[FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.
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Keep everything or burn everything?

Migrate as much data as possible
52
58%
Migrate the bare minimum and compensate the players (see compensation thread)
37
42%
 
Total votes: 89
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gumi
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[FUSION] [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by gumi » 12 Jul 2016, 02:14

The main reason to not migrate TMW data over to the new project (Evol+TMW) is to start over with a clean, unbroken economy. Because of many exploits in the past, the TMW economy got badly broken. It is theoretically possible to migrate most of the TMW data if we add to Evol every single item that is present in TMW. Starting over with a stable economy would be for the best but exploits are bound to be discovered sooner or later in the new project and it would be just as broken as the TMW economy.

Things that can be migrated without any problem:
  • Character level
  • Character stats
  • Inventory items (with a converter)
    • If we add to Evol every single item present on TMW
  • Storage items (with a converter)
    • If we add to Evol every single item present on TMW
  • Parties
  • Spouses
  • GM Levels (manually)
Things that would be trickier but feasible:
  • Quest states (with a converter)
    • We would be able to migrate quest states only for quests that exist in the new project too and old quest states would need to be mapped to new quest states
  • Guilds (with a converter)
    • The guild bot relies on player names and with the merge some players are gonna be renamed (name collision) so the players that get renamed might have to be excluded from guilds (they could be manually added later)
Things that WILL NOT be migrated:
  • ManaMarket items and accounts
    • The players would be asked to remove their items and money from MM, and what remains would get moved to GM Storage
Things that may or may not be migrated:
  • Mob points
  • Boss points
  • Magic experience
  • Healing experience
  • Karma
There is 2 possible ways to go:
  • Migrate everything we are able to
    • Keep in mind that unobtainable items would become obtainable (albeit with a very low drop rate) in the new project. Many items will also have min level restrictions
  • Migrate the bare minimum and compensate the players
    • TMW players will loose all or many/most of their items if this is chosen
Last edited by gumi on 13 Jul 2016, 03:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by deepthought » 12 Jul 2016, 07:43

I don't think Evol will accept to migrate data as much as possible. There's a good reason why they started their own server. I say compensate minimally and move on. With 3-4 months of hardcore playing in evol, one will be just as rich as they were in TMW. Just because of your items, rares and levels, you want to ruin another game ? As a fan of Evol, I don't want the merge to happen if it's like this. What I would like to see in evol is candor like quest, illia sisters like quest, love triangle like quest. No matter how many times i do, love triangle quest never bores me. Love that story and quest.
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by EJlol » 12 Jul 2016, 08:37

From an art point of view (and not a player view) I say, burn everything. And with everything, I really mean everything. Including maps and tilesets, icons, etc. TMW has many low quality sprites. Textures are not consistent. Hat / other equipment ratio is out of bounds. The horrible cave tileset is used in many places sometimes even combined with the even more ugly arena tileset. In my opinion, now is a good chance to burn all these :alt-5:

By burning all these things, many things will become unavailable for players. And then comes the question how fair is it that a level 90 player may still stay level 90, while other players cannot become level 90 (yet) because there is only low level gear/monsters/quest available? Or even worse, if the low content has to go, how fair is it that only the old players that are still level 90 are able to kill monster X?
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by Reid » 12 Jul 2016, 13:50

From what I see from other threads, some players are reticent about the merge, but imagine our world without the fusion, there will be no devs on tmw, maybe no devs on evol too. Both project will sink and die away, all of this for what? To keep some precious rare hats?
The fusion is a call from developers, it became a pain to develop in short teams, give us the key to build a good game and I'm pretty sure that you won't be deceived.

Wushin and I talked about this merge since a long time now, we have our reasons else than just to form one big family, both our projects are dying as the community become smaller and smaller, we are both exhausted to work alone and to redo the same content/mistakes that the other one has done some months ago, etc...
EJlol wrote:By burning all these things, many things will become unavailable for players. And then comes the question how fair is it that a level 90 player may still stay level 90, while other players cannot become level 90 (yet) because there is only low level gear/monsters/quest available? Or even worse, if the low content has to go, how fair is it that only the old players that are still level 90 are able to kill monster X?
That was my primary reason to not port levels, the game will be different, some quests will stay (of course, it's those that everyone like), but the gameplay will be completely different, because this time there will be a gameplay.
But in the end, porting player levels is not much a threat to tmw/evol, as it will just ruin the game experience of those that wanted their level to be ported, so if they don't want to play this new game and that they just want to sit around in a bench, it's their choice and I completely understand them.

