[DIS] Aurora1 classes

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.

Should Aurora1 include all planned classes?

Poll ended at 30 Mar 2014, 18:21

Yes: Warrior, assassin and mage.
2
33%
No: Warrior and assassin only.
0
No votes
No: Warrior only.
4
67%
 
Total votes: 6
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[DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by WildX » 12 Mar 2014, 20:43

Reid wrote:thief and magic won't be there
I'm absolutely opposed to releasing the game with just one class available. It'll be a let down for most players that have been waiting for Evol and it will drive many away forever. I myself would not enjoy playing as a warrior. Let's find a solution.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by Reid » 12 Mar 2014, 23:29

We can't release Evol with 50 maps and a gameplay well established.

I thought about the introduction of 3 races and 2 classes for the aurora1, we really can't add magic and thief just right now.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by WildX » 13 Mar 2014, 14:09

What 2 classes then?
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by Reid » 13 Mar 2014, 14:24

Archery and warrior, need to find proper name but it will be this.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by Salius » 13 Mar 2014, 16:15

Reid wrote:We can't release Evol with 50 maps and a gameplay well established.

I thought about the introduction of 3 races and 2 classes for the aurora1, we really can't add magic and thief just right now.
This is very bad :'(. I'm a mage and I need to learn a magic. The game without magic is bad for me.
I think you don't need "50 maps", but you can add some magic skills (may be beginner magic).
I'm already leveling up my INT and I have some SP, and I waiting when I can learn my first spells. But now I think I need wait too much time (may be years), when I start to learn magic :'(.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by WildX » 13 Mar 2014, 16:19

We need to sacrifice something else then. We must have classes. Evol's success depends on this.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by EJlol » 13 Mar 2014, 16:32

I remember the mana world without magic, it had more active players back then, than it has now alt36
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by Salius » 13 Mar 2014, 17:07

EJlol wrote:I remember the mana world without magic, it had more active players back then, than it has now alt36
The mana world without magic, lol. I hear about it from old players.
Mages always have no respect in the mana world. May be this is because they started without magic. May be starting tmw developers don't plan to add magic to the world.
If someone want to specialize in magic from start playing (from first level), this is near impossible in tmw. Maximum what you can at low levels is to be archer or warrior and a little mage. I played some games where you can be a pure mage from 1 lvl. This is not easy but possible to leveling mage from 1 lvl. Mages usually weak (low HP, low armor, low melee attack), but starter level magic always available to them and many low to medium level monsters to start leveling. I know many examples from different games where you can play as pure mage from start.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by WildX » 13 Mar 2014, 18:00

Let's keep on topic. Evol isn't TMW. The two main things Evol's magic system should allow is casting spells without typing the name of the spell and using magic from lvl 1.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by Salius » 13 Mar 2014, 18:18

WildX wrote:... using magic from lvl 1.
This is good idea.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by Reid » 13 Mar 2014, 21:16

WildX wrote:We need to sacrifice something else then. We must have classes. Evol's success depends on this.
We can't, with the actual amount of developers, hope to have magic, thief, assassin or any other kind of classes, it hurts me as well but we simply can't.
If somebody is whiling to design our magic skills, (basic ones), and that somebody else is whilling to add them into our eA engine or our TMW script engine, I'm ready for that.
But seriously, let's stop to dream, we can't even bring the aurora1 in time as everybody want to add more stuff inside, if we continue to make it bigger Evol won't ever be released.
EJlol wrote:I remember the mana world without magic, it had more active players back then, than it has now alt36
It had more active player because there was an active development, there was projects and ideas. That's what we should consider to do, Aurora1 will give a snapshot of what we can do, it will bring other contributors and who know, maybe a player community. We need to stick with an alive project, working for 2-3years in a row for just the Aurora1, how beauty it could be, won't bring us any help.
WildX wrote:Let's keep on topic. Evol isn't TMW. The two main things Evol's magic system should allow is casting spells without typing the name of the spell and using magic from lvl 1.
Well it's where you are wrong, Evol is somehow as when TMW get created, that's something to exploit, we're new, we have idea, we can do the same things than they do, without all of their management problems.
Evol magic "should" be usable through items, there're shortcut for items, so here you are. ;)

For magic at level one, seriously, that's almost impossible. Our gameplay and gamestory stop us to do this!
Our gamestory say that magic is prohibited, we can turn our intro to be done without killing any monsters, but what then? There'll be one wizard hidden on the sewer of the city and an halchimist on the city.

Our classes can be changed, you can focus on different kind of class and change it whenever you want. You can change your races (thus your stat bonus), you can change your stat, and classes are based on the skills that you learnt and on the equipment that you use. There're no restriction to learn one kind of class instead of another one, you can learn all of them, it's the way of how you play who change it.

I'm for offering warrior and maybe archer on the Aurora1, the focus on next release will be to bring other races.

