Make Angela & Cindy quest repeatable weekly

[bell chick]

my int was 99 with max astral

[Chicka-Maria]

my int was 99 with max astral

higher level?

[mistergrey]

If you did the quest once, you have either a wiz hat, or a staff. If you got the staff, it's easy enough to find someone trading a wiz hat... if you got a hat, you should have over 99 int. This seemed to be about getting the staff, which would barely help your m attack at all. Your int being at 99 is exactly why other mages do more damage than you - Int raises m attack a lot more every 5 points put into it.

[bell chick]

my int was 99 and i had max astral so i wasnt going in with tiny stats yet still only did 560-790

[Nard]

then explain why some mages do 800-100 damage against skulls and i only do 500-780.

because:

1. Level: adds 1 to magic attack starting at level 14
2. Intelligence: +1 to magic attack for each int level, +2*quotient(int/5) if int is a multiple of 5 ( i.e. int=25 gives 25+2*(1+2+3+4+5) -5=50 M.attack )
3. Magic skill level: "Magic flows naturally from you, readily and with ease. Your understanding of what you can currently control at present is flawless, far beyond your requirements to cast magic at this level. [Surely the Mana Seed will more than readily offer more magic for such a proficient user.]"
4. Astral Soul skill level 9
5. Wizard Hat Intelligence +3 - M. Attack +5
6. Sapphire ring: int +1
7. Sorcerer Robe: M. Attack +20
8. Grimoire M. Attack +5 (or four leafs clover)

You can see that items have little influence compared to INT, level, Magic level, Astral soul skill level. Wiz hat is important because it makes you cross level 100 and gives you more shots and 6 iron powders per ore but it brings only 6 magic attack points when you are level 99 with 99 intelligence, Intelligence bonus is different from base intelligence on that point. Staff is mostly aesthetics for the same reason.. More useful is the Grimoire for the extra MP it gives. it is useful when you attack and heal in GY or Candor.

Better use a rock knife to get +3 vit.

You may also notice that the magic attack bonus does not always fit the announced number, the effective bonus varies depending on your status, I don't know exactly how (but I'd like to).

[Frost]

Staff gives +5 m.attack. That's about nothing.

then explain why some mages do 800-100 damage against skulls and i only do 500-780.

The difference between 99 int and 100 is very high

[Here is a full explanation of all the factors.]

my int was 99 and i had max astral so i wasnt going in with tiny stats yet still only did 560-790

Bell Chick, you don't have to accept anyone's explanation. Test the situation yourself. Create a character on the testing server, create the same items you have in the game and the same stats, then test with other items and other stats. You can see yourself how much difference 99 vs. 100 Intelligence gives, and how much difference the staff would make.

[Freeyorp101]

1. Magic skill level: "Magic flows naturally from you, readily and with ease. Your understanding of what you can currently control at present is flawless, far beyond your requirements to cast magic at this level. [Surely the Mana Seed will more than readily offer more magic for such a proficient user.]"

Magic experience is not a factor in spellpower nor in lightning damage computation. While experience is computed in adjust_spellpower, the term is never used.

The only skill factor used is the general magic level and the level of the school of magic being used, both of which will invariably be 2 in order to cast lightning.


---Freeyorp

[Nard]

Magic experience is not a factor in spellpower nor in lightning damage computation. While experience is computed in adjust_spellpower, the term is never used.

The only skill factor used is the general magic level and the level of the school of magic being used, both of which will invariably be 2 in order to cast lightning.

Do you mean that Magic experience has no influence in damage, in range nor in number of shots, of number of items by transmutation, of monster summoned?
It was on my plans to verify it but I didn't already. At least, Magic experience has influence on the possibility to cast some spells: parum and ingrav.

1. Level: adds 1 to magic attack starting at level 14
2. Intelligence: +1 to magic attack for each int level, +2*quotient(int/5) if int is a multiple of 5 ( i.e. int=25 gives 25+2*(1+2+3+4+5) -5=50 M.attack )

This applies before focused astral soul is applied (i.e. without being focused on it). (I'd like to know how this skill works or where I can find the information)
The "magic" wiki page has been and will be updated with accurate information.

[tsukinokage]

Do you mean that Magic experience has no influence in damage, in range nor in number of shots, of number of items by transmutation, of monster summoned?

According to my understanding by reading the magic related code: it's true that magic experience has no influence in damage, in range nor in number of shots, of number of items by transmutation, of monster summoned.

It was on my plans to verify it but I didn't already. At least, Magic experience has influence on the possibility to cast some spells: parum and ingrav.

Magic experience influence all transmutation magic, so yes, it influence the possibility to cast spells like #parum and #gole and such, every transmutation magic spell has a difficulty, and there's a formula:

Code: Select all

score = experience + random(min(spellpower, (experience / 3) + 1));

, you can see, experience influence the result of score, and only when score >= difficulty, you'll successfully transmute the material into the desired item, usally the number is only depend on spell power, e.g. This is the code for #gole,

Code: Select all

create_item("SulphurPowder", 1 + spellpower / 100 + (random(max(1, 800 - spellpower)) / 180), "PileOfAsh", 50);

you can see the number of sulphur powder it produces is 1 + spellpower/100 + (random(max(1, 800-spellpower))/180), and the difficulty is 50, and the third argument "PileOfAsh" means if your (difficulty * 2) / 3 <= score < difficulty, it will produce one PileOfAsh, the wiki said something about not produce iten if your #zukminbirf spell failed, actually that's not true, every transmutation spell will have 1 out of 5(or 6?) chance (IF random(5) = 0) to produce an iten if difficulty / 3 <= score < (difficulty * 2) / 3, it's a really rare rate, so usually nobody noticed, but it indeed can transmute items into an iten. Magic experience don't have any effect on spells like #ingrav and so on at least from my understanding, so no it don't influence #ingrav it only influence transmutation magic spell.

