Regarding Spiders

[deepthought]

I remember as if it were yesterday that the most poisonous animal in the country is spider. What I'm trying to say is spiders are indeed poisonous. Why aren't spiders poisonous in the game ? I say let's make spiders poisonous a bit more than black scorpions and change their stats maybe..

[wushin]

They are relativily close to each other in level stats. Poison is most likely the game changer here. I do also see other spiders that are capable of poison (Rossy Quest has them) I'd not be opposed to this.

[deepthought]

Yeah I forgot. The spiders in Rossy quest are venomous. I would like to know why in the first place the spiders other than Rossy quest spiders are not made poisonous ?

[wushin]

No idea the spiders were added way way way before my time. I've never been happy with Mob or Equipment stats.

[deepthought]

I'm also not happy with their stats. I guess something should be done regarding the stats and spiders should definitely be poisonous. At least equal to black scorpions in poison. For making the mob a bit easier you can cut off a few Dex or agility points.

[Cassy]

https://github.com/themanaworld/tmwa-se ... a/pull/181
If this goes into the game Spiders will be as much poisonous as Black Scorpions (which is not much, I rather see this as cosmetic change).

[wushin]

This is on the Official test server and can be tested now.

[deepthought]

I've talked to some players in Mana world and most of them don't want this change. They say," Infantry helm is the only thing low class warriors use. Its unfair if you make spiders difficult for us."

[Cassy]

The change is small.
It took me crazy 5 minutes to get poisoned by three spiders attacking me when I tested the change.
Level 90 but... *searches* Vit50, Luk1 - warriors who need that helmet have better stats.
Those 5 minutes were long though, more than avarage.

If those who complained really tested the change on the test server and are still not happy with it they are free to tell us here.
We have an open ear

[deepthought]

I don't have a character in test server. I guess we need few more people to test. Would appreciate feedback from 50's and 40's players.

[wushin]

The quantity spiders around and attack strength of the spider makes the poison almost never show up as DPS kill anyone under about 80. In small groups or with the player pulling the mob the poison is a nice added challenge.

[thusmark]

There are many non-poisonous (by which I mean non-lethal to humans) spiders; actually most spiders are relatively harmless. I don't see the problem with having Archants and Spiders non-poisonous while Huntsman Spiders are poisonous. Also, if we're going by reality, you might want to consider the fact that most species of snakes and spiders shy away from humans; does this mean that most Snakes and Spiders will become non-aggro?

Not too thrilled with the idea, mainly because of the way it affects the lower level classes. Archers hardly ever care about poisoning; poison is mainly bad only for warriors. So this change just toughens things up for warriors. Yeah, I know that the class disparity has been talked about many times, but I'd suggest making things tougher for archers before making it tougher for warriors. Idk, maybe have Lady Skeletons , Zombies and Fallen with a range of 7? (This is just a joke, I don't expect such drastic measures ... though it'd be fun to implement this as a joke for a period of time ) That'd not only make things tougher for archers, but we might get to see more M. Eye users. Yeah, this is deviating from the topic, but warriors, those who play fairly, have it hard as it is and just seeing things made tougher for you while archers suffer no penalties from the change is just frustrating. Yeah, this is a bit OOT, but still. >.>

@Cassy: lvl 90 doesn't help, Spiders need a lot of accuracy; at level 90, you easily have enough, what with having enough dex and the level itself contributing to the accuracy. So, even with that vit, 5 min will seem like a long time to you. At lower levels, 5 min against Spiders isn't a long time, what with all the misses and all. And at level 50 with 55 vit, 11 luck, 50 dex, I kept missing half the time and got poisoned within 2 min with only 2 spiders on me. Also, 50s players normally don't put so much in vit, nor in dex. And more in luk, though only 11 luk is needed to avoid crits from Spiders. This build was to kill Spiders with minimum loss of HP, but ... Not to mention defence is lowered once a char is poisoned.

[deepthought]

Yes I do agree its hard for warriors. But you should also notice that the game is best played in groups. What warriors can do, archers can't and what archers can warriors can't.

Level 90 would be way to easier for spiders as you have greater accuracy and evasion. Thanks for the feedback thusmark. I agree with you. 50s players don't put that much in vit. Getting poisoned in 2min ? You mean 120 seconds of spider attacking you ? Or is it 120 seconds of group of spiders attacking you ? I guess its okay if you are getting poisoned when couple of spiders attack.

I suggest to lower the dexterity or level of spider, increase the range, maybe reduce the amount of poison a little bit. Make the range of spiders 1 and also increase their walk speed.

[thusmark]

If poison is implemented, decreasing agi and level of Spiders would be a good idea. For the range part, with the current walk delay and recovery time of Spiders, nothing short of 5 would have any effects on an archer. An example would be when testing Cassy's Tulim caves, a level 60 archer collected all Witches and disposed them off without getting hit even once (though I believe this was before the numbers were increased). Another example would be a Banshee handling 3 Dread Pirates without range being a problem (spawn parties are good for tests, we should have more. ... No kitty emote. :alt-home:). Increasing range of Spiders to 5 or 6 would be fine.

No problems with poison levels. Just saying it's frustrating to not be able to hit and get poisoned on top of that, trying to get a rare drop (actually 2) which is used to make an item which is necessary for a warrior only.

Now the OOT part. >.>

Yes I do agree its hard for warriors. But you should also notice that the game is best played in groups.

Yes, it's good if the game is played in groups. But the fact remains that groups are mostly favourable to archers, they get most of the drops and most of the exp. I used to play in gy as warrior, now I know better; they're just cannon fodder to make things easier for archers, archers can easily do without them, it just makes things trickier. If I take my warrior to gy, I'd prefer to fight in a group with only warriors, no archers. Though there are kind players who leave items for the warriors, but they are few ...

What warriors can do, archers can't and what archers can warriors can't.

What archers can do, warriors can't. Yes, completely agreed. What warriors can do, archers can't? Sorry, I have to disagree. I think the only examples here are Illia and, maybe, Candor (if you have to run), and these are specific examples; in general gameplay, archers can do all the things warriors can and more.

[deepthought]

A level 60 archer doged all the attacks of the spiders in tulim cave ? That's impossible. Spiders have an accuracy score of 160 and level 60 archer with decent agility of 40 and cat ears would have 93 evasion score. The accuracy score of spider exceeds player's evasion way too much. Which means spider has 95% chance to hit the player which is the maximum. So it's almost impossible to dodge the spider's attacks at level 60. Maybe he can evade 1 attack. Not more than that. Level 60 archer with speed skill may do a little better but he wont be hunting at peace.

Range 5 for spiders ? lol. You don't need range 5 for spiders to make it tough for archers. Range 2 will do the trick. I'm telling this because of my experiance in graveyard. In graveyard where skeletons are most powerful, I and also other archers often get killed by lady skeletons. Because of range 2. When 2 lady skeletons attack on me, It's hard not to get hit. With range 2 archers mostly at level 30-50 who are still new to game have it hard to adjust the range 2 of spiders and range 1 of black scorpions.

With these improvents I guess the mob (spiders, scorpions) would be hard hitting for both archers and warriors.