New Spell Ideas and Revisiting Older Ones

[LordDune]

I've been thinking a bit about current spells in the game and new ones that could/should be added. I also took a look through some old RPG spell books for ideas and condensed the relevant ones into single spells, but first I thought dark magic itself could get looked at, since there re no apparent benefits to using it. Maybe that was intentional, IDK.

In other RPG's, if you actually have to choose a divination or type of magic, you get some bonuses for certain things or in the case of light vs dark magic, reversed spells are also possible. Usually Draker magic and war magic are thought to be dark, but not always, where healing/blessing, etc is light. Obviously war magic is already in use and should be usable by all players. Right now there is no asorm or summoning anything better than maggots for dark magic and as far as I know, that's the only difference, so I make reference to reversed spells below spells below. Dark magic is evil and damaging and should be more about offense than defense.

Dark mages need another summoned creature. I suggest bats, snakes, scorpions... anything thought of as inherently evil.

Reflect (dark) - The asorm for evil doers. It is not a shield, but an attack being sent back to the caster. I propose that this spell offers little to no actual protection per say, but that it has the possiblity to reflect some or all of the damage inflicted. Overall it should be the less guaranteed method of magic protection, but more vengeful in nature. whatever damage is not sent back, if any at all, will still effect the dark mage. An ingrav of 1000, might do 700hp to victim and 300hp to caster or totally vice versa.

Miteyo - This is detect magic, but currently only detects certain npc's. I'd love to have it show players with spells cast on them, as well. If you are betsanc'd, then a detect magic should see that clearly, even if you can't see that it is a betsanc. Detecting magic on a player could be very useful in certain situations.

Itenplz - Everyone loves this spell. It's a perfect example of how useful something so trivial can be. I heard it was made as a joke. One thing I'd like to see change, if possible is the ability to cancel the effects for your own spawns so that you don't need to run offscreen to have them attack mobs again. Maybe it could work more like a toggle on the friendlies, but this might be hard to implement.

Parum - Needs no explaination really. Just needs more figurines. Of course having a purpose for these things might be good, like needing them for a quest or something. I guess if you are interesting in starting to make sprites, this might be a good place to start. It requires only one picture, I assume.

Chiza - should automatically give the caster a plus on dex so they can actually hit mobs with it. The component is also not stackable. Maybe a stackable item could make this spell useful.

Upmarmu - ditto. Needs a dex bonus.

Joyplim - I know this spell is just for fun atm, but since it can be mischeivious, why not other plims? I thought it might be neat to simply change it so a joyplim would be a 3plim, devil face: 5plim, sick face: 1plim. The first number simply represent the corresponding alt shortcut. Would this be hard to do? Also, it would be quite funny to make NPC's and mobs smile too. It could even be used in a quest to help someone feeling down?

Skrimp - No use in the game, that I know of. It would be great if we could make potions or do other random things with it. I thought turning water into beer might be nice for a mage. or merging Iron and Conentration potions into one. I'm sure there's a use, but I haven't found it yet.

Haste - This is already a spell, but has been commented out. I've always wondered why. It should be like a concentration potion and be done with 2 or less pedals and can only be cast on another

IronFist - The iron potion spell. Used like Haste.

DispellMagic - One of the great things about being a mage is that you can undo your own blunders of magic cast by another. Obviously though, some magic in the game, should be permanent. This could undo betsancs, ingrav and other player cast spells if a succesul roll was made. It could also be used to make quests more interesting and puzzling.

Drain(dark) - Rather than dark mages using Inma, they could get a Drain spell. It is more selfish and overall, less useful for exp, but could help one heal themselves from stealing life energy from others. I suggest that the amount gained is a fraction of the amount drained. Overuse could lead to negative consequences for the caster, as well.

Cure(light)/Poison(dark) - Light magic would gain the ability the cure poisoned players, while Dark magic would cause living mobs only to be possibly poisoned, so long as they are not resistant based on their stats.

Aid(light)/Hinder(Dark) - Adds or takes away from anothers stats. Adding accuracy or taking it away. This could also affect magic attack and defense. Cast on target only.

TurnUndead/Fear - This is a "Behold my Power" type spell. Think of it as a priest holding up a symbol to ward off the undead creatures or evoke fear in the living. This would cause normally aggressive mobs to disregard you, or Assisting mobs to not assist. It could repel mobs at higher levels away from the caster. The higher you are in magic attack, the more targets you can affect and the effects can increase with magic attack as well. In other RPG's Turning an undead or causing fear from a high level caster can inanimate the undead completely, or kill the living(Dark mages can usually control undead, but I'll cover that in another spell. I suggest damage instead. This should not require you to use a component unless it is something you carry in your inventory. The taxing should be on the MP and if any item is required, it could be a magical or holy symbol, like a cross, pentagram, or something like these, but original to TMW.

