i made "Posted Bellow" named The MouBoo Wrangler, simply put, he asks you to Wrangle a rare CowBoo,,, I had a sprite for this CowBoo in which i early said i would post, it looked like a regular Dairy Cow, but with the neck of a MouBoo, but unfortunately i cannot find it in my files, anyways, how you would wrangle this Boo, would simply be killing it, then you would pick up a CowBoo figure that it drops, give it to the Wrangler and in return he will give you rare prize. Now, concerning the problem i am seeing here with older players not wanting rares to be so common, well, this "Quest of sorts" would act like the Shannon Hat quest, once a year you go to him and the quest is activated, but, another quest that this NPC would be used for as well, not sure of what that one would be at this time. Also added bellow is a small map i made" The Wranglers home"..

[Celestia]

I think the special rare shop idea to pay with boss points talked about by deepthought and veryape is a good idea that has some potential. Of course the 2 most common objections to it would be (1) that it would favor the older players who had more time to stockpile boss points over the years and (2) would come off as a slap in the face to the people if lets say they bought a Scarab Armlet for 50kk (the current value as I heard from some people) only for them to come out as being sold at the new shop for 25000 boss points.

At the same time both objections would be easy to address:

(1) To even the playing field for new players vs older players, how about "resetting" the boss points as a new variable so that only boss points earned since this "rares for boss points shop" comes into the game can be used at the shop. Also to keep things fair for the getting Beaniecopter Hat instead of being 5000 boss points it becomes when the total of the old boss points + new boss points = 5000 or higher.

(2) Consider making the new bought rares dyable (a bit like the bunny ears vs rabbit ears) and or split the item number and have a lightly different item description. For example add "a rare original from {year of release}" to make the old ones stand out and/or add "bought from Exotic Rare Trader (or whatever the shop will be called)" so the "rares" will stay rare when the new rereleased items will be expensive like the High Priest Crown but marked that way that they can not be confused with the old ones. The "new bought rares" will still have value as it might be one thing to track down a rare tophat for 5kk but buying a new dyable tophat for 20kk or 15000 boss points is still impressive as it is a mark of how hard a person was willing to work in order to get it. Personally that was the main reason why I went to get a high priest crown before even trying to go after any rares because unlike trying to track down a rare funky hat or shroom hat which there is no promise that regardless of how hard you work that you will be able to get one, a high priest crown while very expensive has a clear end of 30kk so you know if you want it enough to keep at it then you will get one.