Collecting content that should be explained better in-game

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Cassy
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Collecting content that should be explained better in-game

Post by Cassy » 20 Jun 2014, 14:48

This topic is suppossed to gather things that aren't well enough explained in the game.
Regarding the game mechanisms everything should be very clearly explained, about content, such as quests, hints are often better than full explanations.
Please everyone help by posting what you think should be explained better.


Needs to be fixed:
  • Focussing Skills: Suggestion for the first skill with the Npc Luca at Tulimshar: Luca should say back to see him again when you have more jobs experiences. So the players will not forget to come back later to get the first skill focussing from Luca. (by Johanne Laliberté)

Fixed:
Main characters:
Lv.94 - Cassy - speedarcher on dark path, bunny-wannabe, would like to ride on a Mouboo once...
Lv.95 - Biqcassy - mage on light path, addicted to her Fluffy Hat, love-hates Fallens, really misses Confused Tree...
Lv.70 - Simca. - dreams of becoming a speedarcher on light path, still has a lot to learn...

Personal development overview | priorities | wiki to-do | wiki profile incl. other characters

[20:24:59] <Cassy> debug npc in crypts!
[20:25:02] <Cassy> just a joke...
[20:25:08] <wushin> DONT DO THAT
[20:25:10] <o11c> !slap Cassy
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Cassy
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Cassy » 09 Jul 2014, 07:43

*reminds on this topic*
Main characters:
Lv.94 - Cassy - speedarcher on dark path, bunny-wannabe, would like to ride on a Mouboo once...
Lv.95 - Biqcassy - mage on light path, addicted to her Fluffy Hat, love-hates Fallens, really misses Confused Tree...
Lv.70 - Simca. - dreams of becoming a speedarcher on light path, still has a lot to learn...

Personal development overview | priorities | wiki to-do | wiki profile incl. other characters

[20:24:59] <Cassy> debug npc in crypts!
[20:25:02] <Cassy> just a joke...
[20:25:08] <wushin> DONT DO THAT
[20:25:10] <o11c> !slap Cassy
Lucifer
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Lucifer » 15 Jul 2014, 22:21

It should be explained somewhere ingame that dexterity for bows and strength for melee weapons are much, much more effective in multiples of 10. Going from 98 to 99 Strength for melee, 1 attack power is gained. Going from 99 to 100 strength for melee, 20 attack power is gained. Without any such explanation, the most reasonable assumption would be that the improvement is about the same from one point to the next. It isn't.
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SriNitayanda
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by SriNitayanda » 15 Jul 2014, 22:28

Not explained in game but in wiki: https://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/stats
A bonus of (Dexterity/10)^2 for missile weapons (such as bows).
A bonus of (Strength/10)^2 for melee weapons.
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Lucifer » 15 Jul 2014, 22:33

With respect, Nita, what you quoted doesn't even touch on why every 10 points has a jump. It doesn't mention truncation, so those formulae would actually be smooth based on what you quoted.
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by SriNitayanda » 15 Jul 2014, 22:42

I think its quite easy to understand from these quotes, that every 10 points of each stat you get a bonus, if you think its not clear enough make a wiki account, and add the example you wrote here.
Why every 10 points there is a bonus? are you kidding me? that was how it was coded.
Last edited by SriNitayanda on 15 Jul 2014, 22:43, edited 1 time in total.
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2013-11/26/#General.log:[15:00] veryape: meh, guild is down, we cant conspire at all
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Lucifer » 15 Jul 2014, 22:43

I'm sorry that you don't understand that a decimal can be squared.
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by SriNitayanda » 15 Jul 2014, 22:45

Again if you think its not clear, make a wiki account and write it better, i didn't write it, but it was clear to me when i read it.
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2013-11/26/#General.log:[15:00] veryape: meh, guild is down, we cant conspire at all
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Lucifer » 15 Jul 2014, 22:53

