Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

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Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Ledmitz » 24 Aug 2011, 04:15

I took some time to create a track specifically for The Mana World since this game is so great and free. I originally thought it would be good for the green slime area in Tulimshar by the beach, but I think that area may already have music. I think it would be well suited to a cave environment too. Give a listen and please give your 2 cents. The file is 6.66MB and thus over the 4MB limit for uploads here.

Title: Dreary Day
Format: Ogg
Download: https://1027485334116211372-a-180274477 ... ects=0&d=1
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by o11c » 24 Aug 2011, 05:08

This a quite a bit longer than most TMW music ... although not enough to directly affect this, there did seem to be some sections where the same pattern was held for several seconds.

Also, the overall volume is a bit too low.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Jael RD » 24 Aug 2011, 05:58

I like the track maybe for the new beach area in tulismar.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Crush » 24 Aug 2011, 12:54

I like the track in general.

But background music for games is not supposed to have an explicit beginning and end but to loop seamlessly. For that reason it should not have a long intro or outro but start with the main melody right away.

Segments of longer repetition are not actually a big problem for game BGM in my opinion, because it is, as the name says, supposed to be in the background and should not distract from what's happening in the game by surprising with sudden changes in composition.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Ledmitz » 26 Aug 2011, 22:14

I've been searching others posts so much, I forgot to reply to this one.
The Volume problem will be licked. It has been a while since I used any composing software. I forgot to check the recording level before I exported it. As for the repetition, I do also feel that it needs a change in key somewhere, almost an interlude, without changing the mood too much. As for the patterns themselves, there are not too many repeated more than a few times, but as the music builds it stays in the same key.
Looping is something that I did pretty nicely here, I thought, but I think what makes you think of the track starting over instead of continuing is that sort of scream/howl sound near the start of the track. I was thinking of removing it or making more ambient noise at the end of the track with similar sounds in it to mask a start and end point as I like the building and falling of the music, but if it is too short, then it is more noticable.
What do you guys think? and is there a time length or file size maximum for music files?
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Crush » 27 Aug 2011, 12:21

There is no technical limit to file size or length I am aware of.

When I am speaking about the intro, I am referring to everything before 1:20 which are basically just ambient sounds without melody and then the part up to 2:15 where you finally start with the main melody. I think the track would work better as a background music without such a long buildup. Then after 4:45 the song is basically "over" without almost any melody and from 6:00 on there are again just ambient noises.

Such a dramatic progression is absolutely the right thing to do when you compose music which is meant for listening to on its own. But it doesn't work for game music.

Just the core part between 2:15 and 4:45 would work much better as a game background music.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Ledmitz » 27 Aug 2011, 15:59

I don't know. I do get your point for sure, Crush. I guess it's my tinkering side that makes me not happy with just having the music, as is. I've seen other posts where people keep saying more ambient noise would be nice as opposed to a solid melody, so that's sort of what I built the track idea on. However, I want to make a solid loop also, to try your idea. The noises though, are waves and wind which I thought would be nice outside or even in an echo filled cave. I think I'll do one of each type to see overall reaction.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Crush » 27 Aug 2011, 18:37

I have nothing against the ambient noises. I am only against parts which are nothing BUT ambient noises.

I think it would be best when ambient noises wouldn't be part of the soundtrack but sound sources on the map instead. Unfortunately the client can't do that yet, so the BGM is the only way to have them.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Ledmitz » 28 Aug 2011, 01:48

I just dubbed out all ambient sections without music for this one. There is a recording issue yet, i think. I seem to hear a small hiss that I cannot seem to get rid of. I've narrowed it down to the Cello-string sound. The pitch of the hiss changes with the note the strings play. The only thing I can think to do is find another string sound, if this is actually the cause. It could be the PC speakers. They are a little temperamental. Do you hear the hiss I'm describing? NOT the wind or surf sounds, just the hiss.
Overall though, I agree it suits the game better to simply loop the music, but I think another section added in the lower volume, middle part would help to kill the monotony.
I find it strange to hear any background hiss when I am slightly redlining as it is.

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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by yubabax116 » 04 Sep 2011, 04:25

this track is very nice, but i dont see it suiting a enviroment as it should there are to many "waves" of different emotion in it and vibes. When we make tracks for places we try to keep the same feel to it (such as keeping creepy with creepy not creepy with touches of happy sounds). With a few edits and take aways from this track it would be great for a town or even a hut in some place.

