SFX patch for TMW for testing

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Ledmitz
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 21 Jan 2013, 18:17

Reid wrote:Also, "udu_chimes1.mp3" is licensed under CC BY-NC 3.0, this isn't a free/libre license. :(
I don't understand. It IS a free license. Look at the link posted there. the first 2 lines describe what you can do with the sound. The next 2 show your limitations. Attribute author and no commercial use.

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Jenalya » 21 Jan 2013, 18:24

Ledmitz wrote: and again, no need to dual license (and the 2 are incompatible anyway) unless it is a TMW policy to do GPL 2.0 only. I still haven't been clarified on if this is true or if TMW believe it is a licensing issue.
As I told you in irc, the current tmw policy is to use GPL only.
There are thoughts to change this policy and allow certain other licenses, but there wasn't much activity on that discussion recently, so for now the rule of GPL only holds.
I plan to carefully read and understand the GPL and other licenses' texts that we'd allow and get an idea of what changes we need to do in the developing workflow, before I'm going to give an opinion if we should change the policy. But since I have to prepare for exams at the moment, I set my priorities regarding tmw-related stuff to the most urgent topics.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 21 Jan 2013, 19:04

Jenalya wrote:As I told you in irc, the current tmw policy is to use GPL only.
Sorry Jenalya. I couldn't remember or never saw that. It was late on the weekend. :wink:
I appreciate the clarification. I will bug off about it for a while and keep making sounds. Even if TMW does not change policy, I could always set up an alternate update host, but I wouldn't be up to date with the main server unless I knew the changes before they are released. Is it possible for me to get that info somehow already?
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Jenalya » 21 Jan 2013, 19:30

Ledmitz wrote: I will bug off about it for a while and keep making sounds. Even if TMW does not change policy, I could always set up an alternate update host, but I wouldn't be up to date with the main server unless I knew the changes before they are released. Is it possible for me to get that info somehow already?
Of course! The development is public (besides of events sometimes). You can find the client-data repository here: https://github.com/themanaworld/tmwa-client-data
And when you click on the button which says 'commits', you can view what exactly was changed.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Crush » 21 Jan 2013, 19:40

Ledmitz wrote:
Reid wrote:CC BY-NC 3.0, this isn't a free/libre license. :(
I don't understand. It IS a free license.
There is a difference between free as in free beer ("gratis") and free as in freedom ("libre"). When we are talking about free licenses, we are usually referring to the latter.

Free means freedom to use a work in any way and for any purpose you want. This includes commercial purposes. When you are not allowed to use something to make money, it is not free as in freedom.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 21 Jan 2013, 22:25

Crush wrote:There is a difference between free as in free beer ("gratis") and free as in freedom ("libre").
I am well aware. I use the term properly, but as to which one is more free, depends on your viewpoint. Freedom to license the file as free to use, but never be able to charge for it (keeping it free in both senses from the author's viewpoint) vs. freedom to use the file as you wish (being able to charge), hence different license options are available (at least with CC). The term free, as in libre, can then be debated... but I ain't gonna be in on that debate. I would ask the thread to be closed, but I sure hope someone gets back to me on this one at some point, even if it is a few months later.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Nard » 26 Jan 2013, 06:56

Ledmitz wrote:Hello everyone. I have been working on sound effects on and off for TMW over the past few months. Not too long ago I learned how to patch the manaplus client using the '.local' directory. [...]
It may be the time to adopt a sound and music file name standard to make both testing and/or choosing music/sfx easier. Also music credits for "official music" can be transferred and made more readable to some database or and readable from help for example.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 26 Jan 2013, 18:16

Nard wrote:It may be the time to adopt a sound and music file name standard
Actually, there already is a standard that I neglected to use. I just changed all the filename last night to the proper format, however, my kbps is at 160, not 128 .... I love Audacity, but this part bugs me; You can set quality in ogg files as a rating of 1-10 rather than showing you the kbps you will get. I have mine set at 5 and they've been coming out at 160. I also do not keep the finished product in .wav format, as there is no need. Original samples are often compressed themselves.

Here tis the sound format information link on the wiki:

http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/SFX see bottom of page
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Nard » 26 Jan 2013, 20:12

About the standard: sfx names are a consistent system. Music file names are not map related thus it is necessary to look in the code to know which one is related to which map or area.
Tileset filenames seem to fit better to this need. There is no obvious choice as my previous post could have let it suppose.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by o11c » 27 Jan 2013, 02:56

A sensible solution to allow easy testing would be:

In the client, if music/###-#.ogg exists, use it; otherwise use the music field.

By policy, no ###-#.ogg will be committed to the music repository.

This is the kind of thing that could be harmlessly added to a newer version of ManaPlus that developers can be expected to use, without breaking anything for ordinary users who don't upgrade.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 04 Mar 2013, 13:32

Jenalya wrote:The development is public (besides of events sometimes). You can find the client-data repository here: https://github.com/themanaworld/tmwa-client-data
And when you click on the button which says 'commits', you can view what exactly was changed.
I have been browsing here, but It looks like once a git is commited, that it is already an update that you will get during the next logon? Right now, I get the exact info I need by browsing straight to the changed file on the updates site, but it is after the fact. Will the git site help me to know changes before they occur too?
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Jenalya » 04 Mar 2013, 15:42

Ledmitz wrote:I have been browsing here, but It looks like once a git is commited, that it is already an update that you will get during the next logon? Right now, I get the exact info I need by browsing straight to the changed file on the updates site, but it is after the fact. Will the git site help me to know changes before they occur too?
The updates you get when logging in need to be supplied by the updates server, which is updated when we do releases (synchronous to the update on the server-data side). Commits to the git repo are happening all the time. That means the git repo is more up-to-date than the data you get when logging in.
Though sometimes things are developed in forks, and then get merged into the mainline repo shortly before release. (E.g. the Beanie Copter Cap is currently only on my fork, not in the main repo yet.)
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 04 Mar 2013, 18:36

@Jenalya: OK, TY .. I just need to keep an eye on the git. I'll check if there is a notifier, and if so, I'll use it.
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Ledmitz » 05 Mar 2013, 13:22

I guess this is the place, if any, to post this... I have my update server running and is currently up to date. I will be changing some of the sounds soon, but here is the web address and gaining new sounds is a very simple procedure:

http://warworld.noads.biz
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Re: SFX patch for TMW for testing

Post by Nard » 06 Mar 2013, 06:44

Nice Job Ledmitz! :D
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
“There are two motives for reading a book; one, that you enjoy it; the other, that you can boast about it.” Bertrand Russell, Conquest of Happiness.
"If you optimize everything, you will always be unhappy." Donald Knuth.
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