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[WIP] Playerset - CR1 - NEEDS HELP

Posted: 26 Sep 2009, 16:23
by Rotonen
So, obviously, for release1, we'll want a full and finished playerset.

Gentlemen, where do we stand?

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 26 Sep 2009, 16:45
by bcs86
*dump*
player_male_base.png
Fother and I will be working together. I wish Modanung were still active in this case. We won't likely be using the side-to-side swing.
There has also been talk of "doll parts" I haven't seen an example of how that would be done.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 26 Sep 2009, 17:03
by Crush
Thanks for finally taking responsibility for this, bcs86 and Fother.

It looks like you want to have both a 2-hand swing and a 1-hand swing. May I suggest to cut one of them to keep the frame number low? Everyone who will pixel equipment sprites in the future will be grateful for every frame you save.

I would also like to see a more versatile stab animation which can be constructed mostly of frames from other animations. It should replace the current knife attack animation because the latter looks only good with knifes and is unusable for anything else.

Good luck with this task.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 26 Sep 2009, 17:12
by Rotonen
Rotonen wrote:No question about inclusion:

Stand
Walk
Run
Stab (dagger)
Stab (javelin)
One hand swing (+ potential shield) - all weapons (I prefer overhead)
Two arm swing - all weapons (I prefer an overhead swing)
Archery
Spell casting/invokation/chanting
Dead frame

Some question about inclusion:

Polearm swing/stab
Firearms/crossbows
Horizontal swings
Idle animations
Sleeping
Battle stance
This is actually what I've been demanding under the table. But yes, now is the moment to discuss this through.

Can we pull off shields if we only have a two-handed swing for weapons? Sure, we can just make the shield disappear during attacking, that's a design choice, but do we want to take this particular one?

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 26 Sep 2009, 20:14
by Black Don
Rotonen wrote:
Rotonen wrote:No question about inclusion:

Stand
Walk
Run
Stab (dagger)
Stab (javelin)
One hand swing (+ potential shield) - all weapons (I prefer overhead)
Two arm swing - all weapons (I prefer an overhead swing)
Archery
Spell casting/invokation/chanting
Dead frame

Some question about inclusion:

Polearm swing/stab
Firearms/crossbows
Horizontal swings
Idle animations
Sleeping
Battle stance
This is actually what I've been demanding under the table. But yes, now is the moment to discuss this through.

Can we pull off shields if we only have a two-handed swing for weapons? Sure, we can just make the shield disappear during attacking, that's a design choice, but do we want to take this particular one?
or two handed weapons give a big attack bonus but you don't get to use a shield. It could be a give and take.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 26 Sep 2009, 20:20
by Crush
I am not against 2-handed weapons from a gameplay point of view. I just think that it is not worth the effort to create an animation for it. We can use the 1-hand animation instead.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 27 Sep 2009, 00:25
by bcs86
Continuing on the two-handed motion...
twohand.gif
This one didn't turn out right either.
Still at it.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 27 Sep 2009, 09:31
by Rotonen
There was a question by Fother about NOT mirroring the one handed side attack frames.

Quality vs. reducing workload. I'd at this point finally be prone to lean towards reducing workload: not that many people will ever notice.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 27 Sep 2009, 09:40
by Crush
Let's see how the professionals are doing it (ragnarok online):
Image
Jup, they are mirroring.

Good luck finding a commercial game which does not take that shortcut. When noone in the industry bothers and no consumer or critic calls them out on it why should we bother?

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 27 Sep 2009, 15:52
by Jaxad0127
We'd have to forget about consistent lighting if we do. But we can always fix the shading later....

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 27 Sep 2009, 18:54
by bcs86
With regards to the two-handed motion...
Crush wrote:May I suggest to cut one of them to keep the frame number low?
Rotonen wrote:This is actually what I've been demanding under the table. But yes, now is the moment to discuss this through.
I'd appreciate knowing if the two handed attack motion is still wanted, else I would be wasting effort to create it. If not, I should work on one of the other motions.
Come to an agreement.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 27 Sep 2009, 19:04
by fate
Hi,

I'd vote against a specific two-handed attack animation (recall that each new sprite requires all existing equipment sprites to be updated with the current implementation approach to sprites.) I would like to request spellcasting animations instead, but only after the one-hand swing attack is done and shaded and pushed for both genders. We can do without explicit spellcasting animations for a while longer, but the lack of swing attacks is holding back lots of weapons.

Thanks for taking care of this! :-)

-- fate

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 27 Sep 2009, 19:19
by Crush
bcs86 wrote:I'd appreciate knowing if the two handed attack motion is still wanted, else I would be wasting effort to create it. If not, I should work on one of the other motions.
Come to an agreement.
As you can see this point is disputed. When we don't come to a clear consensus please look at all the arguments and decide for yourself.

My philosophy is that the people who get the actual work done should always have the last word in case of a discussion deadlock. Otherwise we would never get stuff done.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 27 Sep 2009, 20:13
by Rotonen
As far as I can see:

1) BlackDon has stated to fix the equipmentsets borked by the playerset revamp.
2) Fother would go even so far as to not allow mirroring.
3) bcs wants the two-handed swing in there.

I also want the two-handed swing in there: unlike mirroring, not many games out there stoop to nixing out the two handed weapon swing animation.

Re: [WIP] Finishing the playerset

Posted: 28 Sep 2009, 02:27
by fate
Hi,

just to quickly justify why I am against mirroring but would be fine with leaving out the two-handed attack: mirroring affects only one spritesheet and is very discernible; the two-handed attack affects all of them and is indiscernible if absent, by definition. ;-)

That being said, there is no official tmw policy on either count at this point, so I agree with Crush in letting the artists do their art and make their own choices in this matter. :-)

-- fate