The Mana World Forums

Here's the image Platyna approved:

That is the red turtleneck sweater.

jaxad0127 wrote:Here's the image Platyna approved:

That is the red turtleneck sweater.

The queen of hearts

Well, it is major enough to pass as a chest piece all right.

Platyna wrote:There are no technical difficulties against making it visible

If it will be invisible then I am against implementing it, since its invisibility will give unfair advantage later on. Also I heard Elven and Bjorn telling they don't want invisible items in game.

Regards.

As unthinkable as I know it might seem, you guys aren't natural-born experts at this. You make a lot of bad design decisions like this, and then you dig in your heels and refuse to change. This is why I'm not a regular contributor to the project.

Suggestion:
If you want to make TMW both look better (by unified design in clothing - e.g. having outfits actually interact with themselves), and get art faster, I would actually go so far as to suggest stripping visible equipment types down to 1] whole-body armor (pants, shoes, torso, gloves), 2] helmets, 3] primary weapons, and 4] shields. I'd also suggest changing your character set to face to the SW, and the NW - by mirroring you can get 4 directions that way, and have only 2 directions of actual sprites that need to be drawn. Yes, you'd have to throw out a lot of art, but all of the player art and props right now are bad and need to be redone anyways - with less art to try and manage, you might actually succeed at making it look good.

At the very, very least, don't create new categories of art, like necklaces. They'll never look good (try finding a commercial game that succeeds at this size), and they're yet another "black hole" that can potentially suck up an infinite amount of art effort.


Some people's minds are like cement. All mixed up and permanently set.

Jetryl wrote:At the very, very least, don't create new categories of art, like necklaces.

O_o The necklace is a shirt.

Well, I like the image, however I would prefer the necklace to be on red, since the heart is also red. IRL I would never wear red to brown of this shade. To make jewelry visible we have to make them big, and if they are big there are no logical obstacles to make it a shirt.

Of course I would prefer a separate slot for jewelry, but I prefer nice work in game now than later.

Also, those so eager to compare this to rap attribute, see the image attached.

Regards.

Platyna wrote:Well, I like the image, however I would prefer the necklace to be on red, since the heart is also red. IRL I would never wear red to brown of this shade.

It is on red. The shirt is the red version of the turtleneck sweater. I'll try it on some of the other dyed shirts.

For me it is brown. Red it is what is inside the heart and on crown.

Regards.

Jetryl wrote:

Platyna wrote:There are no technical difficulties against making it visible

If it will be invisible then I am against implementing it, since its invisibility will give unfair advantage later on. Also I heard Elven and Bjorn telling they don't want invisible items in game.

Regards.

As unthinkable as I know it might seem, you guys aren't natural-born experts at this. You make a lot of bad design decisions like this, and then you dig in your heels and refuse to change. This is why I'm not a regular contributor to the project.

Suggestion:
If you want to make TMW both look better (by unified design in clothing - e.g. having outfits actually interact with themselves), and get art faster, I would actually go so far as to suggest stripping visible equipment types down to 1] whole-body armor (pants, shoes, torso, gloves), 2] helmets, 3] primary weapons, and 4] shields. I'd also suggest changing your character set to face to the SW, and the NW - by mirroring you can get 4 directions that way, and have only 2 directions of actual sprites that need to be drawn. Yes, you'd have to throw out a lot of art, but all of the player art and props right now are bad and need to be redone anyways - with less art to try and manage, you might actually succeed at making it look good.
.

I completely agree with you (it would be great to redo the fetus looking player sprites)
Also treating equipment as an abstract has been utilized in many professional MMORPGs

Ok, but for now we have what we have, the neclace is nice, so let's bring it into the game.

Regards.

Here's the final version Platyna approved.

The shirt is the cotton shirt, using the same dye as the red skirt.

Yet again, for pseudo content I don't really care, but not going into the final product by a longshot.

We should probably at some point actually have some structure and positional workflows in our development.

I still think a neck slot should be added. There are valid items that could go there. Like neck ties, bow ties, ascots, neckerchiefs, etc.

Look, guys, I do appreciate your skills, but honestly, someone posts a nice proposal, then there pops up people moaning about pseudocontent, and the great ideas are getting killed.

This is open source game under development, I can't believe we can't make content that can't be improved or used as idea for future versions.

Would be, for example, so very hard to remove the shirt from under the necklace when we add neck slot?

Some people said it is rap like and some people supported the idea (including me).

I am rarely posting here, I am far from bashing or flaming you, however we have so many work wasted just because people pops up and tells the author of the work that it is pointless or will be pointless in the nearest future. I don't like this.

Regards.

Actually in this case the author of the piece in question is telling it is pointless and was meant as an inventory icon. And no, Dimond is not the author, she merely provided the concept and then retrofitted the piece on top of the playerset.

We don't want a lot of one pixel ornaments on the player. Sure, per se, you can make it look good in theory, but with a detailed armor, a fancy helmet, leg armor, boots, weaponry/shields wouldn't it be a bit overkill to throw in there a neck slot? A slot for a cloak/cape would go, but not jewellery.

In most recent and succesful MMORPGs you cannot see everything a character wears by just looking at it, even in the 3D ones. You see the most dominant pieces of equipment and that's it. This is a deliberate design choice: you don't want to clutter the characters with detail. This is especially true in our case when we have a far more limited space to work with.