The Mana World Forums

lol the boobs are HUGE i didint see what you guys said when you said it needs to be done so i gessed it needed boobs thoughs are some pornstar boobs too

Ok so crush said i should make a new topic lol
what does the female player sheet need to be called "Finished"?

uhm, i think nipples r missing

LOL well there is going to be some kind of eqipment over them at all time so lol tahts useless

Tenche wrote:LOL well there is going to be some kind of eqipment over them at all time so lol tahts useless

it's just a detail

here the current male spriteset:



oh, and just as a precaution:
http://images.fok.nl/upload/050701_3056 ... obsfok.jpg

You know i'd say 90% of artists try to draw things realistically... as they are in nature or whatever. But 100% of the male artists i have seen the work of -- myself included -- draw boobs like that. Not like they are but how we want them to be. i think it's great too.
But that tutorial was probably right, and also very good. Humor and good drawing (even if it was anime), and the idea of a guide for drawing written purely with illustrations is such a good idea you wonder why they aren't all like that.

BUT the boobs aren't really the worst part. She's got too much upperbody strength. Women are more dainty in the shoulders and the arms than the character displays. If kept as it is, women will definitely not identify with this character. More importantly, if you play this character in an animation or the game or whatever you will keep thinking there's something off about her... something wrong, though you can't put your finger on it. Well i'm putting my finger on it-- the way she walks will be all wrong. Men walk outwards, women walk inwards. Try it. Right now. Women walk with their footprints making almost a straight line. Men walk with their legs spread a little more and their feet pointing slightly outwards (more like the current sprite does).

I agree with Ultim... mostly.
Also the head needs to be edited. Eventhough it is a bit boy like the jaw should be slimmer. Maybe the eyes could use a subtle underline to give a more eyelashed feel.

Well i'm putting my finger on it-- the way she walks will be all wrong. Men walk outwards, women walk inwards. Try it. Right now. Women walk with their footprints making almost a straight line. Men walk with their legs spread a little more and their feet pointing slightly outwards (more like the current sprite does).

Well, maybe... or maybe not. But do you dare to point if such difference is biological or cultural? because if its the later (I don't know) then it is not an issue for us.

It's biological. Of course, the Amazon women might walk different. But they're just one culture that has rewired its people to behave differently. Bottom line being people will recognize the kind of walk i specified as feminine, not the current one.

It's biological.

How do you know?

Pajarico wrote:

It's biological.

How do you know?

Women dont have the same form on their hip bone as men.

i doubt that this is the only reason, but i support the proposal that the female sprites should have a more feminine gait.

Examples from Chrono Trigger:




while the legs of the male characters are always next to each other and separated the legs of the female characters are closer together and overlap each other during the contact phase.

Tarm wrote:

Pajarico wrote:

It's biological.

How do you know?

Women dont have the same form on their hip bone as men.

In part yes, and in part no. I don't deny biological differencies but most of the walking movements that we call "femenine" are assimilated IMO. I have seen girls walking in different ways and the more "femenine" (i.e. walking in a line) their walking was, the more "femenine" their personality was, and I mean with this that they liked to make-up, women clothes, don't play sports, don't drink too much, never swear, never got into a fight... what the classic falocentric "femenine" look has established for use
On the other hand I met girls who were the opposite to that view: played football, drank, wore tracks instead of skirts or more or less tight jeans, swore, spit... And those girls had a woman physical appearance (i.e. weren't masculine looking or "tomboys") but walked like men and did things that were tipically only for men; they just didn't take the gender role and tried to do what found good or funny or just what fit with their personalities instead of being porgrammed.
Of course there are biological differences, but I think the gender roles are imposed since you are born. And in different societies, different gender roles.
Sure somes are gonna think I'm taking this too seriously but to me the hyped cultural background we are looking for should take this into consideration.

Actually I could cut my thread and said "As long as it doesn't walk like a top-model I'm cool with it ".

Crush Good example artistically speaking but not creatively speaking.

Women wearing thongs and bras are a boringcliché. Yes, I know you posted it because of the movement, but still. That's what I don't like about certain games, the creators put some effort into creating a phantasy world and when they come to women chars they just beat that dead horse again and again.

My aim when i'm pulling something off my imagination is too be original and different but at the same time keep a link to the present reality:

For example: I'm drawing a cart, so I will keep my eye to make a good cart that looks good, original, etc. But I will never try to touch up the whells because its a device that works and has little improvement
If its recognisable in the present it doesn't matter. Because that's my link to a symbol on the present time.

A wheel is a wheel, and fire is fire, whatever the culture is. But the clothes or the way of acting or walking for a woman is not. That's why I don't see legit taking such licenses (thongs and bras, "femenine" walking, etc) and using it as those "links to present realities or symbols".

I hope you did understand what I'm trying to say .

PS: All I have said is based entirelly on my experience.

Pajarico wrote:In part yes, and in part no. I don't deny biological differencies but most of the walking movements that we call "femenine" are assimilated IMO. I have seen girls walking in different ways and the more "femenine" (i.e. walking in a line) their walking was, the more "femenine" their personality was, and I mean with this that they liked to make-up, women clothes, don't play sports, don't drink too much, never swear, never got into a fight... what the classic falocentric "femenine" look has established for use
On the other hand I met girls who were the opposite to that view: played football, drank, wore tracks instead of skirts or more or less tight jeans, swore, spit... And those girls had a woman physical appearance (i.e. weren't masculine looking or "tomboys") but walked like men and did things that were tipically only for men; they just didn't take the gender role and tried to do what found good or funny or just what fit with their personalities instead of being porgrammed.

The question would then be, are the first or the last ones forcing there walking ways? Perhaps those who play football etc. are making huge efforts to (no offense to your friends, please!) look less "feminine", because they just feel they're programmed.
I think this is a debate with no absolute truth. You may reach a unanimous veredict in this forum, but still some will feel like it's wrong.
In my humble, unworthy (since I have no active participation in TMW's development ) opinion, it's not such a big deal.

Let's just end that discussion right there with this statement:

If males and females walk (or whatever) differently ingame, it's easier to quickly distinguish males from females. I think the only point that should count is that the male playerset is clearly male and the female playerset is clearly female. If later on some feminists or whatever come and attack us, I'll personally take the blame and fight them off. Until then, let's concentrate on making the female playerset pretty looking and perky.