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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Ledmitz » 04 Sep 2011, 15:22

Hi Yubaba, Thanks for replying. I've been playing more than making the past few days. Just checking posts now.
The problem, I see, with taking out the "happy sounds" is that there would be no melody left. I'm not really sure how it rectify this or how even to reply. I hear the "happy sounds" as being more inspirational in a dreary setting. I keep thinking of the greater games like Ocarina of Time and how the music changed so much in an open field, even without weather and location change. But, that gets me wondering further... is it possible to say... split a song into parts, have them load simultaneously on a map, but fade in/out tracks based on where you are on the map? This would definitely solve the mood change issue and would subconsciously make a player feel more suited to their environment, with less repetition. I've said in other posts how much I love the Graveyard track, how fitting it is, and how I go there just to hear the music. That's true, but after so long I end up turning the sound down because you need to spend a lot of time there to level up and the tune is so much the same all the way though that it becomes monotonous and droning if it plays for too long. It seems to be agreed upon by players I've spoken with too.
I am aware though that I tend to like tempo and key changes more than most. It's the only thing that keeps me from listening to more Rap music, more often; monotony. I've been trying hard to do those things without changing the mood too much, but maybe I'm trying too hard. I would love for more players to post their opinions.
In short, I can take the melody out of the song, but all that would be left is a sporadic, slow bass line, some SFX and a droning low pitch hum. I wouldn't really call that a music track, would you? I can do it though, if you really want me to. I have two more tracks to post as well, but I've been reluctant on doing so till I think the feedback would be more universally accepted. I'm trying to apply all previous feedback to them so they are closer to being accepted before I do.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by yubabax116 » 04 Sep 2011, 16:04

Ledmitz wrote:Hi Yubaba, Thanks for replying. I've been playing more than making the past few days. Just checking posts now.
The problem, I see, with taking out the "happy sounds" is that there would be no melody left. I'm not really sure how it rectify this or how even to reply. I hear the "happy sounds" as being more inspirational in a dreary setting.
Though inspirational music is wonderful to have in the game you can add inspirational music by just keeping the enviroment set to what it is. such as inspirational battle music. Immediate music for example for a boss, it gets the person going most times and it still keeps the setting to what it is.
Ledmitz wrote:is it possible to say... split a song into parts, have them load simultaneously on a map, but fade in/out tracks based on where you are on the map?.
sadly no, you can only have 1 track per map. I asked about this with candor because i wanted to compose before/after music for the battle.
Ledmitz wrote:I've said in other posts how much I love the Graveyard track, how fitting it is, and how I go there just to hear the music. That's true, but after so long I end up turning the sound down because you need to spend a lot of time there to level up and the tune is so much the same all the way though that it becomes monotonous and droning if it plays for too long. It seems to be agreed upon by players I've spoken with too.
I am aware though that I tend to like tempo and key changes more than most. It's the only thing that keeps me from listening to more Rap music, more often; monotony. I've been trying hard to do those things without changing the mood too much, but maybe I'm trying too hard. In short, I can take the melody out of the song, but all that would be left is a sporadic, slow bass line, some SFX and a droning low pitch hum. I wouldn't really call that a music track, would you? I can do it though, if you really want me to. I have two more tracks to post as well, but I've been reluctant on doing so till I think the feedback would be more universally accepted. I'm trying to apply all previous feedback to them so they are closer to being accepted before I do.
you dont need to take a melody out and not replace it with something else that wouldnt be a track, its why you experiment and see which fits best before saying ok thats the draft i want to work on and edit. its always good to make other sample tracks so you can see which fits with what to best suit the enviroment. Also for the gy track, i wanted to do some editing on that when i get the chance.

anyway good luck and cheers!
feel free to pm me or go on irc if you have questions, id like to talk to you about the sfx's for magic sometime.

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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Crush » 04 Sep 2011, 16:10

Ledmitz wrote:I keep thinking of the greater games like Ocarina of Time and how the music changed so much in an open field, even without weather and location change. But, that gets me wondering further... is it possible to say... split a song into parts, have them load simultaneously on a map, but fade in/out tracks based on where you are on the map? This would definitely solve the mood change issue and would subconsciously make a player feel more suited to their environment, with less repetition.
The audio engine of the Mana client is too basic to do anything like that.

While the suggestion to have situational music came up a lot in the past, I haven't read a concept for that yet which is detailed enough for a programmer to implement.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by o11c » 04 Sep 2011, 16:42

You can have status effects, though, with start-audio and end-audio.
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Re: Soundtrack Submission - Dreary Day

Post by Ledmitz » 04 Sep 2011, 17:37

you can only have 1 track per map. I asked about this with candor because i wanted to compose before/after music for the battle.
I don't mean different tracks playing at different times on the same map, I mean all at the same time with fading in and out of each split part to create better moods. Is it really that hard to add coding for volume changes? Just asking to be clear.
The audio engine of the Mana client is too basic to do anything like that.
I assume this answers my question. Still probing to be sure.
You can have status effects, though, with start-audio and end-audio.
Really? Any change is great. What exactly do you mean by "status effects"?
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