Overturned [Ban] 60 days Omido

This forum is used to deal with abuse in game - abuse reports, bans etc.
Locked
User avatar
prsm
Game Master
Game Master
Posts: 1547
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 18:18

Overturned [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by prsm »

Omido was banned for 60 days after insuting another alt.

The fact that he hasnt played in 90 days, does not count against the ban.

This ban is not negotiable.

Attachments
ManaPlus_Screenshot_server.themanaworld.org_2021-04-11_14-01-44_1.png
ManaPlus_Screenshot_server.themanaworld.org_2021-04-11_14-01-44_1.png (470.1 KiB) Viewed 853 times
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
User avatar
prsm
Game Master
Game Master
Posts: 1547
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 18:18

Re: [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by prsm »

The weak can never forgive

Sent: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:23 pm
From: Cyrus the Great
Recipient: prsm

Prsm

I am writing this to inform you that I do not consider your imposed ban to be justified and I believe it is wrong and is motivated by other factors.

With all due respect, I personally feel pity for you. I can guess what a hard life you must have had and I share my sympathies with you but honestly, I believe you need professional help. This is not to mock you or insult you as I am not that type of personality, what I say is that do not put your anger on players in a game. Whatever happens in real life, try to keep it in real life.

As an Iranian, I am no stranger to discrimination. I had been subject to racial slurs and insults against Muslims, which you did nothing about.

I am more sorry that as a grown man, you are not even man enough to stay upon your own words. You wanted to ban me in December, which I accepted and I asked you not to announce it on forums as I didn't consider myself to be wrongful and I still do believe that I was subject to abuse from WarriorWorld (aka your favorite bot which you tolerate. I told you that I will log off from the game and will not return. I returned after 90 days and I expected the ban to be lifted. I didn't saw any messages upon return so I thought my ban time is over.

You are also not professional enough not to share screenshots of your private talk with a player with others. I am currently an admin in a number of FOSS projects including KDE, and we will never do such a thing as you do.

As a long-time player and community member with no history of ban and issues, I am aware that you are doing this for Rill and you want to ruin my reputation and remove me from the game. Like what you have done to a lot of other players in the past and made this game as empty as it is. Which is lame and apparently means favoritism. Just because you don't like me doesn't justify your actions against me.

I will make sure to publicize this event in the FOSS community and wherever I can. Not because of any anger or grudge, but because of the unsafe and harmful mental environment that you have imposed on this game with your decade-long tyranny. I urge you to step down from your dictatorship position. Let some younger folks take the power. Enjoy your time with your family and sometimes play the game as a player. In contrast to your signature, you have a very big ego Prsm, which can be harmful to both people you hate for no reason (e.g Me) and maybe others.

I hope you feel heroic by this and made your friend Rill happy. Maybe you are a good friend but seriously a bad choice for any managerial position.

Take care of yourself.

Sincerely,
Omid

ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
User avatar
prsm
Game Master
Game Master
Posts: 1547
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 18:18

Re: [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by prsm »

what you think of me, I don't care!
where you come from I don't care!
You had no right to talk to other players like that, and this is your second offence.

I told you i needed to talk to the Gm team, and I did. When you logged in again, I
told you what was said, and past judgment.

the fact that you stopped playing for 90 days before the ban was issued, is not my concern.

Code: Select all

   Prsm
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
User avatar
Cyrus the Great
Peon
Peon
Posts: 20
Joined: 27 Feb 2012, 00:12

Re: [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by Cyrus the Great »

Good job Prsm. Publishing private messages is a professional, heroic and totally manly habit.

Nonetheless, I do reaffirm my position that I am wrongfully banned and this all is a plot in order to remove any criticism and opposing voice from the game.

Respectfully Prsm, you should realize that :

1- Criticism is not offense. I do criticize you for your actions and as a fellow human and player who has known you for 10 years, I sincerely recommend that you kindly try to calm down and find peace of mind. This is no insult and I mean it by my heart out of brotherly feelings (please believe this)

2- Even you can be wrong sometimes (Yes, even you)
I am aware of the services you have provided to this game, for which I am also grateful. But I can't be silent about what is totally wrong and when I have valid arguments for it. I asked you to check out the logs and system message history, and not to trust some manipulated screenshots which even a 9yo can create using "Paint for Windows".