MakeScroll - It doesn't have to be a scroll, but a usable item that a mage can prepare and give to another player. After it's use, it would disintegrate or burn up. Any class could use a scroll, but the magic in it should have less power than that of the caster. You could limit them to certain spells for simplicity, but any protective and war spells should be able to be made. A player charged with a scroll would also be detectable with miteyo as explained above.

PlayDead - I had 3 spells I condesed into 1 here. One was a portal to a safe place on the astral plane, another was to ward off all harm and magic, but playing dead seems more TMW style, so I went with that and it requires less work. Think of this as a pause button. Playing dead would cause a player to use the dead player animation, but still be alive(like @hide). Any movement, spellcasting, attacking, trading or any action other than talking and emotes(maybe not even allow this), would result in breaking the spell. This could be used for sabotage, to ward off players casting betsancs and joyplims on you as they would get a message stating there is no need to cast on the dead or something. All mobs would ignore you.

Illusion - This one is simple... The mage casts the spell and it looks as though he/she has droped an item. The item that appears is random. It could be anything in the game. When a player goes to pick it up, they get a message saying that it has vanished before their eyes. This could be used to annoy those pesky drop stealers, cause havock and confusion during a drop party, and even entice mobs that loot to be interested. This should never be able to enter a trade window for obvious reasons and should require little to no components.

Invisibility/Become shadow - I hm'd and haw'd over how to do this one. It would be nice if a mage could walk through mobs without them noticing them...A good way to get to the Cindy cave. Attacking and casting spells should reveal you. As for how players would perceive them, IDK what is right. Be invisible to everyone except GM's? Only show your name but not you? become a sillouette/shadow? At any rate.. something like this would be a nice addition but it's effects should be very temporary.

Alarm - This would be an invisible object preferably, but could still be detected as magic. It does no more than send a message to the caster when a player or mob comes within it's working radius.

Message - This could accomodate an alarm spell nicely. As a player goes within it's working radius a message is sent to general. This area is occupied. It would be great if you can leave custom messages. Not sure if this is possible. Tresspassers will be zapped on sight!!!

Warp - I know this is in the works. I hope it is limited in it's ability somehow. Limit to the current continent?

MinorTeleport - ok.. this one is neat. Whatever direction the player is facing in is the direction of travel they will teleport to. They can only do so on the screen and it's distance should be random, but the maximum distance should be based on M. attack. Useful for moving faster, getting out of danger zones or even into them. It would give the mage a little edge on moving faster, which is why it should be hard on the magic meter.

Stun - Should affect attributes temporarily. Int and luck for sure... Agility and Dexterity too? All attributes? Like a knock in the noggin without the damage.

Fireball - Another spell that has already been made. I propose that it can affect certain items, like logs and roots or other flammable things. You could setup some neat traps and fire barriers with it. Handling this outside of PVP could be tough, unless you had it not affect players unless in PVP. Is it possible to code an item on the ground to hurt others?

Seekers - This is multiple projectiles being hurdled simultaneously. If there is only one target, it takes all damage. 2 or more targets; damage is divided evenly between all. When only a few mobs.. this would be an aggravating type spell that does damage to each or a big blast if only one target. If a big blast is troubling, you could instead have each target take a maximum amount of damage, even if there is only one.

Enchant - Enchanting an item to have magical bonuses should be a quest in itself. A spell like this should severly tax MP. So much so, that only the highest level mages can perform it. It would require a very rare item, like a clover and even more than that. The max attribute bonus per casting should be 1 and can only be peformed a limited amount of times on one item. If that limit is 3, then a Rock knife could not be enchanted further as it already has a +3 Vitality bonus. I think it should go up to 9, myself, but that is an opinion. This could be a major headache to code in items, so IDK if it would ever come to light, but at least have a quest where we can do this. It would give players more to work towards, but if a player could cast it, you would need to befriend or have a mage to perform this 1. Maybe you can't enchant an already enchanted item.. so if you want a max value sword, you'd need all 9 clovers first, making those things rare, expensive and invaluable to the owner. IDK if I would trust just anyone with 9 clovers though. Let alone my weapon.

Fog - You already have different animations for fog. There are many cloud type spells in the RPG world. Some just inhibit your senses, other are fire based, poison, cold, suffocating, electrical. It would be great if this spell cast clouds based on your level. It could be random types, but the more powerful you are, the more powerful the clouds CAN be. Another area based spell that is a little unpredictable. No worries outside of PVP as it just shouldn't hurt players then. No different than warriors beating on a mob while arrows pass right through them. It can be explained away as the towns protective magic, just what you don't have in the Terranite caves.

