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#129563 by Nard
Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:31 pm
cody wrote:Just to state the obvious: Those repositories brought almost all of us here.

That's true for many of us. I am sure that 4144 is aware of it and has an eye,and an ear (at least) on the problem :)
By switching to the evol client, new players will go to evol. Which is actually the better choice for them, since evol's website isn't dead and it has a much nicer starting place
If the evol server will be set to a better place than it is now, TMW, TMW-test are in the Start-up screen. Thus even in the actual situation it is likely that there is no significant change.
Why does there have to be only one official client? Why not none?

Having an official client means that the client features are used as reference, thus that any other client may have to include them if it pretends to be compatible with game. It means too that server developers, content developers and client ones have tight relations to ensure consistency. But it also means that all client's features are guaranteed to be inside the rules. A client which has extra features could be considered as "illegal".

Note to those who have difficulties to read wikis: Just as in mana, type F1 key, or type /help in chat line to bring help menu which makes you able to play quite easily. If you really need some pdf; go to http://manaplus.evolonline.org/documentation, all major OS allow you to print it as pdf file. Also, there is no need to use advanced features if you don't want to. Default configuration makes you play as you would do in mana.
#129566 by Nard
Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:50 pm
Yes, Manaplus support following. But:
Platyna wrote:There is no rule forbidding following other players. There is a rule preventing to annoy players and to use automation to gain advantage over other players which is unfair. If a GM suspects botting, s/he is supposed to execute a standard ...

If I understand it well, this means that auto-follow (and I think automation features such as crazy moves) is not forbidden as long as it is not used to gain more experience and items that you could do alone, and to annoy other players.
#129681 by Bertram
Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:04 pm
Hi everyone,

I thought, even if I'm now just a ghost for many people, that I would open my virtual mouth, for once.

I do myself support the switch to using ManaPlus as an official client, as it is something obvious. That client is faster, has much more refined features, and only lacks a few screw-driving here and there to make it perfect for both normal and hard-core players. The only thing I'll regret is the movement system I've put much blood into ;) but that's just a personal thing.
4144 has been, and for years, putting the equivalent effort of 5 active developers daily on it, so it's no surprise, and that's why he's got all my respect, whatever other people think about it.

That said, I do hope everyone will agree to follow Jenalya's example and start a smooth transition into using ManaPlus, along with some constructive feed-back from the community.

Regards,

o11c wrote:Recent discussions have made it quite clear that the people working on Mana - currently our official client - do not care at all about support for the tmwa server. Instead, they care about their eternally "almost done" ManaServ.


@o11c:
Isn't the "o11c eAthena server port to c++ with new features" "eternally almost done" as well, btw? Stop messing everybody about the mana devs, this is just pitiful and makes people go away, including myself.
#129685 by Nard
Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:15 pm
Hello Bertram and happy new year.

Bertram wrote:I thought, even if I'm now just a ghost for many people, that I would open my virtual mouth, for once.

That's a pity that we don't hear your voice more, even if "virtual" as I always found your advice inreresting, balanced and respectful to those who have different opinion than yours.
I personnally do think that mana client, mana source, TMW, and at last many of TMW forks suffered from the multiple splits that such a small project cannot afford. Mana source has been cut from it's main source of fresh "meat" and feedback: players. This is, in my opinion due to the lack of respect that occured in many occasions here on forum and, I suppose on IRC too. But this is another topic. I just wish, because this project (or family of projects) is able to draw lessons from the past and will not repeat the same errors.
[...]people go away, including myself

Enough wise persons have left. Please stay.
unknown author wrote:You earn respect by how you live, not by what you demand.
You earned it.
#129696 by o11c
Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:24 pm
Bertram wrote:
o11c wrote:Recent discussions have made it quite clear that the people working on Mana - currently our official client - do not care at all about support for the tmwa server. Instead, they care about their eternally "almost done" ManaServ.


@o11c:
Isn't the "o11c eAthena server port to c++ with new features" "eternally almost done" as well, btw? Stop messing everybody about the mana devs, this is just pitiful and makes people go away, including myself.