3- You told me you wanted to ban me and suddenly my connection to the server was lost (even though the ban was totally wrong and IMHO fueled by outside factors that everybody in this game probably knows), during that time I was online in forums. I also made comments on in-game discussion topics which were viewed by you. The question is, why didn't you inform me that I should log in so that you are able to (wrongfully) ban me?

4- You have had a history of arguing with me over politics and other stuff that many users and admins are aware of (e.g: the Stalin case). The point is we can have different opinions and still not use our power to remove the other side. If you come to the forums where I am a moderator and you support a different view, I will not ban you or have a biased judgment in case another issue happens. (You know I will not). Purging people with different opinions is a habit of the very same dictator that you argued over with me. If you oppose him, do not replicate his actions in this game.

5- Since you are a fan of banning, locking topics, and having the final word, I should say you may enjoy silencing people with the powers you have, but still it doesn't make it right. This topic is titled "Courthouse". A courthouse is where people can defend themselves and argue about judgments. Not just a place where you announce your verdict and lock the topic.

Please let the topic live on, I don't mind sockpuppeting and the hurdles of your friends coming here. I just think that people should be able to voice their opinions because "Freedom of speech is a human right".

Please take care of yourself in these uncertain times.

"Success always calls for greater generosity — though most people, lost in the darkness of their own egos, treat it as an occasion for greater greed."
Cyrus the Great

User avatar
prsm
Game Master
Game Master
Posts: 1547
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 18:18

Re: [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by prsm »

Omido, I told you I would get back to you after I talked to Kytty.
I haven't seen you till today. It is not my fault you didnt show up
to find out what happened.

You told another player "His mother was a whore", you are being banned for
your words and actions. This is not the first time you have talked poorly
to others.

Feel free to blame everyone else for your actions, including me.

Code: Select all

 Prsm
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
User avatar
Cyrus the Great
Peon
Peon
Posts: 20
Joined: 27 Feb 2012, 00:12

Re: [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by Cyrus the Great »

Dear TMW admins and community

With respect to Prsm, I hereby reject the accusation and consider it baseless. Therefore, I ask other admins and moderators who do not have personal animosity towards me to check system and player logs, and also to evaluate the accuracy of the screenshots which are used by Prsm as an excuse to ban me TWICE!

It is clear that my spoken literature as well as the English language proficiency level is different from the mentioned messages. Apparently, I have a good grip on the English language. Screenshots can be edited and changed, and given 5 minutes, I can create screenshots in which Player X insults another Player's grandmother! This accusation is baseless and unproven in a situation where there is no evidence, no witnesses and nothing is recorded in the system messages and logs.

Also, the moderator's behavior in blocking me twice is completely illogical. A "ban" means that the player does not use the game, and I have not used the game during this period, due to the announcement of being banned by Prsm. Which is why his entire argument is not rational and logical.
It does not matter if you spend two years in prison without the judge reading the sentence directly to you, what matters is that you have spent two years in prison . Especially on a baseless ruling simply because you have been a critic of the person issuing the sentence in the past, and he hates you for that reason and probably other reasons. Every logical person will agree that depriving a user of the game is literally and technically punishing him. It does not matter if we click on Prism's favorite ban button or not. Let alone such a verdict to be groundless and without genuine evidence.

Let us accept that fair judgment, free from bias and personal opinions, should be the basic principle in solving the problems of this user community.

The history of the world also shows us that the existence of absolute power for a long period has been problematic and dangerous throughout history and has led to the cult of personality, the violation of the rights of others, and the destruction of societies. I hereby request that in cases where managers do not have sufficient evidence to convict a player, the matter be made public and examined more carefully before the user is banned.

P.S: Also I have received hate speech and insults in Polish from that player and I have proofs for that, yet I choose not to share them publicly unless I am asked to privately send them to other (non-biased) admins for their review.