SriNitayanda wrote:Again if you think its not clear, make a wiki account and write it better, i didn't write it, but it was clear to me when i read it.
Done. This issue is now clarified on the wiki stats page.
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by SriNitayanda » 15 Jul 2014, 22:56

Awesome :alt-3:
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2013-11/26/#General.log:[15:00] veryape: meh, guild is down, we cant conspire at all
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by thusmark » 15 Jul 2014, 22:59

Note All divisions ( / ) in RMW are integer divisions (quotient).
This was always there ... Still, not really anything big. And Lucifer's edit makes it easier for people who don't read the complete page. Still, maybe Gwendolyn could say something about this effect, wiki should really be a last resort for people if they're confused about something. The barbarians could speak about Strength while the principal of the Magic School or Auldsbel could speak about Intelligence ...
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Lucifer » 15 Jul 2014, 23:04

SriNitayanda wrote:Why every 10 points there is a bonus? are you kidding me? that was how it was coded.
I read the code for this. I'm not convinced that it wasn't entirely accidental:
int str, dstr;
str = battle_get_str(bl); //STR
dstr = str / 10;
batk = dstr * dstr + str; //base_atkを計算する
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Meicchi » 03 Jan 2015, 01:19

A little thing about better explanation: I wonder if it was just me that got some misunderstanding for this, but I think Peter (Nicholas' apprentice) should explain better what is the "new kind of steel boots". I've thought from the beggining that it was actually Steel Boots what he was offering, until I just stopped at wiki and saw that it should be Warlord Boots, and I still had to test it to make sure it was this. I'm not sure if some other new players would get confused by the current text but I think it lacks clarity.
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Altus Institute » 06 Jan 2015, 22:13

All the part with Nicholas the blacksmith and his apprentice should be review to a better understanding.

He could say if you have already done the steel shield and say, that he can do another for you but this time the player will not have bonus exp.

Clear the options when we have to choose the steel shield or warlord helmet.
Because if you have the items to do the warlord helmet you can choose accidentaly the others helmet at the same price and with less items needed.

And she is right about the warlord boots, need to clarify this part too.


the part with wyara, about the mana potion...need to be more easy to find it.
Same for the old wizard and the astral soul skill.
Same for Sagatha, if we dont use the wiki, how to know we need to kill scorpions to be accepted by her? At what level?
Sagatha give her spells depending about the #abizit level, nowhere this is explained (means wiki).


Setzer quest should be more explained, or clarify : the monster oil part is just complex.
And the wiki is a maze about this part.
I did it today, and just waste all my items (20 pearls, 40 snake skins, black scorpion stingers... ) i was really happy....really really really.
The brew part is a mess, its a TOTAL random.
The wiki about this is just a mess too.
Someone wrote about %, who care about this if we cant do this part logicaly?
Each time i have got the dark gray but impossible to get the potion, and lost the dark gray, and when i dont have the dark gray the game gave me the possibility to do the potion....so each time i just lose my items.
I have got the lazurite robe and each time i died. wtf with the % wrote in the wiki?
THERE NO LOGICAL IN THERE :|
and you talk in the wiki about chance?
what is the chance that you can encode in a software?
Finally i got the weapon when i just click without looking for what to do : its a nonsense

For a better understanding, the sezter quest is a great quest, but the potion part is just weird.
19:24:32 wushin So, can you do something?
19:24:52 Altus I can do nothing.
19:25:07 wushin So you are highly capable of doing nothing?
19:25:20 Altus yerp =D
19:25:31 wushin Crap, im only highly capable of doing something...=/
19:25:34 cassy Its ok wu-wu, we all needs to start somewhere...
19:25:43 deepthought wtf
19:25:46 wushin .....
19:25:52 cassy *pokes* deepthought
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Re: Collecting content that should be explained better in-ga

