balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablity

Got something on your mind about the project? This is the correct place for that.


Forum rules

This forum is for feature requests, content changes additions, anything not a Bug in the software.
Please report all bugs on the Support Forums

alexmannx13
Newly Registered User
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 05:35

balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablity

Post by alexmannx13 »

Hello,
I was having fun playing the game initially, but now it's becoming very... very mechanical and chore-like - trying to level up so that my dagger (15) can inflict sufficient damage to monsters without me losing a significant portion of my life points.

In the wiki, there are many nice weapons that are unreleased. I would like to request re-balancing the weapon stats so that the next best weapon from the dagger (15) would not be the short sword (100). How about having weapons that have 30, 45, 60, 75, and 90 damage. These intervals make more sense, as supposed to one drastic interval. Also, upgrading the short sword to the setzer, only 10 points difference for the work involved does not make it feel like a much better weapon.

I have similar feedback about armours. Some of the armours, like gloves, shirts, shoes, and such, go from 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Why not have them go 5, 10, 15, 20, 25? Or even higher like 30, 35, 40, 45?

The prices could be nicer as well. Things really should be more affordable.

For someone who spends time levelling to level 25, there really is no sense of accomplishment when all you can afford at that point is a leather shield, and the fire goblins in the sandstorm desert south of tulimshar still cause 10-15 damage when they attack. It makes sense if for the first 5-10 levels you are playing with maggots and scorpions, but to keep playing with them until level 20-25 or so because all you have is a dagger (15) and can't inflict some serious damage on the monsters like the ones in the miner's cave in the desert. It's kinda like saying a 12-dan karate master cannot squash a scorpion unharmed.

I do feel that this game have fun things to offer, but it is so very tedious to get to something interesting, then another few bouts of tediousness where you are stuck in one place for a while (oh look, it's this place again...), and then something interesting... and the cycle repeats. I mean, do I really have to level up to such an extent with equipment that feels and works like toys before I can go to more interesting areas without having to consume all my life potions and such, or face a quick death. I mean it can take many hours just to go up a level, but there really is not much to show for that experience gained.

I truly think that some degree of rebalancing player stats, weapons and armours, to reflect better attribute outcomes, would enhance the playability and longevity of the game.

Ok, perhaps this may lead to the game developers taking offense to their work, but I do hope it comes off as as constructive criticism, as I do want to enjoy more of the game, it's quests and such - just not as many maggots and scorpions.

Regards,
Alex
alexmannx13
Newly Registered User
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 05:35

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by alexmannx13 »

I forgot to include this: What about the possibility of having enchanted weapons or armours? Or, mini-quests that present you with such items? Or, enchanting them yourself via some "magical alchemy"?
User avatar
yourmistakes
Knight
Knight
Posts: 695
Joined: 05 Dec 2009, 06:08
Location: North Korea
Contact:

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by yourmistakes »

the scythe does +75 damage
also there is supposedly a rebalance in progress
User avatar
radiant
Novice
Novice
Posts: 129
Joined: 27 Sep 2007, 22:21

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by radiant »

alexmannx13 wrote:I have similar feedback about armours. Some of the armours, like gloves, shirts, shoes, and such, go from 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Why not have them go 5, 10, 15, 20, 25? Or even higher like 30, 35, 40, 45?
This is because those numbers are used as percentages which are cumulative across all slots. If they go that much higher, you reach a game state where all adjustable attacks are automatically adjusted down by more than 100%, clearly an absurd value.

The highest values currently in the game are sufficient to reduce the most powerful, 500-damage attacks down to about 40, which is just far enough that a character fully dedicated to such can withstand it in the long run. Introducing almost anything higher is bordering on making monster stats completely irrelevant.
alexmannx13
Newly Registered User
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 05:35

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by alexmannx13 »

I suppose they could be percentages. If you add the max values of each available armour category, you get to somewhere in the mid 80's

I am quite sure they are used as: your base defense (including your attribute points) + total defense points from armour. When you are attacked, the damage dealt is the difference between the attack and your defense total.
User avatar
o11c
Grand Knight
Grand Knight
Posts: 2262
Joined: 20 Feb 2011, 21:09
Location: ^ ^

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by o11c »

Armor defense decreases the attack's value by a percentage (except for critical hits), and then VIT decreases it linearly.

In order to balance this game, armor needs to be weakened, not strengthened.

Yeah, we need a better range.

That said: I've been playing as a weaponless nudist and I haven't had any trouble levelling to 35 or so. Only a few monsters give me difficulty (such as slimes). You statement about having to level on maggots and scorpions seems to be inaccurate for a character with the correct stats; I was definitely killing fire goblins with no difficulty by 25.
Former programmer for the TMWA server.
alexmannx13
Newly Registered User
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 05:35

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by alexmannx13 »

yourmistakes: yes the scythe does make the game better and also introduces you to some quests. thank you for pointing that out - i overlooked that.

o11c: you are correct, i also was able to kill fire goblins, but not continuously - i mean at that level i could also kill ice goblins, but if 3 came at once, i'd be a gonner or low on life points.
User avatar
o11c
Grand Knight
Grand Knight
Posts: 2262
Joined: 20 Feb 2011, 21:09
Location: ^ ^

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by o11c »

The way to manage VIT points is this: see how much damage they do in one hit, and then add that many VIT points.

