[FUSION] [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.
User avatar
WildX
Development Producer
Development Producer
Posts: 1402
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 15:13
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

[FUSION] [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by WildX » 07 Jul 2016, 23:04

In light of recent events, this is my plan to compensate TMW players who might lose (ideally) all items and money as a result of the merge. This includes the chance for players to own unobtainable items - this might be the only time the project will release unobtainables as we're mostly against it as a rule of thumb. These items will not be possible to drop or trade with anybody, so that they don't ruin the game's economy.
Disclaimer: this is only a suggestion. What to do is still being discussed and the aim of this thread is to collect all ideas and come up with the best solution to please the most people.
  • Community vote on most popular rare hat.
    Players will get to vote their all-time favourite rare hat from TMW and this will be given to all transferred TMW characters over a minimum level.
  • VIP (Very Important Players) perks.
    The truth is that some players have more history with TMW than others, and they wish for this to be recognised. A list of names will be compiled of all these players and they will have access to one additional rare hat of their choice, for a total of two unobtainables. In addition, NPCs named after them with in-game or IRL names (their choice) will be included in the final release of the game.
  • Ragnarok quests in old TMW.
    A final, simple quest-line will be introduced in the old TMW. Players will be asked to turn over their items and money to feed an interdimentional portal that will take them away and save them from the "end of the world". This portal will be operated by a NPC that will collect the valuables and give back a simple currency item that players will be able to use in the future in the new game to purchase stuff and generally have cool perks. Once this quest has run for a few days/weeks, characters will finally be ported over to the new server.
Discuss.
User avatar
gumi
Developer
Developer
Posts: 731
Joined: 19 May 2014, 19:18

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by gumi » 07 Jul 2016, 23:52

.:WildX:. wrote:Community vote on most popular rare hat.
Players will get to vote their all-time favourite rare hat from TMW and this will be given to all transferred TMW characters over a minimum level.
In my opinion, the reward we give should be purely symbolic and should not affect game balance (an item with 0 stats or noob stats). To avoid this reward from becoming an unobtainable item that every new player will be jealous about I suggest giving an existing, obtainable item that anyone can get, but in a unique color that that can not be obtained normally. This way, anyone can get item X but old TMW players also get it in a special limited-edition color. The reward could also be something else than an item, maybe a badge (icon floating atop the player) or in-game privileges (ie: access to special restricted areas of a map, ability to create more than one party, ability to use special unobtainable hairstyles or hair colors, ...). Whatever we choose, it should only be cosmetic and should not affect game balance in any way or provide an unfair advantage to old players vs new players.
.:WildX:. wrote:VIP (Very Important Players) perks.
The truth is that some players have more history with TMW than others, and they wish for this to be recognised. A list of names will be compiled of all these players and they will have access to one additional rare hat of their choice, for a total of two unobtainables. In addition, NPCs named after them with in-game or IRL names (their choice) will be included in the final release of the game.
This is a very bad idea. You are basically sorting players into arbitrary categories and saying that some are more valuable than others. I believe we should treat every player fairly and equally and only base the compensation on time played or in-game achievements.
.:WildX:. wrote:Ragnarok quests in old TMW.
A final, simple quest-line will be introduced in the old TMW. Players will be asked to turn over their items and money to feed an interdimentional portal that will take them away and save them from the "end of the world". This portal will be operated by a NPC that will collect the valuables and give back a simple currency item that players will be able to use in the future in the new game to purchase stuff and generally have cool perks. Once this quest has run for a few days/weeks, characters will finally be ported over to the new server.
Converting items/gp into a currency that can be used in the new world would be a bad idea because the economy on TMW is already screwed up. Some players have huge stockpiles of items obtained with exploits and such and those players would be billionaires in the new world. If we do convert items and gp to a currency I believe it should be capped so that you can't get more than X of the currency, but that would prove difficult to regulate because players could just split up their huge fortune across multiple characters on multiple accounts as to not hit the cap so giving a currency wouldn't be possible without also screwing the economy of the new world. To be honest, I don't see any way in which we could give a tangible (items, currency) reward and prevent players from creating multiple characters to get more of it. Sure, we could check the char creation date but some players already have a feces ton of characters they created a decade ago. TL;DR: Giving an intangible (badge, privileges, ...) reward would be a better option in my opinion
User avatar
WildX
Development Producer
Development Producer
Posts: 1402
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 15:13
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by WildX » 08 Jul 2016, 00:04

meko wrote:This is a very bad idea. You are basically sorting players into arbitrary categories and saying that some are more valuable than others. I believe we should treat every player fairly and equally and only base the compensation on time played or in-game achievements.
This is basically what I'm suggesting. Old time players and people who contributed to the project.
User avatar
gumi
Developer
Developer
Posts: 731
Joined: 19 May 2014, 19:18