About the art merge, I am the one working on the plan for this. I won't throw away any icons that enchilado drew (almost 80% of tmw icons), those are really good. But I want a standard in our graphic style, so if it doesn't fit evol's current quality standard, it will just be redone or some other tileset will be used instead. (We technically have a large bunch of good tileset available, so the amount of work should not be catastrophic).
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by dragoon84 » 12 Jul 2016, 14:45

what do you mean with magic exp? Are you referring to the magic skills (like general magic level 2)?? if not i don't mind loosing the magic exp so for me you will migrate this:

Character level
Character stats
Character skills
Inventory items (including every single item present on TMW)
Storage items (including every single item present on TMW)
Parties
Spouses
GM Levels
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by TRGN » 13 Jul 2016, 11:25

Definently migrate as much data (and skytlurks) as possible.
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by WildX » 13 Jul 2016, 15:17

"As much data as possible" is an arbitrary measure. Knowning how we want to structure a stable economy, I wouldn't take that as a "we get to keep everything". Just saying.
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by soseki » 13 Jul 2016, 18:39

Burn all the feces down.
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by dragoon84 » 13 Jul 2016, 19:32

Transferring all data possible may screw the new game :alt-=:
So was a player that like this game i think that minimum may result is a awesome game because the developers will have the possibility to create new quest, new monsters, new skill (adding them to those that already exist) and new equipment :alt-9:
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by dragoon84 » 13 Jul 2016, 19:34

one more thing what will happens to this forum after the merge?? no on think about do you??

:alt-0:
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by TRGN » 13 Jul 2016, 19:51

dragoon84 wrote:Transferring all data possible may screw the new game :alt-=:
So was a player that like this game i think that minimum may result is a awesome game because the developers will have the possibility to create new quest, new monsters, new skill (adding them to those that already exist) and new equipment :alt-9:
I have played the games for too long to lose my stuff. Also, I'm sure that many players will quit after that.
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by dragoon84 » 13 Jul 2016, 22:54

your inventory will go to the new game just make sure that you don't have nothing in the Mana Market. Read the post that says what will go to the new game. :alt-9:
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by sumanutizo » 14 Jul 2016, 01:12

Dear all, I play this game since 2008 and I play it slow and casual.
I also donated some money, but I stop it since server reject all users from my country. Now I spendig that money on IP hider so I can continue playing..
I generally like idea of merging. It will be fun and new, like starting again...
I hope nothing (lvl, skils,items) will be transfer to this new game except for money.
My main char just reach lvl 90, I still didn't finish all quests, but I do not mind starting fresh...
But it would hurt me badly if money that I earn painfully cannot be transferred to this new merged game
As we all know there were hours of boring kilning bats or red slimes needed to collect money..

All items should be converted into money and added with all character money. That money can be received in new game like inheritance from cousin, mother, father.... Who wish can pick it up, and who do not like it can let it be.

I hope magic will be available there because I like it very much how it is done in mana world
In EVOL I do not like that there is no magic and it is irritating how close you mus be to NPC so you can talk.
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by Reid » 14 Jul 2016, 02:44

dragoon84 wrote:one more thing what will happens to this forum after the merge?? no on think about do you??

:alt-0:
Read the document that wushin linked in the other thread, evol forums will be merged with that one.
sumanutizo wrote:I generally like idea of merging. It will be fun and new, like starting again...
I hope nothing (lvl, skils,items) will be transfer to this new game except for money.
My main char just reach lvl 90, I still didn't finish all quests, but I do not mind starting fresh...
But it would hurt me badly if money that I earn painfully cannot be transferred to this new merged game
As we all know there were hours of boring kilning bats or red slimes needed to collect money..

All items should be converted into money and added with all character money. That money can be received in new game like inheritance from cousin, mother, father.... Who wish can pick it up, and who do not like it can let it be.
Although I understand your point, money is something that should not be imported. The economy on TMW is wrong, it's based on grinding and rare hats. If we import this we might screw up the future game development and player experience.
sumanutizo wrote:I hope magic will be available there because I like it very much how it is done in mana world
In EVOL I do not like that there is no magic and it is irritating how close you mus be to NPC so you can talk.
Evol is small, we planned to add magic but we never found the time to add it properly. It will be added and there are already work in progress on this side.
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Re: [DIS] TMW data merge & the economy

Post by Pawneeboy » 14 Jul 2016, 05:54

I think the items that should be kept is the current quest items (IE Bandit quest, Cindy, LTQ, Illia etc), as for money maybe give all players a starting amount of money (all the same amount ofc), and let 1 character from every account keep its level and stats. (and to keep out players with multiple account check IP's)
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