Befriend - This is just a pet getting spell. Your pet may not do anything useful other than follow you or sit at your side, or maybe there is a small healing effect. I think any non aggressive mob should be able to be befriended, though an aggressive mob that also fights with you would be fun. It would be like summoned creatures, but never travels that far from you. Pets would slow down your movement rate though and would not warp places with you. It should run away before dying or run away from dangerous mobs before the encounter. No undead creature should be made a pet and the level of the mob could be quite limited. I'd like a Moggun or a Snake of some type

AstralJump - OK, this is weird and quite original. Le's say you have too many mobs around you, you can send one, possibly, to the astral plane, which is nothing but a map of a very large maze. You get no exp for this. It's just an aiding spell, unless you cast it on another in PVP (It should be tough to be successful). Mages could also travel there at will by sending themselves there and/or an NPC could be adding offering to take others there. The maze itself spawns nothing. The only occupants have been sent there by use of the spell. Starting empty and slowly filling more and more from the exiled mobs, this place could be very deadly or a walk in the park. It would be a free for all spawn place for GM's too. If a player dies there, they get sent to their last save stone, if they find an exit, they reappear in the place where they last where in TMW.

ControlOther - Mage must cast and remain stationary. I know of other servers where GM's could diguise themselves as a mob. It would be really neat if you could control a mob for a short duration(till MP meter runs out) and actually attack other mobs with it. You must not move offscreen of yourself or it will be broken. Your possessed victim would still be able to be attacked by players too, thus making it a tougher spell to make use of. Any damage done to caster, or other distractions (casting a spell on the caster, receiving a whisper, etc) would break this spell. Makes PVP more interesting too and overall fun everywhere else. I'd make a bat circle me or something neat.... maybe make a mob move away from a player.... or at one (but no attacking unless PVP)

Notes on alignments
That's it for spells, but dark vs light should also cause changes. Fighting too much in PVP... killing mouboo after you've gotten light magic. There needs to be negative consequences otherwise, players that have learned how to asorm become unstoppable in PVP. They do good deeds just to turn evil and have more power. The gods must punish these heretics and condemn them. Just as Dark mages could learn the power of good. Though that should be a big process too.

I know these are just ideas, but hopefully there are things that have not been thought of... Dispell magic, and a better detect magic are probably the most basic ones to fix up.

I'll look at some coding myself to see what i can actually understand. Maybe I can copy/paste myself a new script to share here instead of saying tha all annoying "You know what you guys should do?".

Thanks for reading. It took too long to do this post.

Awesome post. You should consider being a DEV if you aren't one.

[Crush]

Ideas are worthless without the skills to realize them.

The development team doesn't need "idea" people. Everyone has ideas. Ideas are free. What the TMW development team - what every development team - needs are people who have both the skills and the dedication to put ideas to use.

[Reid]

Ideas are worthless without the skills to realize them.

The development team doesn't need "idea" people. Everyone has ideas. Ideas are free. What the TMW development team - what every development team - needs are people who have both the skills and the dedication to put ideas to use.

I think that the TMW develpment team needs anykind of help right now.
Getting the next magic level conceptualized could bring some "skilled" developers to continue this work, as this is first a long concept work rather than being a complex work.

[Ledmitz]

Ideas are worthless without the skills to realize them.

The development team doesn't need "idea" people. Everyone has ideas. Ideas are free. What the TMW development team - what every development team - needs are people who have both the skills and the dedication to put ideas to use.

You obviously need help. There are many grammar and spelling mistakes, improper english, lack of sound effects and much more... Quests that require a wiki in order to figure out, people to contribute to the wiki, feedback obviously, which is why this forum exists. If you want no feedback, then close the damn forum. I love the game, but your attitude is less than desirable, which is why this place has had so many people leave... poor attitudes. The new Illia quest is amazing, but many have said how the prizes will ruin the economy... only to be told that everything is fine, only to make those changes later, like cutting back on prizes. Isn't it easier and better to just take a bite outta your pride and listen to players for a change? Biting your tongue is the best thing you can do for this game and if you read the post at all, you'd see how I plan on going further with my TMW knowledge.

[Jenalya]

Crush has some point, I've seen quite a lot of people coming to irc, posting here in forum, or telling me about it ingame, with some great ideas for the game. Usually they can talk about it a lot, and while talking, their ideas get bigger and more complicated... but when it comes to the point that there's actually work required to make them happen those people usually just disappear again.