Let's stop to focus on meta stuff and let's work on the base of the game, we need to offer something else than the introduction!
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by WildX » 13 Mar 2014, 21:47

Let's start by merging similar classes. Archers and thieves can be combined easily as they would use basically the same stats. As for magic, we could try to work together with TMW on this one. They need a better magic system and we need a new magic system.
Reid wrote: For magic at level one, seriously, that's almost impossible. Our gameplay and gamestory stop us to do this!
Our gamestory say that magic is prohibited, we can turn our intro to be done without killing any monsters, but what then? There'll be one wizard hidden on the sewer of the city and an halchimist on the city.
The story must be changed and adapted to the gameplay. People play games for the gameplay first. The story, while important, is secondary. We could change it to prohibit magic only inside of the city. We could then work around this and maybe even make the game a bit more interesting for mage players.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by Salius » 16 Mar 2014, 17:56

Reid wrote:We can't release Evol with 50 maps and a gameplay well established.
You don't need many maps to add magic in game. I know this increase your work, but I really hope to see in Evol world much better gameplay than in TMW. If you have in Artis something like "Wizards guild" (I hope you have), then all players who want to learn magic can start to learn at this guild. Don't need very advanced magic system, only very basic to start learning. Some (not many) very basic magic spells.

When someday I go to Artis, I don't know what to do there without magic. All what I can do is go out of this world :'(.
Reid wrote:For magic at level one, seriously, that's almost impossible. Our gameplay and gamestory stop us to do this!
Our gamestory say that magic is prohibited, we can turn our intro to be done without killing any monsters, but what then?
Why impossible? And what do you mean "intro to be done without killing any monsters"? All players can kill some monsters in "intro", not depends on specialization.
When I write about "mages from 1st lvl", I don't mean they can use magic from 1st lvl. And I don't mean they can't use a knife to kill some monsters by hands. I mean they specialize in magic from 1st lvl: stats for magic etc. And I mean they can start to learn magic from low levels. May be not from 1st lvl, but may be 5 lvl or some near levels.
In TMW low lvl mage is completely useless character - this is what I really don't like. Only from about 60-70 lvl you can be a real mage. Gameplay must be made that way to any user can create a pure mage character from low levels and this character absolutely not useless. He/she can doing quests, killing monsters, help to other players (support character) and do all other things what other players can do. No any discrimination by your specialization.

And I hear nothing about your gamestory. Why magic is prohibited in your gamestory?
Reid wrote:Our classes can be changed, you can focus on different kind of class and change it whenever you want.
And now, may be all people start to beat me :), I think change of class/stats is bad idea. This is not good gameplay style when I change my stats everytime I want. Yesterday I am warrior, today I am archer, tomorrow I am mage. Who am I? I don't like players who frequently change their stats. May be, as alternative, allow for low lvl characters (for example 1 to 10 lvl) change their stats, but limited number of times. If I want try to play with different specializations, then I can make new characters with other specializations. But only one character is my main. My character is part of my personality.
When some player start to play, he/she can test playing with different specialized characters and then make a choice which specialization he/she like more. And mostly play with this specialization in future.

In conclusion: when I first time see Evol world, I see you trying to make completely new world different from TMW. This is the reason why I like this project. I always like something new. You are different from, for example, LOF world, which is good, but actually LOF is TMW with some differences. I had very big expectations from Evol world. Yes, this world small yet and not completed, but big expectations. And now I disappointed, all my expectations crash down. I understand you have not many developers as you need and they all busy people, but I hope you can make this world more playable for different people. I mean not everyone want to be warrior or archer. If I can't find place for myself in this world, what then, what is my next steps?
And I hope you can make more frequent updates of content on game server.
WildX wrote:The story must be changed and adapted to the gameplay. People play games for the gameplay first. The story, while important, is secondary.
Yes, you are right. People play for gameplay first.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by Reid » 16 Mar 2014, 18:22

I'm sorry but I won't change my mind on this. TMW did the mistake to add things because players wanted them, and now they don't have any gameplay nor a gamestory.
Things will come in time, there'll be secondary things to do if you don't want to play like a warrior or anything, magic will get into the game, but not at the first release.
You can't imagine the amount of work that it is, we first need to think with which server ressource we will go to add magic, like tmw? Or like eAthena?
Need to think at which spell to add, why, how, and then we will need to code them, to test them, and to implement them in game with graphics, animation and such. We might need some client support as well.

We can't do this aside the development of the first real area of the game, we will go slowly but we will go as planned.

Magic is also prohibited from town for a technical side: we don't want that somebody cause lag or anything with spells.


But don't worry, magic will get into the game, we just need to stop to rush things just because players want it. Look at the game introduction, it needed to be only inside the ship, in the end, everybody cried and I needed to map the island and to work on the graphics. It slowed us by 1year.
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Re: [DIS] Aurora1 classes

Post by WildX » 16 Mar 2014, 18:24

Edited into a poll, mainly to prove that the majority would like to have all classes.
Note that the "assassin" class includes both thief and archer, we can discuss this later on, for now the purpose of the poll is to decide on mages. The poll will run for 14 days, revoting is allowed.

If magic is to be done, I offer to plan all spells and balance of the mage class.
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