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by gumi » 08 Jul 2016, 00:12

.:WildX:. wrote:
meko wrote:This is a very bad idea. You are basically sorting players into arbitrary categories and saying that some are more valuable than others. I believe we should treat every player fairly and equally and only base the compensation on time played or in-game achievements.
This is basically what I'm suggesting. Old time players and people who contributed to the project.
Players should not get an extra, 2nd rare just because they helped. Everyone should be treated equally no matter if they were involved in the project. Those that already have a contributor shirt could get it forwarded to the new world but don't just bypass the contributor approval process and give out rares to anyone you deem "important"
User avatar
prsm
Game Master
Game Master
Posts: 1444
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 18:18

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by prsm » 08 Jul 2016, 00:14

I have never played evol, so I am curious about a few things:

Do both games have the same items?
Does evol have items that TMW doesn't have? And vice versa

If the truth be told, I have at least one of everything in TMW, I am missing 5 of the 10 hints and a dev hat.

I don't mind losing items, I get that a game purge would help all, but I don't like the idea of having nothing ......

I gift many things in the game, it's one of the ways I help, when people quit they gift me rares that I find new homes for ( I don't sell them to make a profit).

So would it be a complete do over, or would have a few things?

Prsm
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
User avatar
WildX
Development Producer
Development Producer
Posts: 1402
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 15:13
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by WildX » 08 Jul 2016, 00:23

Evol is an entirely different game from TMW as it is now. There are different items, different maps and different content in general. After the merge, many items from TMW might be kept and made available in other ways.
Last edited by WildX on 08 Jul 2016, 00:29, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
WildX
Development Producer
Development Producer
Posts: 1402
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 15:13
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by WildX » 08 Jul 2016, 00:28

meko wrote:Players should not get an extra, 2nd rare just because they helped. Everyone should be treated equally no matter if they were involved in the project. Those that already have a contributor shirt could get it forwarded to the new world but don't just bypass the contributor approval process and give out rares to anyone you deem "important"
I haven't done anything. I believe old time players and contributors should be eligible for extra compensation and recognition. I also believe communities across many MMORPGs would agree with me in this, as this sort of thing (such as cosmetic items given to long-time players) is often proposed in various gaming communities.
meko wrote:Players should not get an extra, 2nd rare just because they helped.
"Thank you"s are not inequality.
User avatar
deepthought
Novice
Novice
Posts: 315
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 11:32
Location: India

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by deepthought » 08 Jul 2016, 06:41

Dear Evol,

I understand how hard it's to get rares and how much time they spent on the rares. Getting rares not just requires GP but also social skills. But still I think it's a bad idea to start the concept of unavailable items in Evol. Look at TMW at the past few years, it became all about hats. If you like to compensate TMW community, I suggest the following :

1. Compensate rares with high level items or items which are hard to get but still obtainable.
2. Make all rares available for drops as done in LOF server.
3. Implement veryape's idea of purchasing all rares for boss points or something similar in evol.
4. Abolish all rares and compensate it with evol GP or with experience points.
5. Monsters drop rares with very low probability or make them rewards for annual events or quests having low % of probability.

PS: Don't hate me for my views, I'm also one of those who has almost all rares. If you start having unavailable items in game, soon enough all players are obsessed with them and I believe it would ruin the game.
I'm as cool and comforting as the porcelain tiles on your bathroom floor during an evening of vomiting.
User avatar
WildX
Development Producer
Development Producer
Posts: 1402
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 15:13
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by WildX » 08 Jul 2016, 15:45

deepthought wrote:Dear Evol,

I understand how hard it's to get rares and how much time they spent on the rares. Getting rares not just requires GP but also social skills. But still I think it's a bad idea to start the concept of unavailable items in Evol. Look at TMW at the past few years, it became all about hats. If you like to compensate TMW community, I suggest the following :

1. Compensate rares with high level items or items which are hard to get but still obtainable.
2. Make all rares available for drops as done in LOF server.
3. Implement veryape's idea of purchasing all rares for boss points or something similar in evol.
4. Abolish all rares and compensate it with evol GP or with experience points.
5. Monsters drop rares with very low probability or make them rewards for annual events or quests having low % of probability.

PS: Don't hate me for my views, I'm also one of those who has almost all rares. If you start having unavailable items in game, soon enough all players are obsessed with them and I believe it would ruin the game.
The thing is, not everything is a slippery slope. It is possible to introduce unobtainable items only for a very specific and one-time event such as this merge and then to never do so again.