But that doesn't mean we're not interested in ideas and feedback. We are. If those ideas actually get implemented depends on some things:

- It could happen that some experienced dev thinks your idea is great, has some time, and implements it. This happens rarely, especially for larger projects. It's usually more fun to work on your own ideas instead of implementing what someone else conceived. An example for this is the suggestion to provide easier ways for the newbies to get some shorts: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =4&t=16911

- It could happen that your idea is considered nice by developers and other players, but no developer has the motivation and/or time, to implement your idea. In that case, you're encouraged to work on it yourself, we're willing to provide help, instructions, explanations... As long as you're willing to learn and don't expect us to make your idea happen, or even demand it. Contribution from your side might even motivate to help with more than just explanations. An example of this is the Beanie Copter item and quest veryape is currently working on. He started to work on the graphic, provided a quest idea, was willing to put work into the dialog, all this motivated me to help him with the scripting.

- It could be that your idea is bad, or very poorly thought through, or very vague. Often this kind of ideas are phrased like this "Why don't you just ...", "You just have to ..."

I think Ledmitz suggestions fall into the second case, and from what I've seen he is willing to learn about development and put some work into it himself. This is welcomed and we're happy to provide help and feedback.

[Crush]

Ledmitz:

1. You are barking up the wrong tree - I am not a developer anymore

2. My point was that my long experience with this project (since 2006) has shown that complaining and pointing at problems doesn't help to change anything. The only way to get things fixed is to become active and do the fix oneself.

You can write lots of great concepts. I did so myself. The wiki is littered with concepts from me which never came to be. Unless you do something yourself, nobody will ever be motivated to create what someone else came up with. Everyone has too many own ideas.

It is possible to motivate others to help you with your project - I was able to get some people to help me with the graveyard update - but only when you show that you are willing and capable to do much of the actual work yourself and give them creative freedom.

[Ledmitz]

complaining and pointing at problems doesn't help to change anything.

Ideas are worthless without the skills to realize them.

Wow, TY for the posts on this everyone. It looks like Freeyorp took some time into replying. So many have an interest in this. I must admit, I get a little over ambitious at times. Right now I am about to get and learn how to use the adler32 script, so that I can complete my update host for extra sfx in the game without having to manually edit the file this time. I'd also like to see if I can implement music changes properly, by tagging maps with custom tracks made by myself and others. Hopefully things will run smooth. I had started to setup a google site for updates, before I remembered someone telling me that GIT is the optimal method. I can see why now, though this means learning GIT too. As soon as I get it up and running, I'll peer into some of the things that Freeyorp mentioned so that I can understand better what he means. I am not a programmer and couldn't write a script without looking at an example, but I believe I can hack my way into understanding the fundamentals a little better. I want to do it all, but only so much time. I also believe I may be missing fundamental files to look at easiliy, so it might be time that I clone the server data GIT, as well. I just copied the client-data last night to create my update patch.
I feel I should look at the summon spells for dark magic and parum. Updating parum means I either collaborate with some pixel artists or that I create my own, meaning learning even more again. But before doing any work on those, I will confer with Mr.Grey to make sure that what I am trying to do has not already been done. Maybe you can point me in the right direction of where to begin, so that you don't spoil any suprises, Mr.Grey ... ?

I know these are just ideas, but hopefully there are things that have not been thought of... Dispell magic, and a better detect magic are probably the most basic ones to fix up.

I'll look at some coding myself to see what i can actually understand. Maybe I can copy/paste myself a new script to share here instead of saying tha all annoying "You know what you guys should do?".

Thanks for reading. It took too long to do this post.

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 21&t=16938

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 21&t=14071

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 21&t=13886

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 21&t=13940

Show me where I complained. Did I not say I would work on some things myself? Do you not see how I was offended?

[argul]

Ideas are worthless without the skills to realize them.

The famous linux devloper Greg KH discusses currently a similar problem here https://plus.google.com/111049168280159 ... Xy3BKjLwcM

No, Linux is about doing what you want with it, it's not telling others that they must support everything.

So yeah, stop complaining, but contribute.

[Ledmitz]

So yeah, stop complaining, but contribute.

I suppose you think I'll shutup now. Show me where I complained. Show me that I haven't tried to contribute.

[o11c]

So yeah, stop complaining, but contribute.

Show me where I complained. Show me that I haven't tried to contribute.

The latter part of this thread.

As for what things you *could* try to implement ... your suggestions from Miteyo to IronFist are probably all well within your abilities.