I'm making progress. Slow, since I'm the only one, but I have fixed a number of bugs and/or limitations.

(The server *is* already running the C++ version btw)
#129697 by _Speiros_
Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:50 am
o11c wrote:
Bertram wrote:
o11c wrote:Recent discussions have made it quite clear that the people working on Mana - currently our official client - do not care at all about support for the tmwa server. Instead, they care about their eternally "almost done" ManaServ.


@o11c:
Isn't the "o11c eAthena server port to c++ with new features" "eternally almost done" as well, btw? Stop messing everybody about the mana devs, this is just pitiful and makes people go away, including myself.


I'm making progress. Slow, since I'm the only one, but I have fixed a number of bugs and/or limitations.

(The server *is* already running the C++ version btw)

Yep, and your hard work is appreciated by all of us manaworld users. I speak for myself and for Aeli, and I'm sure many others agree that all people working on this deserve a big thanks.
#129725 by Bertram
Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:02 am
Hi again,

o11c wrote:I'm making progress. Slow, since I'm the only one, but I have fixed a number of bugs and/or limitations.
(The server *is* already running the C++ version btw)

Good to hear. And the mana dev team, roughly speaking, has participated to a challenge the past summer using manaserv and a modified client.
It seems to me both projects are in use finally. One point in each team. Can we stop this silly war and start at least neutral again for the best and the community?

Nard wrote:Hello Bertram and happy new year.

Hi :) and a Happy New Year to you and your closings. :)

Nard wrote:That's a pity that we don't hear your voice more, even if "virtual" as I always found your advice inreresting, balanced and respectful to those who have different opinion than yours.
I personnally do think that mana client, mana source, TMW, and at last many of TMW forks suffered from the multiple splits that such a small project cannot afford. Mana source has been cut from it's main source of fresh "meat" and feedback: players. This is, in my opinion due to the lack of respect that occured in many occasions here on forum and, I suppose on IRC too. But this is another topic. I just wish, because this project (or family of projects) is able to draw lessons from the past and will not repeat the same errors.

Thanks for your support, Nard. I do appreciate it. You're right. Let's not repeat the elitist mistake of refusing good work when we see some. ManaPlus is defacto the client to use, with some little fixes. We should all work together using this for the players.
I'm even sure o11c could retake or even improve certain evolserver features to the tA-server, and even better, look at making a transition to a common server with new features, whatever it is.

Best regards,
#129726 by Ablu
Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:08 am
Bertram wrote:I'm even sure o11c could retake or even improve certain evolserver features to the tA-server, and even better, look at making a transition to a common server with new features, whatever it is.


The evol server code is currently not published (the public git is outdated a lot). So I am not sure how working together works nicely there. But of course Bertram is right about working together.

Regards
Ablu
#129738 by Ablu
Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:17 pm
When manaplus becomes official client manaplus should create at least a package for Debian/Ubuntu and Fedora. Then the tmw package inside of those repository can be changed to depend on manaplus instead of mana (which also makes all users using that package autoupdating when updating their system). Otherwise this tmw packages should maybe get removed from the official distribution repositories and moved into the non official repositories of manaplus and users should add those repositories to their system. It would also nice to know for how long the mana client will still be supported (so for how long we need to keep the packages inside of the official repositories tmw compatible)

Regards
Ablu
#129755 by o11c
Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:25 pm
In the short term (which probably means at least 6 months), the problem I have with the evol server is that it's more of the same "little hacks to solve an immediate problem instead of making it more maintainable".

In the long term, rebasing the evol changes onto future TMWA is feasible. This would go faster if 4144 did it instead of waiting for me (it's not a priority for me - although a few things like Who's Online and Quest Log I'll be sure to implement with the same network protocol), but TMWA isn't a stable rebase target yet.

--

With this post I declare this thread concluded ... I'll write a news post sometime this week (if I don't, flood my PM box) ... I could leave this thread open for wider players, or there could be a new thread ... Hm, I'll probably lock this and wait for a player to post a feedback thread (feel free to disagree).

I'll also make a new thread about branding.

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