1 & 2. All the items we would introduce as "unobtainable items" would be possible to be made available with very low (decimal values) drop rates or with particular quests. The point of giving them straight away to TMW players is simply a way to say "you don't have to grind for EVERYTHING all over again, we know you've been playing for years and here's something that you get to keep for that".
3. The general consensus seems to be in favour of doing away with boss points. Something else will take the place of that feature.
4. Evol money will be already difficult to handle. We want an economic balance that TMW has never had. If we start giving away arbitrary sums of money we will break the economy in no time.
5. See points 1 & 2.

I can't hate you for your views when I made this thread to hear people's views :)
User avatar
wushin
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 1756
Joined: 18 Dec 2012, 06:56
Location: RiverBest, Brew City, Merica
Contact:

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by wushin » 08 Jul 2016, 19:27

Posting for reference.

Totals of All players items on TMW as of this day.
Attachments
recent-inventory.txt
(16.1 KiB) Downloaded 101 times
The secret to getting all the important stuff done is doing nothing.
User avatar
deepthought
Novice
Novice
Posts: 315
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 11:32
Location: India

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by deepthought » 09 Jul 2016, 07:09

WildX,
It's not like players are contributing for rares or fancy cosmetic stuff. I like the meko's idea. Instead of giving an extra rare, why not put C or star besides their name which will recognize them as contributors.
WildX wrote:
It is possible to introduce unobtainable items only for a very specific and one-time event such as this merge and then to never do so again.
Then I guess it's OK but still starting a new game with unobtainables leave a bad taste in the mouth. I like meko's suggestion here too. Having an ordinary item but in different color.

Bottom line is you can't compensate everything and some people regardless of how you compensate won't like it. I request you not to remove unobtainables which aren't rare hats like easter eggs, hints, bent needles and other stuff. Rare hats are nothing when you compare to the amount of time one spends on making a 99 level char. How will you compensate that ? I don't think there's a way to compensate that.
I'm as cool and comforting as the porcelain tiles on your bathroom floor during an evening of vomiting.
User avatar
WildX
Development Producer
Development Producer
Posts: 1402
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 15:13
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by WildX » 09 Jul 2016, 14:42

I don't know. A badge is as good as nothing in my mind. I even deactivated them because I find them annoying.
Billr
Peon
Peon
Posts: 23
Joined: 14 Oct 2009, 16:30

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by Billr » 09 Jul 2016, 19:47

A few thoughts here:
1) Treat the TMW and Evol islands like countries and have a "customs" with money exchange rates and money, item and level limits. That would allow an experienced player on the TMW island to be a newbie in Evol and vice versa. For some players, they could even be assigned "ambassador" status, with certain rights and privileges.

2) After looking at the item text file that wushin posted, it's evident that many players are hoarding common items. I do it too. I have almost 8000 acorns. Last time I needed to do a quest, I had some of the items already, which was nice ... my previous senseless, mind-numbing grinding wasn't totally worthless. Newbies eventually learn that hoarding is good for future quests and for selling. Rather than encourage hoarding, perhaps players would be able to buy/trade items for items needed in a quest. It could be as simple as selling items for gp(E) and using the gp(E) to buy necessary items. Or it could be scrip - perhaps a few different scrip of increasing value/use. Perhaps item count could be limited to a certain value (maybe 100?) to do away with hoarding but provide for enough item storage/trade.

3) Rares ... "customs" could handle rares in that none that are in TMW would be allowed into Evol. I don't like the idea of rares not being able to be sold/traded. It's a black market economy but it's not necessarily bad. It's simply trade, just like what is used with common items. Perhaps, rather than allow a free market economy to decide the value of rares, perhaps they could be capped at a maximum sale value (perhaps 200,000?).

4) Unobtainables. Some equate them to rares and some are rares. See 3) above. For all of them, change them to obtainables one way or another.
dragoon84
Novice
Novice
Posts: 119
Joined: 11 May 2016, 11:45
Location: Portugal

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by dragoon84 » 10 Jul 2016, 18:43

there is a way to make everyone happy:

Copy the accounts to the new game is easy as that. what i mean with this is the same chars in TMW will be the same in the new game (same lvl, same stats, same items that they have and the same money). This is just a suggestion :alt-9:
User avatar
Pawneeboy
Novice
Novice
Posts: 104
Joined: 28 Nov 2015, 01:05
Location: In the here and now

Re: [DIS] TMW player compensation scheme

Post by Pawneeboy » 11 Jul 2016, 04:41

The way i understand it, the artwork is going to be different...so lets say the Banshee Bow would look totally different in Evol than it would in TMW. At least i think that might be the problem. (But i might be wrong)
Post Reply