Prsm, I respectfully ask you to rethink your actions and do not abuse the power and authority given to you by the votes of the community members. I do appreciate you for all you had done for this game but in this case, you are acting biased and wrongful.

"Success always calls for greater generosity — though most people, lost in the darkness of their own egos, treat it as an occasion for greater greed."
Cyrus the Great

User avatar
prsm
Game Master
Game Master
Posts: 1547
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 18:18

Re: [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by prsm »

i welcome the thoughts of the admins and community.

ftr i did a search on what Omido calls his second ban. Here is the only hits i found.
Feel free to prove me wrong since the gm logs are open to everyone.

Code: Select all

[2012-03-17 19:19:50] 009-2.gat(28,104) Big Crunch(2160466) : @ban 1d omido
[2012-03-26 01:33:35] 018-3.gat(135,86) Big Crunch(2160466) : @ban 3d omido
[2012-03-29 04:25:29] 009-1.gat(49,36) Prsm(2102937) : @ban 7d omido
[2012-06-14 17:06:42] 009-1.gat(52,40) mrgrey(2096247) : @ban 1h omido
[2012-08-07 18:56:25] 009-1.gat(52,34) Prsm(2102937) : @ban 1m omido
[2012-10-05 03:35:48] 011-1.gat(47,67) Prsm(2102937) : @ban 1d omido
[2012-10-23 07:32:34] 027-2.gat(85,40) omido(2204265) : @ban +5mn omido
[2021-04-11 18:01:24] 012-4(488,83) Prsm(2102937) : @ban 60d omido
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
User avatar
prsm
Game Master
Game Master
Posts: 1547
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 18:18

Re: Overturned [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by prsm »

TMWC will accept Omido's 60 day self ban for punishment.

It was noted since this is his second ban for insults, the next ban (if it
should occur) will be a permanent one!

ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
User avatar
Cyrus the Great
Peon
Peon
Posts: 20
Joined: 27 Feb 2012, 00:12

Re: Overturned [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by Cyrus the Great »

I would like to thank the TMWC for their valid decision and I also thank Prsm for writing this.

I am deeply sorry for any inconveniences that this topic might have caused admins or other members.

Respectfully, as I continue to deny the charge of insult, I hereby ask TMWC to kindly continue their investigation into the mentioned allegations (the mentioned insult). To help them with this matter, I have provided one of the admins with logs and necessary information on my part to continue investigating the case. I also kindly ask the admins to check the accuracy and originality of the involved screenshots.

What is more important is the fact that throughout the history of TMW, screenshots were never accepted as proof by admins, game masters and community:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17895
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=13221
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11410
There had been a multitude of cases where the entire case was rejected because screenshots are not considered to prove anything. How come screenshots are suddenly treated like forensic evidence is very questionable as everybody knows they can be manipulated, made and edited.

Apparently, as in with real-world, guilty people often try to submit false documents and rigged evidence to the police and authorities. That's why I believe this might be the case in this situation. This is extremely important as a false accusations can ruin the reputation of an innocent person and have a lasting effect on both the person and the community.

Please also note that I am willing to co-operate on the matter and I prefer not to log in until the investigations are over.

Thank you again.

"Success always calls for greater generosity — though most people, lost in the darkness of their own egos, treat it as an occasion for greater greed."
Cyrus the Great

User avatar
kytty
Cutest Game Master
Cutest Game Master
Posts: 104
Joined: 19 Oct 2019, 00:23

Re: Overturned [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by kytty »

I am going to write this to support Prsm's decision on Omido's 60 day ban

From the rules "breaking the following rules may be banned for any length of time or have their characters reset at a GM's discretion" I want to point out Prsm decision was correct. I don't see anywhere in the rules that GMs have to ban the players immediately after the offense, waiting for Omido to log in was nice from Prsm, as to make sure the ban works, since this game gives many surprises. (BUGS)

Prsm was being nice, from my point of view, by banning Omido once he logged in. If it would of been me taking care of the decision he would be long time gone banned permanently. (Omido has broken the rules many times, and there is a lot of evidence)

Omido has been a disrespectful person since he started playing TMW, and he has been disrespectful to me as well.

