Splash damage changes

[o11c]

A recent change I made to the test server is to implement splash damage for all mobs.

Whenever a mob attempts an attack on a player, an attack is also attempted on all other players on the same tile, or (optionally) on adjacent tiles.

The intent of this patch was to see if technical measures are feasible against those who are almost-botting, but still technically within the rules.

Worth doing? Harmful? No visible effect?

NOTE: this patch will have no effect if you're solo, or attacking from range.

[Nard]

Will a mob be able to attack several players at the same time? At the moment, if I attack a mob within a stack I get damage. will I get more with this change? I didn't actually noticed a great difference on test server, I would need to record the damage taken in various situation to conclude in a constructive way.
Will a mob attack those who don't attack the mob? If it is the case, it will become even more dangerous than it is to heal warriors as an archer or "tanked" mage :/

Edit: typo

[o11c]

the mob is dumb; whenever it tries to attack a player, it simply rolls to hit and for damage against every player in the stack.

[Nard]

Now that mod has been pushed on main server we can have a real dimension feedback.

Warriors: This mod does not change a lot except when fighting mobs that previously had only had the attacker as a single target: They Now attack players on tiles adjacent to attacker even if they are passive. If they are 1 tile away from the attacker they are safe.

The main difference is then that character who go through a "stack", can and will now take damage.

consequences: Archer-healers, Tanked mages, and low level mages using lum, or with little inma range, risk now death when they heal warriors while they are fighting.

What I think:
The effect on medium-high level stacks is insignificant.
isolated medium level warriors will take much more hits if the do not take care to keep 1 tile interval with attacker, loose some "stack protection, making them harder to level.
Archer-healers are going to disappear.
Tanked mages, will have more difficulties to heal.
"luming" efficiently may become tricky, when inside a fight.
This mod increases the difference between low and high level players.
It will be possible to kill an afk char, or even a playing one (archer, mage) by moving next to it.

Nard

[Frost]

Nard, thank you for posting that this had been brought into the main server.

I made a change (and restart) about 11 hours ago to fix a chat-spam problem. After more carefully reviewing the details of those changes, it appears that this "splash damage" change was inadvertently included.

It will be easy to revert to the previous code version on the main server, if we choose.
My question is whether players want to try using the splash damage change, or whether there are enough concerns that it should be removed until further work is done.

I'll also post that question more publicly.

[Big Crunch]

its nonsensical for a zombie to bite 17 people at once
i could understand it for those monsters with a breath attack, ie skulls, but for a monster that uses a physical attack its just silly and obviously a bad patch for a situation
the easiest fix would be to give the skulls splash damage and then block off the freezer area in the gy
that way there is no where to really stash the skulls and jacko
bringing the skulls into play
and thereby their splash damage

this would make stacking in the skull room and in the gy, the places it is most evident and prevelant, far less effective. As it is with all monsters using splash damage its next to impossible for an archer or mage to get close to heal another player. This effectively discourages warriors, archers who wish to heal, and support mages.

[Frost]

As part of a change to the server to stop a possible chat-spam problem, I unintentionally also included a change which gives monsters "splash damage" to all characters in 1-tile radius. This is being tried on the testing server, but there was not a final decision to add it to the game.

The goal of splash damage is to make it less safe to fight in stacks and more interesting to use groups of mixed styles. In my mind, this means the goal is "make combat more interesting."

Instead of automatically saying "this was a mistake" and removing it, I am asking what players think.

How does splash damage affect the game? Is it better than the old way, or worse? How can it be improved?
Should we keep splash damage in the game or remove it until more work has been done?

Edit: Dev discussion is at http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =4&t=16034

[ChaosCrossAG]

Well I honestly think it just makes it tougher to be a tank. Tanks are a means to surviving, and with this there is no point in being a tank anymore because because it takes away what made it a good choice. I mean, didn`t the Raging skill do enough of lowering the tanks defense?

[KeeKee]

This effectively eliminates all warriors from the game, in my mind.

It's already almost impossible for a warrior to survive and can not earn xp with archers and mages taking over all areas of the game. And, there is very little, if any, consideration of other players mobs. If an archer or mage comes into a fighting scene, they take it all away from those who started fighting in that area. It used to be that if someone came into a fight scene, they were considerate and asked if they could join, but now, they are stronger and do not care, they just shoot or zap all mobs, then run off to take all and everything in their path.

Sadly, warriors are becoming a thing of the past in this game. This game USED to be fun for all, not anymore. The more that's changed, the WORSE it gets.

Yes, I am a very sad, upset, and frustrated warrior.

This is just my opinion, such as it is.

[ChaosCrossAG]

My thoughts exactly! Tanks are slowly being killed off and as long as this stays in place Tanks are effectively done for. If anything tanks need to be stronger, much stronger! And if you`re like me, and love tanking go to the Land of Fire server, where life is kind to tanks!

[o11c]

Funny how in this thread people say "it's impossible to be a warrior now" and in the other "it's impossible to be an archer/mage now"

Just saying. We do appreciate your feedback.

[ChaosCrossAG]

I do agree with what Crunch said in the other thread that enemies like Skulls can have it because if you think about it that would make sense since they have the breath attacks.

[KeeKee]

Funny how in this thread people say "it's impossible to be a warrior now" and in the other "it's impossible to be an archer/mage now"

Just saying. We do appreciate your feedback.

Excuse me. Nobody said that. VERrrrrY misleading to the conversation.

Just saying, too.

[Frost]

I'd like to clarify something.
I posted because I believe it's important what players think, not just what devs and GMs and admins think. We already have this change, it won't affect long-term playability (as an exploit bug would) if it's around for just a day or two, and it's simple to remove.

Please try the change. It has effects on many aspects of combat.
Tell us what you think should happen. If it's unpopular, then it will be removed.
Your opinions matter.

[Big Crunch]

to clarify my statement in the other thread:

It is more difficult for archers in that they cannot heal a warrior, considering they have a short range on their healing ability.

It is more difficult for mages in that they cannot stay in the action to heal nearly as well considering if a warrior and monster are attacking one another it is likely that they will catch some of the damage.

It is more difficult for warriors in that the healing classes will be far less likely to attempt to heal them for fear of catching damage from the attack.

One thing i would like to ask is this: If the monster attacks a warrior, who has a very low evade % and an archer is in the splash zone, is the archer's evade % considered in whether they receive splash damage or is it entirely dependent on the warrior? Meaning if the warrior gets hit, will the archer automatically take damage as well?