[Big Crunch]

Ledmitz, no one is devaluing you in this thread. Crush and argul are only commenting on their past experiences. We all know that without ideas, with stagnation, the whole project dies. What they are asking is that you give implementation a shot. Make your ideas come to pixel life. They are asking that you not become one of the people that have a great idea and then say "I had a great idea and they didnt do anything with it". The devs we have, which are few, have work that they have dedicated themselves to already. They have laid out a plan of attack on them. They dont have the time to work on your ideas as to maintain a semblance of a release schedule, so you may have to. Keep up the ideas and consider joining the team to implement them.

BC

[Ledmitz]

Ah, what can I say? I was provoked. I still plan on moving forward in learning and in many threads I constantly thank and compliment the free work of others. I even submit things myself. I DO try. I WILL keep trying and I AM stubborn as hell, if you haven't noticed yet.

[Big Crunch]

Ah, what can I say? I was provoked. I still plan on moving forward in learning and in many threads I constantly thank and compliment the free work of others. I even submit things myself. I DO try. I WILL keep trying and I AM stubborn as hell, if you haven't noticed yet.

I have noticed, and consider it a positive. Keep at it, bro.

[tsukinokage]

I'm a bit fuzzy on how much magic level affects magic damage right now, but I believe it has some effect, so enabling magic up to level 5 right now could just end in mages being considered overpowered again. Or, even just having a rather boring magic experience, when there's no point in training magic with all the new higher level spells available.

I read this long before, but didn't replied, since I didn't plan to help implement any magic ideas.

After reading the later replies by Crush, Jenalya and some other player/devs, I'm thinking maybe it's true that maybe I can try implement some ideas posted by Ledmitz, since I have the "skills", and I do like any magic related development come into exist. But only few days ago I decided not to play games and uninstalled ManaPlus, and I'm busy finding jobs. After I find a job, I may not have time to play games and no time to contribute, so maybe I'll never try to help implement any magic ideas, but at least, I want to reply what mistergrey posted, since the sentence I quoted here are mainly commenting my earlier reply, and I have the answer long ago for her.

I believe magic level don't have too much magic damage influence, enve it have too much influence, the server maintainer can change it if it's not desiered. So enable level 5 magic will not make mages overpowered again. But as I modified the magic spell pages in the wiki recently, higher level magic can influence how some of the spells works, for instance, when we have high level war magic along with high level general magic, we'll don't need to collect pile of ash/pile of sulphor powder to cast #flar, which will at least let the mages collect iron ore themself without the need to create alts. (I just find out that the modification made by me is already revert by other wiki contributors.) Bear in mind, #flar don't have too much damage, and it really should available for high level mages for free, and it's really sad to not enable level 5 magic to enable this to reduce the boring expereience for mages resulted in endless collecting of items necessary to cast war spells often need to switch between alts. My main char is already level 70, and after hunting for iron ore for days, I believe he still don't have enoguh iron ore to suceed Cindy quest before I decide not to play this game.

For the "no point in training magic with all the new higher level spells available" part, everyone should go and have a look at the magic spell page to see that almost all spells don't cosume anything will give no magic xp, and all the other spell only give 1 xp regardless of level 0 spell or level 1 spell with the only exception that #anwiltyp will give 4 xp, which is the highest at the moment. And also, many of us mages in TMW (including my main char) can already get level 4 magic if level 5 magic is enabled, since we already have the magic xp it requires, which is indicate by #abizit spell that the magic flours from your body. That's 400% xp needed to level up your magic level, but you only need 100% to level up.

And last, I never try to complain, I was just always asking why it should be implemented like this, almost always without direct reply. If the head developers can give reasonable reason for it, I can accept, and if they believed it should be changed too, I was able and planned to help the change. Just as I encouraged and assist the LOF developer to enable level 3 magic long ago in LOF-eathena. LOF leaders plan to not support magic in their new LOF manaserv based game, so I left the dev team after involved in the initial LOF-manaserv game development.
Regards!

[Ledmitz]

After I find a job, I may not have time to play games and no time to contribute

This is a very important factor. I too am in this same position. Work has been temporary or none at all, which is why I am more involved with the game again, mostly playing it. We can't drop our lives for the game, but we can try to keep it growing in our free time, which we may have less of.
I've also realized that typing rather than speaking is also part of the problem. It is hard to tell someone's agenda when you are reading text, especially when language barriers are involved. If you are used to hearing complaints, then you tend to read things as though they are complaints. If you're used to being shutdown, you tend to think everyone is speaking in that manner. Keeping an open mind and healthy attitude can be tough when negativity surrounds you, but we must try. I have found more are willing to help than not, even the the short tempered will lend a hand if you bug them and they are interested.