PS. Omido should be glad Prsm was the one banning him :)

Another thing,
"Omido: I supposed I was banned.... I was gone for 90 days"
players don't decide themselves how much time they will be banned. A good GM will always wait for the person to log in to tell them why they are about to be banned, and to make sure it works fine :) :)

User avatar
prsm
Game Master
Game Master
Posts: 1547
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 18:18

Re: Overturned [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by prsm »

Cyrus the Great wrote: 12 Apr 2021, 21:41

I would like to thank the TMWC for their valid decision and I also thank Prsm for writing this.

I am deeply sorry for any inconveniences that this topic might have caused admins or other members.

Respectfully, as I continue to deny the charge of insult, I hereby ask TMWC to kindly continue their investigation into the mentioned allegations (the mentioned insult). To help them with this matter, I have provided one of the admins with logs and necessary information on my part to continue investigating the case. I also kindly ask the admins to check the accuracy and originality of the involved screenshots.

What is more important is the fact that throughout the history of TMW, screenshots were never accepted as proof by admins, game masters and community:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17895
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=13221
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11410
There had been a multitude of cases where the entire case was rejected because screenshots are not considered to prove anything. How come screenshots are suddenly treated like forensic evidence is very questionable as everybody knows they can be manipulated, made and edited.

Apparently, as in with real-world, guilty people often try to submit false documents and rigged evidence to the police and authorities. That's why I believe this might be the case in this situation. This is extremely important as a false accusations can ruin the reputation of an innocent person and have a lasting effect on both the person and the community.

Please also note that I am willing to co-operate on the matter and I prefer not to log in until the investigations are over.

Thank you again.

I am glad you feel good, and don't feel like you have to pity me, like your PM said. I don't believe I need professional help like you insinuated.

I am also sorry you had to deal with racial slurs, but you never brought it to my attention nor did it come from me.

I am a grown man, and i do stand on my own 2 feet. I always represent my words and I always admit my short comings.

I also agree i did not share screenshots of you insulting another player, out of respect for that player. They didnt need the world to see what you said.

This is a 2D game i have never felt "Heroic" over it. I also feel I am not a tyrant, like your pm said ..........

But lets be perfectly clear! My job is to enforce rules .... and I will do that.

Please don't send me an insult ridden pm again, I know i didnt deserve it! My record proves it!

Code: Select all

Prsm
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
User avatar
jesusalva
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 666
Joined: 14 Nov 2016, 23:20
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: Overturned [Ban] 60 days Omido

Post by jesusalva »

A commission belonging to The Mana World Team, in an odd number, composed by devs and admins, has reunited and spent the whole afternoon examining every intricacy of the case and documents submitted by both parties.

What we found out was that it was tampered and we cannot say for certain who tampered what, but whoever did it abused from the whole team's good faith and from the GMs good will, AND THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES if we ever find out who tampered with them.*

Anyway... In dubio pro reo, plausible deniability; The commission was not convinced on Omido's innocence but it was not convinced on his guilty either, and from the gathered proofs it was not possible to draw out a conclusive verdict, reason which, TMWT overturn the ban.

As a side note, both had mild insults, and using a different language to someone who doesn't speak said language is... not exactly a kind thing, so please refrain from that. Veiled insults are still insults.

And ManaPlus has an ignore function, please use it and contact a GM with @wgm as soon as abuse starts instead of waiting for things to grow out of control and involving people who are more concerned with the reason why we are all here in first place: To build together a nice world, community, and have fun together!

There won't be a second time. You both are grown up, the staff was on scene less than ten minutes after the report, and I'm sure they'll be there equally as quick if this happen again.

Locking the thread as this is a court house, not a debate or a showroom.

* TMW currently doesn't log messages for the users privacy, but if abused this will unfortunately change. So please don't abuse.

Jesusalva (aka. Jesusaves)
Locked