Post by Meicchi » 07 Jan 2015, 00:50

Altus Institute wrote: The brew part is a mess, its a TOTAL random.
The wiki about this is just a mess too.
Someone wrote about %, who care about this if we cant do this part logicaly?
Each time i have got the dark gray but impossible to get the potion, and lost the dark gray, and when i dont have the dark gray the game gave me the possibility to do the potion....so each time i just lose my items.
I have got the lazurite robe and each time i died. wtf with the % wrote in the wiki?
THERE NO LOGICAL IN THERE :|
and you talk in the wiki about chance?
what is the chance that you can encode in a software?
Finally i got the weapon when i just click without looking for what to do : its a nonsense

For a better understanding, the sezter quest is a great quest, but the potion part is just weird.
I gotta disagree this part. Wiki has the whole info about how to succeed in monster oil crafting. See, my archer's int was like 10 (I didn't reset my stats for this) and I took only 3 tries to get the oil correctly. Alright, there's some luck involved due to a tricky behaviour in the code:

Code: Select all

L_monster_oil_alizarin:
    set @use_leaf$, "AlizarinHerb";
    set @use_color, 1;
    goto L_monster_oil_leaf_color;

L_monster_oil_gamboge:
    set @use_leaf$, "GambogeHerb";
    set @use_color, 2;
    goto L_monster_oil_leaf_color;

L_monster_oil_cobalt:
    set @use_leaf$, "CobaltHerb";
    set @use_color, 4;
    goto L_monster_oil_leaf_color;

L_monster_oil_leaf_color:
    if (countitem (@use_leaf$) < 1)
        goto L_monster_oil_out_of_leaves;

    callsub S_monster_oil_random_move;
    if (@color & @use_color)
        goto L_monster_oil_pc_bad;
    set @color, @color | @use_color;
    delitem @use_leaf$, 1;
Yada yada yada. But explaining this more clearly: the random move (adding color for the odd turns and removing for the even turns) occurs BEFORE your leaf get on action. This means you actually doesn't know the actual color in cauldron when you choose your leaf, just the prior color, so it's a try. It means that sometimes you just need to risk out putting a mauve when you're into a secondary color (green, f.e.) and hopes for the mixture to add the red you're waiting for to achieve dark grey. Which also means that if it says "It's currently a dark gray.", then it will add or remove a color before your mauve leaf effect and this is why you have the frustrating sensation of failure.

For the INT % influence, it increases your chance of something really bad doesn't occur at all, so you can keep the brewing calmly.

Code: Select all

L_monster_oil_pc_bad:
    if (rand(readparam(bInt) + 100) > 60)
        goto L_monster_oil_pc_bad_ok;
(...)
L_monster_oil_pc_bad_ok:
    mes "Your leaf dissolves but seems to have no effect.";
    next;
    goto L_monster_oil_loop; // get back to leaf choices

if (rand(readparam(bInt) + 100) > 70)
        goto L_Return; // so nothing happens at all
It's really complex and requires a lot of attemps until you figure the thing (ok, 3 for me, plus the times I tried it on test server, two more), but it's a reasonable and well explained quest after all.

Now the quest that really bugs me it's the Resist Poison skill quest. This one is really impossible to figure out if you don't read the wiki or give a peek on code, since it's all about guessing. Unless, by chance (I think 1/12 or a bit more), when you get the values to be multiples of themselves and thus the nurse will tell you how much times is the scale between one and other (and keep in note that this information is not on wiki - gotta edit it myself though). Other than that you cannot say if "much" is less than "a lot" or "a lot" is more than "very much" or not until you look at the tables. Which means that it's not intuitive. And I wasn't the only one so far that got dizzy by it.

I've been trying to think about a more logical approach to this myself for a while but I'm still not sure if it will be something like trading twelve by a dozen right now. I think I'd like to discuss it with the dev team.

Edit:

My bad, the wiki does say about she telling the ratio between two elements. Anyway it should be a bit clearer and I'm on it.
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