The Mana World Forums

Has anyone seen or talk to Fother recently? I have not run into him since I started my hiatus.

So, to get to a lower level of discussion here, is my list of animations accepted and standing or are we still discussing what we're actually doing here?

Rotonen wrote:No question about inclusion:

Stand
Walk
Run
Stab (dagger)
Stab (javelin)
One hand swing (+ potential shield) - all weapons (I prefer overhead)
Two arm swing - all weapons (I prefer an overhead swing)
Archery
Spell casting/invokation/chanting
Dead frame

Some question about inclusion:

Polearm swing/stab
Firearms/crossbows
Horizontal swings
Idle animations
Sleeping
Battle stance

As in since no one commented on this, we're going to have all of these and only these? For example the getting hurt frame was not there.

Also, there seems to be a technical restriction which is driving our artists nuts: spriteset layering. We need to be able to give our animation artists control over that or it's going to seriously impair animation design here. Any estimation for how soon this would be done since it is also a technical block for releasing CR1?

Rotonen wrote:So, to get to a lower level of discussion here, is my list of animations accepted and standing or are we still discussing what we're actually doing here?

Rotonen wrote:No question about inclusion:

Stand
Walk
Run
Stab (dagger)
Stab (javelin)
One hand swing (+ potential shield) - all weapons (I prefer overhead)
Two arm swing - all weapons (I prefer an overhead swing)
Archery
Spell casting/invokation/chanting
Dead frame

Some question about inclusion:

Polearm swing/stab
Firearms/crossbows
Horizontal swings
Idle animations
Sleeping
Battle stance

As in since no one commented on this, we're going to have all of these and only these? For example the getting hurt frame was not there.

Also, there seems to be a technical restriction which is driving our artists nuts: spriteset layering. We need to be able to give our animation artists control over that or it's going to seriously impair animation design here. Any estimation for how soon this would be done since it is also a technical block for releasing CR1?

We need to design a system that will give us more control before we can implement it.

I have a idea in my head about how we can do it, but I have not looked into seeing if its practical

Source of inspiration (http://www.hbgames.org/forums/viewtopic ... 59&t=67574):

With Rotonen's list of must have movements :
Stand
Walk
Run
Stab (dagger)
Stab (javelin)
One hand swing (+ potential shield) - all weapons (I prefer overhead)
Two arm swing - all weapons (I prefer an overhead swing)
Archery
Spell casting/invokation/chanting
Dead frame

Plus Irukard's example :

sword-Block (no shield)
sword-Dodge
sword-swing attack (can be same as tow arms swing attack)
sword-stab attack
magic-attack
magic-invocation

I come to the next list (more like a wish list) :

1. Hand wield arms
1.1 sword
1.1.1 swing
1.1.2 block
1.1.3 stab
1.1.4 dodge and parry
1.1.5 special attack
1.2 shield
1.2.1 block
1.2.2 push forward
1.2.3 stun attack (with the shield)
1.3 Dagger
1.3.1 stab
1.3.2 dodge
1.3.4 swing
1.3.5 special attack
1.4 hammer (maze)
1.4.1 attack
1.4.2 block
1.4.3 special attack
1.5 Spear
1.5.1 stab
1.5.2 block
1.5.2 swing
1.5.3 special attack
2. Aim weapons (distance)
2.1 guns
2.1.1 aim
2.1.2 fire
2.1.3 close range defense and attack
2.1.4 special attack
2.2 Arcs
2.2.1 aim
2.2.2 fire
2.2.3 close range defense and attack
2.2.4 special attack
2.3 crossbow
2.3.1 aim
2.3.2 fire
2.3.3 close range defense and attack
2.3.4 special attack
3. Magic
3.1 cast
3.2 attack
3.3 defense
3.4 invocation
4. No fight movements
4.1 walk
4.2 seat
4.3 run
4.4 mounting
4.5 jumping
4.6 climbing (???)
4.7 crafting
4.8 fishing (???)
4.9 dying sequence and dead

Ok, and now back to reality.

There is simply no way to pixel all this for every piece of equipment.

Don't go that far, there is no way we can pixel all those movements, what I meant is we should pick some of the basic movements, (like walk, seat, dead...) plus sword as a first task, then we can add a new set of movements. that list can determine what is first and then stick to that until is done.

Crush wrote:Ok, and now back to reality.

There is simply no way to pixel all this for every piece of equipment.

Well if you would had let me kidnap those 12 Korean pixel artist....

Kage wrote:Well if you would had let me kidnap those 12 Korean pixel artist.... :cry:

Please do. You got my permission ;)

No block animation for weapons? Seems rather unnecessary.

Do we need or even want run?

Dodge animations can be recycled from phases of other animations if necessary. Otherwise you just move the sprite around a bit without new sprite shapes required. The same should go for getting hit animations.

Shield block effects can be done with a shield particle effect to save frames.

Special attacks should also rely on gimmicks (particle effects, frame recycling, moving the sprite) to fool the eye, not on actual base sprite animation.

Stun, push and others should also rely on frame recycling. That is if we even will need stuff like push. This would IMO fall into specials anyway.

So, to summarize a bit:

Stand
Walk
Sit
Dead
Run (necessary?)

Dagger attack
One hand swing attack with shield potential
Two hand swing attack
Attack animation for weapons which have a long stick in them

Bow
Crossbow/gun (necessary?)

Prepare magic
Cast magic (1 frame?)

Everything else I see as doable via gimmicks which do not drive our equipment artists insane. Minimalism is a really good goal here.

If I missed something or if you oppose anything, let me know. We need to sort this out.

I claim no authorship on the image. It is a derivative work.

It's been more of a learning experience than a productive one.
The shading part especially. Haven't been able to get anywhere.

Maybe it is worth your C&C?

Get well soon Fother plz.

I would be interested in some outline work. I am going to make the current player set an outline and see what I can do from there. If anyone disagrees with me about a new animation tell me what you suggest. For now I think I will work on this and If fother_j comes back my work may be disregarded and cr1 player-sets will continue off him but may barrow off of my attempted contribution. I hope nobody minds but I think we need to push this forward.

Fother_j I wish you well.

The work you will do here will not hurt the playerset project.

What is the most urgent thing here is to agree on the full and final locked down list of animations we're going to have for our playerset.

Did that last night in irc oh yea sorry for whoever caught the brief of that.

1.) Two hand swing attack
2.) Attack animation for weapons which have a long stick in them
3.) prep magic

I did a cheep quick skinning of the outline using a gimp tool. This is something to work with though and I will start here.

Edit: starting simple and using recycled graphics for the pre-magic animation. facing south. will this work?