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Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 02 Mar 2008, 15:22
by 5t3v3
i wrote:Image
Don't forget the invisible wall problem again. Right now, the only way to block a path is by blocking a whole tile. So you can't put an invisible wall in between two adjacent "walkable" tiles. I think the best sollution is to make the whole circle unwalkable, except for the first step which would be a portal.

Oh, and perhaps a fence around the circle, would be nice to. Just a suggestion :D

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 02 Mar 2008, 15:48
by i
5t3v3 wrote:
i wrote:Image
Don't forget the invisible wall problem again. Right now, the only way to block a path is by blocking a whole tile. So you can't put an invisible wall in between two adjacent "walkable" tiles. I think the best sollution is to make the whole circle unwalkable, except for the first step which would be a portal.

Oh, and perhaps a fence around the circle, would be nice to. Just a suggestion :D
I thought about making walkable only first step. However, I'm not mapper. I just draw tiles.

--edit--

I realized that mine bricks look odd, and I draw something larger... and I said WOW! It looks far better than I expected.

--edit--
new wall mockup

--edit--
complete mini-tileset for making new walls - could someone test it?

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 02 Mar 2008, 22:38
by Crush
I am not sure about these walls. They look so... RPGMakerish.

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 02 Mar 2008, 22:49
by i
Crush wrote:I am not sure about these walls. They look so... RPGMakerish.
So what's wrong with that they look RPGMakerish? I draw it from scratch. And I think they look far better that old small bricks. These blocks looks massive. It's good for arena or prison. I'm going to forget about old bricks - they will be used maybe in town.

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 02 Mar 2008, 22:58
by Crush
The problem with the RPGMaker look is that it looks ripped and not original.

Maybe you should remove the shadow at the ground. All the other tilesets only use this for indoor areas.

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 02 Mar 2008, 23:07
by i
Crush wrote:The problem with the RPGMaker look is that it looks ripped and not original.

Maybe you should remove the shadow at the ground. All the other tilesets only use this for indoor areas.
Crush don't get me wrong, but this gradient on bottom makes this wall a bit "dirtier". All the time everyone was talking about that my wall was too clean. It's good technique so why should I not use it here?

So what's the problem? It's not ripped, not based on anything. It just look similar. I thought that TMW could look similar to other well drawn RPGs. Not only RPGmakers tiles uses gradient shadows at the ground.

---edit---
preview:
Image

tileset (ver. 0.0.1):
Image

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 03 Mar 2008, 04:12
by Len
I believe its a vast improvement
Not only RPGmakers tiles uses gradient shadows at the ground.
Image

of course not its a professional technique and we should make good use of it

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 03 Mar 2008, 11:26
by i
Len wrote:I believe its a vast improvement
So do I :)

It still got some minor glitches. Doors bevel is slightly out of style now. So I'm going to change that.
Image

This tileset it technically different that concrete wall one. Its more simpler, easier to map and more intuitive. I think that's the right way we should go on.

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 03 Mar 2008, 11:41
by Rotonen
I'm starting to like the doors too. Just try to make them a bit more integrated into the wall instead of seeming like glue-on props.

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 03 Mar 2008, 15:00
by i
Rotonen wrote:I'm starting to like the doors too. Just try to make them a bit more integrated into the wall instead of seeming like glue-on props.
Integration started...

Image

still shadowless, detail less, just conception.

--edit--
Image
0.0.2

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 04 Mar 2008, 01:52
by Jetryl
Crush wrote:The problem with the RPGMaker look is that it looks ripped and not original.
Ah, but WHY does "the RPGMaker look" tend to look ripped?

There is of course no definitive answer, but I suspect it has nearly everything to do with the fact that most RPGMaker games tend to have inconsistent art components. The "ripped look" comes not from the style of map art, but the fact that the map art doesn't match the sprites walking on it, and/or the props placed on it. It also comes from association; from the fact that lots of RPGMaker games happen to have ripped content in them, so those people familiar with playing RPGMaker games assume when seeing other RPGMaker games that content in them is going to be ripped. But when you look at a pure RPGMaker game; with nothing but official content, it doesn't have the cheap mismatch that makes it look ripped. The same can be true of TMW.

Also - the old tileset had as much mismatch with the sprites as the new one, so the problem of looking ripped is already quite present in the game. This really doesn't worsen anything, and moving towards "better art across the board" is the best solution to what ails this game.
i wrote:
Len wrote:I believe its a vast improvement
So do I :)
I also think it looks a hell of a lot better. :D

For some advice: look at that SOM3 screenshot. There are two things worth imitating from that:
1] On all the "upper edges facing towards the viewer" of things like the crenelations, railings, or even steps, they don't use a dark line for the edge - in fact they basically indicate it with a slight bright line, but mostly just a brightness difference between the upper surface, and the forward surface.
2] That's the other thing - make the upper surface a different brightness than the surface facing in the forward (towards the bottom of the screen) direction. It doesn't have to be much, but if it were a bit more than what you've got on yours right now, I think it'd really help.

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 04 Mar 2008, 12:21
by i
I made upper surface a bit brighter and add bright bevel in front of top brick. I'm considering adding brighter thin bevel on left side of every top surface. In fact it would eliminate dark outline.

Image

--edit--

I got some new conceptions to discuss.

1. Rounded corners - should they be:
- low rounded: easier to map
- high rounded: better outlook, harder to map

2. Tower tiles:
- perfect circle shape in correct perspective (better outlook, but some additional tiles used only for tower), or
- build using high rounded corners (a bit strange)

Image

So what do you think?

--edit--
I think that high rounded corners are very useful. They can be used for making guard posts like in Modanung's Tulimshar walls:
Image

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 04 Mar 2008, 20:53
by Modanung
I love the big stones and tall merlons. Good work.

One thing though, I think the floor stands out too much in relation to the dark bottom of the wall. Maybe the floor should be darker. Oh and also it looks strange to me how the stone under the door and window aren't dark as the surrounding stones.

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 05 Mar 2008, 00:37
by Saphy
i wrote:I made upper surface a bit brighter and add bright bevel in front of top brick. I'm considering adding brighter thin bevel on left side of every top surface. In fact it would eliminate dark outline.

Image

--edit--

I got some new conceptions to discuss.

1. Rounded corners - should they be:
- low rounded: easier to map
- high rounded: better outlook, harder to map
Instead of just making the very button brick tile darker, how about make the 2rd, 3rd, and 4th tile graduately darker as well. As of now, it looks as if the bottom was burnt, instead of radiosity.

The arch on top of the door looks funny. I believe the bottom part of the arch at the top should be thinner.

Re: concrete walls (outdoor arena tileset)

Posted: 05 Mar 2008, 11:09
by ElvenProgrammer
Just a note: it seems as the merlons are just placed over the bricks, and they seem quite unstable, as they could sleep away. Maybe inglobating them into abigger brick would give a stronger feeling.