Note that I excluded one other number from the calculations: Once you are getting attacked by 3 monsters, your defense becomes less effective.
Former programmer for the TMWA server.
User avatar
Piateluca
Novice
Novice
Posts: 190
Joined: 19 May 2011, 01:50

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by Piateluca »

For someone who spends time levelling to level 25, there really is no sense of accomplishment when all you can afford at that point is a leather shield, and the fire goblins in the sandstorm desert south of tulimshar still cause 10-15 damage when they attack. It makes sense if for the first 5-10 levels you are playing with maggots and scorpions, but to keep playing with them until level 20-25 or so because all you have is a dagger (15) and can't inflict some serious damage on the monsters like the ones in the miner's cave in the desert. It's kinda like saying a 12-dan karate master cannot squash a scorpion unharmed.
I started this game with 5 more people, the 5 left because of that reason.
MarkHill256
Newly Registered User
Posts: 1
Joined: 12 Dec 2011, 10:11

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by MarkHill256 »

still learning on this things. specially on weapons stuff



Mark
My billy club weapons is what makes me GREAT!
Last edited by MarkHill256 on 30 Dec 2011, 10:45, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Derpella
Novice
Novice
Posts: 198
Joined: 14 Jun 2011, 08:08
Location: Poland

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by Derpella »

I think the problem is, the advanced player can go through first 30-40 levels in few hours.
And devs are advanced players and can't really think like a noobs. It's the knowledge you forget after your first month :) So when I watched this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWW1ScbLVAc (one of 3 parts) was like
wat are you doing
wat are you doing
wat wat wat
But then I realized it's a noob, and everything is logical.
That's why he reads Candide's dialogue like Holy Bible, but don't think about clicking Bernard. That's why Gladys's ramblings are just random ramblings to him. And even if that were before new newbie quest, (first time I did it it frustrated me as hell!), the beginning is still unclear.
Maybe we should mark the NPC who can give you important quests with !, like in many other games?
It would be also nice if tutorial taught how to whisper. (Besides, making "all whispers in tabs" a default option).

To the author- protip: use bow. Also you are able to get scythe (+75) around 15-20 level.
I'm Image too much.
User avatar
Jenalya
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 717
Joined: 22 Sep 2010, 19:28

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by Jenalya »

Derpella wrote: Maybe we should mark the NPC who can give you important quests with !, like in many other games?
That's a good idea though not possible at the moment. Since this information is depending on the players progress, the client needs information about that - something like a quest log. Bertram and I started to discuss how it'd be possible to have a quest log some weeks ago, but delayed that project because of lots of other things to do (Christmas event and real life stuff). I think we'll come back to that soon, but in any case it's a long term project.
Derpella wrote: It would be also nice if tutorial taught how to whisper. (Besides, making "all whispers in tabs" a default option).
Sorfina actually offers some explanations about that, but not in the first dialogue, you have to ask her about it. In the first version of the tutorial it was mentioned the same time when explaining how to talk to NPCs. But the feedback I got was "Too much information at once." - Most players don't memorize that information when given at that point, because they don't need it immediatly and there are a lot of other new things to do and to learn.

Regarding making "all whispers in tabs" the default option I suggest to ask in #mana on freenode again if that was done.
User avatar
Derpella
Novice
Novice
Posts: 198
Joined: 14 Jun 2011, 08:08
Location: Poland

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by Derpella »

I think the entrance quest should be like a tutorial, for example player would whisper a newb helper bot, and this bot would navigate player step by step:
-Some guy called Bernard or Bertram or how was he called seeks someone to sell him some food... Maybe you should talk to him?
-I seen a crying boy in the market. Se seems to need to do some chores, but he is afraid.
.
etc.
And the data about player's current status sure are somewhere ;)
Besides, that bot could have a topic library, so the player would be able to get info everywhere, in every moment. Maybe connected to Wiki, maybe not :) The topics would be triggered by player's request, for example:
weapon
(player has level 20 and dagger)It seems you have a pretty good melee weapon. If your Dexterity is high, you can use ranged weapon. But if you feel lucky, you can visit another continent, Hurnscald, and try to talk to Farmer Hinnak... I heard he has something better!
Hurnscald
Hurnscald is a green continent of Mana World. To get there...
etc.

It would be a lot of work, but I am sure it would reduce the amount of newb quitters by at least 80% :)
I'm Image too much.
User avatar
Crush
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 8046
Joined: 25 Aug 2005, 16:08
Location: Germany

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by Crush »

Derpella wrote:player would whisper a newb helper bot, and this bot would navigate player step by step
You mean via a text parser interface? Way to make a good first impression of usability. No, thanks. Unless you first want to create a tutorial about how to do the tutorial.

Of course I agree that the player must be guided by NPCs during the first part, but this should be done with the normal point&click NPC interface.
  • former Manasource Programmer
  • former TMW Pixel artist
  • NOT a game master

Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


You might have heard a certain rumor about me. This rumor is completely false. You might also have heard the other rumor about me. This rumor is 100% accurate.
User avatar
Derpella
Novice
Novice
Posts: 198
Joined: 14 Jun 2011, 08:08
Location: Poland

Re: balancing levels, weapon and armour stats and availablit

Post by Derpella »

It's like saying that Yahoo is better than Google.
I'm Image too much.
Post Reply