Proposal for 24/7 public gm witness

[Wombat]

Any GM intervention is a potential player gone,

Correct. Nobody comes on server to see how cool GMs are. However, some players have ability to cause such amounts of annoyance/grief that it can make multiple players to leave and it have to be considered. Putting some GM for 24/7 seems to be nice idea for few most popular public areas. I think goal is not to punish each and every badass in game (punishment also could lead to player loss), but rather try to discourage certain behaviour. Logging chats on its own does not discourages bad attitude, only allows to apply some punishment post-factum. On other hand, sight of GM could make offenders to think twice if they're sure about using foul/offensive language in public area, for example. This could discourage certain attitudes before problem actually happens. IMHO nice idea. Am I miss something?

Not bad logic, I can agree with that.

[o11c]

It's not about punishing every single incident, it's about putting incentives to determine what is acceptable behavior.

The current setup is "behave as long as you think a GM is around, then abuse everything when they're gone".

This is bad.

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The sad thing is that 99% of the people opposed to chat logging use plenty of other services that do the exact same thing ... sometimes *without* the restrictions that we're agreeing to (i.e. only check when a report is given, restrict to player/map/time).

[Hello=)]

It's not about punishing every single incident, it's about putting incentives to determine what is acceptable behavior.

The current setup is "behave as long as you think a GM is around, then abuse everything when they're gone".

This is bad.

Visible GM is a good deterrent which discourages unwanted behaviour. Also, privacy is not affected beyond standard gameplay process which happens anyway. Logging is less deterring as it's not well-visible. However, its worse in regard of privacy. Also, there're other potentially troublesome behaviours like griefing, which are probably should not be welcome as well. For example its quite standard practice for GMs to discourage repeated griefing to prevent players quitting the game. After all, MMORPGs are not all about chats, there is also world interaction and it gives room for troublesome behaviour without telling even a single word in chat. GM appearance would discourage quite many behaviours, even these not involving chats at all.

The sad thing is that 99% of the people opposed to chat logging use plenty of other services that do the exact same thing ... sometimes *without* the restrictions that we're agreeing to (i.e. only check when a report is given, restrict to player/map/time).

Not sure which services you're referring to. For example if we'll take a look on Freenode, their ircds are not logging chats and in fact they have certain restrictions on channels logging policy in their rules.

[Enga]

i think things are going good like it is too.

[wushin]

Well more GMs would mean more democracy among them. IMO, the GM team needs more downtime in between dealing with us. I know I try to behave but I get too much sugar in me and say & do crazy stuff. I'd imagine being a cop isn't a pleasant experience as well. It'd be nice if the GMs had time to play and develop. Honestly you guys should be working one shift ever 7 days. Whether the coverage is 24/7 or not, people will still break the rules. I say more GMs but "Meh." on the 24/7 witness. 24/7 on call duty for someone, sure, but thats up to the GMs.

[yourmistakes]

Mistakes when was the last time you called the police cause someone insulted you?

This sums up my opinion on the matter completely. Grow some stones, people.

[o11c]

One insult? No. Repeated insults, that take away from your ability to use a public place?

We should not, ever, defend bad behavior by way of analogy or technicality.

Per that article ... TMW has an environment that promotes people being (not roleplaying) extremely rude. As a result, it generates more of those people.

[DefinitelyNOTMrWho]

I see this discussion is clearly not going anywhere. I will try to make you people understand something very important, I'll give an example (in theory):

Let's say I'm some internet douchebag who likes to insult people. I want to insult o11c because he is clearly a n00b. Now, I can't insult him in public because I know the public chat is logged and I might get banned, oh golly, what now?how am i ever going to insult o11c?
Hmm...wait...what if i use my 20 alts and whisper all kinds of sick sh*t? He clearly can't get me banned because it's my word against his and screenshots can be faked easily. What a great idea.

Now how can o11c protect himself from me? Hmm...wait...what if he ignores me? That would do the job.

But wait again...why do we need public chat logging if an ignore fixes all these problems?

I hope that now you'll get what I'm trying to say, but if you don't, I'll write it in bold text:
No matter how many rules you will come up with, no matter how hard you try, you can't stop people from being assholes. Never ever. (unless you disable ingame chat)

[Nard]

One insult? No. Repeated insults, that take away from your ability to use a public place?

We should not, ever, defend bad behavior by way of analogy or technicality.

Per that article ... TMW has an environment that promotes people being (not roleplaying) extremely rude. As a result, it generates more of those people.

This remark shows that you do not watch the game very closely. If you did, you would know that insults are quite rare at the moment, and even more when compared to a couple of years ago. Along with other behaviours, it seems to indicate that the base player is getting older, both in age and game practice.

@Mrwho
You are right, in most cases and for most people, ignore (or alike) is the best way to get rid of the issue along with the way Gina acts I think. The suggestions that are made here, have not the goal to suppress insults, which is impossible, but are a trial to find an economic way to discourage them, and, in case big issues happen, to help to solve them, by avoiding misunderstandings, and providing players a possible way to prove their sayings. I witnessed a at least 2 harassments which resulted in player leaving. Both could have been avoided, with better GM "presence" or public chat logging. At the moment, there is no need to be a mage or a computer specialist to know the best moment to insult someone. btw If I know that MrWho ignores me and I still want to harass him, I can still use one of my 20 alts to tell him things that he can hear.
If a rule is set, we must at least try to have them enforced or drop it. If we have not the means to enforce them, then imagine ways to do it.

[DefinitelyNOTMrWho]

This remark shows that you do not watch the game very closely. If you did, you would know that insults are quite rare at the moment, and even more when compared to a couple of years ago. Along with other behaviours, it seems to indicate that the base player is getting older, both in age and game practice.
.

that's very true, insults are very rare, maybe once a month

[AnonDuck]

No matter how many rules you will come up with, no matter how hard you try, you can't stop people from being assholes. Never ever. (unless you disable ingame chat)

^Truth.

[o11c]

Stop them entirely? No.
Stop them from thriving? Yes.

[Crush]

That "cop" analogy for GMs doesn't fit. It would be better to compare them to bouncers at a club. When you misbehave towards other guests, they throw you out and won't let you in anymore.

[DefinitelyNOTMrWho]

That "cop" analogy for GMs doesn't fit. It would be better to compare them to bouncers at a club. When you misbehave towards other guests, they throw you out and won't let you in anymore.

You mean like these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj9VgnQCBfA

[Nard]

That "cop" analogy for GMs doesn't fit. It would be better to compare them to bouncers at a club. When you misbehave towards other guests, they throw you out and won't let you in anymore.

What else than private cops are bouncers?