The Mana World Forums

2nd try

Still not enough space for a player to enter. And what's that weird looking black spot on the right side of the opening? Try making it a bit more organic.

It’s not a bloody door, cave entrances are not usually easily accessible!

Len wrote:
It’s not a bloody door, cave entrances are not usually easily accessible!

You are right: it is more realistic. But I am thinking gameplay wise. If you intend for a player to be able to walk into the cave, you need one tile that is mostly free of other things, thus giving the player the cue that "hey, I think I can walk into here!" If you don't do that, the player might think it's just scenery and they will never bother to check if they can actually go inside the cave. This is a case where gameplay needs to take precedence over realism.

Len wrote:

My point exactly. With the rocks in the background, it looks like you cannot walk through it. With the example on the right, since one tile is (mostly) uncovered, it makes an obvious opening. Compare the two a little closer.

Pauan wrote:

Len wrote:
:wink:

My point exactly. With the rocks in the background, it looks like you cannot walk through it. With the example on the right, since one tile is (mostly) uncovered, it makes an obvious opening. Compare the two a little closer.

Pauan, Len: I think that cave size and shape are good enough to leave it as it is. I recommend making also 2nd version with green plants in entrance which are blocking it. Also I ensure you that every RPG player will check is that entrance or not. It just look like cave, so size of hole doesn't really matters. Remember that the entrance hole need to be at least of size head with protective gears (hat & goggles). That is what the caves explorers used to say.

My verdict:
********** (8/10)

My main worry is with the rock in the background. Shift it a few pixels to the right and I'll be happy. It's the darker one that's a little faded out.

Pauan wrote:My main worry is with the rock in the background. Shift it a few pixels to the right and I'll be happy. It's the darker one that's a little faded out. :)

I understand your point of view, but now (for future purposes) try to understand ours. Path in cave doesn't need to be straight line. I'm fond of tmw "linearity". Since we got pixel based movement in trunk something like lack of linear placement isn't really big problem. Remember that player learns too. When they will be used to moving freely this rock is nothing that stops them from checking that entrance.

i wrote:

Pauan wrote:My main worry is with the rock in the background. Shift it a few pixels to the right and I'll be happy. It's the darker one that's a little faded out.

I understand your point of view, but now (for future purposes) try to understand ours. Path in cave doesn't need to be straight line. I'm fond of tmw "linearity". Since we got pixel based movement in trunk something like lack of linear placement isn't really big problem. Remember that player learns too. When they will be used to moving freely this rock is nothing that stops them from checking that entrance.

Ah right, I forgot about the pixel-based movement for a moment there; my apologies. All things considered, I would still like the rock in the far back shifted a little, but aside from that I agree it should work just fine.

Not to strike a repetitive chord, in regards to variation, but I just think it's important to consider the fact that other cave entrances can be made. ..this one already looks very nice, so why over analyze it? How about letting this first cave entrance be for a moment and move on to a second cave entrance? I don't know how many we'll really need, but at least one more couldn't hurt.

..and on a related note

i wrote:I recommend making also 2nd version with green plants in entrance which are blocking it.

..somewhat needless to say, but I'll say it anyway.. I think that's a good idea.

Len wrote:

I like the new version the most, but it looks like a bit low, I wander if its possible for the second version (because I think the first version is ok) create an entrance going down in the ground.

something like, dig in dust first and then the entrance going down, that will give more room at the top with out modify the whole cliff, I don't know if I explain my self clearly

Why should it be easy to enter a cave?
Its totally correct the way it is atm

Matt wrote:Why should it be easy to enter a cave?
Its totally correct the way it is atm

May be because the char can't crunch ?

Well that is the problem of the playerset, not of the forest tileset