This applies before focused astral soul is applied (i.e. without being focused on it). (I'd like to know how this skill works or where I can find the information)

You can read the server code in src/map/pc.cpp about how astral soul skill influence magic attack, just search TMW_ASTRAL_SOUL in this file.

[bell chick]

If you did the quest once, you have either a wiz hat, or a staff. If you got the staff, it's easy enough to find someone trading a wiz hat... if you got a hat, you should have over 99 int. This seemed to be about getting the staff, which would barely help your m attack at all. Your int being at 99 is exactly why other mages do more damage than you - Int raises m attack a lot more every 5 points put into it.

yeah you were right i did the quest a couple days and the hat did make the damage reasonable. still say another weapom that dies similar to the staff is reasonable

[blackrazor]

Hi bell

I originally had a similar issue; I did not want to have any alts or mules. I find that most MOGs indirectly require them for maximum success, and yet at the same time they are cumbersome, unethical (viewed by some, not all, so not a blanket statement), and at least for me they ruin the immersion of the game itself. So, in many games I try, I often war internally between getting alts for the extra perks and success and avoiding them, because I know that once I have them, my sense of immersion will go down, and eventually I will be less interested.

This is a problem that some players have, and some don't. Others love alts, as it gives the game a sense of repeatability that they enjoy, or the intrigue and drama of creating whole new personas that are completely distinct (and secret).

I think the same applies for other game mechanics (besides alts) that run tangential (but relevant) to the original reasons I made this suggestion.

Some players want casual gameplay. They want to be able to complete the games objectives (maximum level and all items) with some reasonable but casual amount of effort, and spend the remaining time either helping out their friends achieve similar objectives, or socializing, or griefing (a form of negative socialization), or engaging in end-game activities like PvP championships, castlewars (guild vs. guild), capture the flag, etc. ... yes I know much of this is not implemented, I'm just saying what some players may want, not that we necessarily have it .. and it's not a complaint either, just an observation.

Anyhow, other players want various levels of hardcore gameplay. The ultimate is, of course, permadeath. Lower down is substantial loss of xp, skills, items upon death. None of that is implemented here (nor am I recommending it, I'm just looking at the gamut of player interests). Still lower is intense effort to obtain goals. Included in this might be crafting your first set of warlord from ingots you get on your own. Or searching the small player market for tantalizing rares (and being there for all events over the years) plus marketing in order to earn the gold for these treasures, or leveling up to 99, or getting a tight group of level 90+ together for Candor or Illyia for the rewards to be had there.

I think many disagreements occur because fundamentally, different players want different things from the game, and sometimes these things are mutually exclusive. So one group of players advocating for what they want out of the game might be seen by another group as infringing, nerfing, or limiting what another group expects to get out of the game.

I think some of the people here, are actively enjoying the game as developers, with less focus on play. And even in the developer camp, there are subgroups, some optimizing the imperfect tech we have now, and others engaging in a different joy of exploring whole new ways of implementing future tech.

I think lots of things are fun to different people. Some of these different things can co-exist naturally, some only co-exist with real effort and mediation, and some are actually mutual exclusive. I think I realized this when I made some of these recommendations, and it's why I held off for a while before making them. I didn't want to antagonize groups with different goals, as I agitated for my own. I guess like with most things in life, it's a balancing act, between getting goals you want, and still having a community to share them with at the end of the day

These are my New-Year's musings, as they relate to this specific recommendation, and many other recommendations on these forums, as well.

I wish everyone in Mana, and your families, friends, loved ones, a very happy and healthy New Year.
Cheers !

[Kestrel]

At least with other quests you can grind away knowing that you'll eventually get the reward for it.
Unlike this quest that's a one time deal where you have no control over whether or not you actually get the reward you were hoping for.

I mean surely this has to be bad game design, right? If you're going to go down that route then why not just randomize all the quest rewards.
This guy gets cat ears, you don't. That's too bad, go make a new character and try again or spend x amount of hours farming red slimes for it.

Seriously, how can such a blatantly unfair game mechanic get added? What were you people thinking?!

The staff is rarer than the wizard hats, and that seems to be intended - having the quest be repeatable entirely ruins the point of such a prize, since everyone would have one within a short time. This would also leave wizard hats and staffs with almost no value, when it came to trading.

As worthless as setzer, sorcerer robe and all the other stuff. Yeah.

[Frost]

that's a one time deal where you have no control over whether or not you actually get the reward you were hoping for.

Either do it again with another character, or trade someone. None of this is "rare" in the game.

I mean surely this has to be bad game design, right?

Not necessarily. You can trade for what you really wanted. The staff isn't very powerful anyway.

Seriously, how can such a blatantly unfair game mechanic get added? What were you people thinking?!

The people who make these quests also play the game. It's not an "us versus them" situation. Obviously, the creators thought it was fun. Playtesters liked it too. You're allowed to disagree. In fact, you're allowed to make something better.

It sounds like you have ideas and experience in designing games. Would you like to help us by writing new quests or something else that would expand the game? We need storytellers, graphic artists, mapmakers, musicians, programmers....