The Mana World Forums

Reminders:
A minimum of 15 votes and 69% approval are required.
Poll runs for 30 days.

Proposal

Add a portal on Keshlam Swamps allowing players to revisit the Keshlam Adventurer's Guild and redo the final showdown.

Reward will be replaced from Blue Rose to Savior Armor.
(Savior Armor HP Bonus will go from +500 to probably +100 after event is over, still discussing with staff about final details; But ppl said it deserved a quest, so...)

Rationale
Allow anyone doing Legacy to see the epilogue. (It'll be uploaded as a video to YouTube later, hopefully, however)

Notes
* Quest cannot be completed solo, so it might need nerfing or... Really will be useless.
* This being said, we are speaking about adding a quest to a server which probably will not have many players after rEvolt release
* But scripts are already finished so it is possible.
* (It was done to be a non-repeatable event, for Halloween only, so it needs 69% YES votes to be kept as a quest)
* Earlier stages (like passwords and switches) will be disabled
* Post-snapshot quest; Means it will not affect rEvolt regardless of decision.

I think it's a must-have as quest. Would be a waste to just remove epic battle that also plays a lot of pranks with custom mechanics and also shows quite a nice cutscene, the only cutscene in whole TMW.

Furthermore, I can suggest (nerfing or not), ensure it isn't beatable alone. At the end of day it always meant to be MMORPG And like 3-4 reasonably skilled players can beat it, if doing properly and being lucky. And no, team quests aren't "useless". They encourage cooperation and MMO part of the game.

As for savior armor... yes, and likely you shouldn't give it to lowest levels as easy as it used to be. This makes early quests/progress very fast/unbalanced.

t3st3r wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 18:54

I think it's a must-have as quest. Would be a waste to just remove epic battle that also plays a lot of pranks with custom mechanics and also shows quite a nice cutscene, the only cutscene in whole TMW.

Furthermore, I can suggest (nerfing or not), ensure it isn't beatable alone. At the end of day it always meant to be MMORPG And like 3-4 reasonably skilled players can beat it, if doing properly and being lucky. And no, team quests aren't "useless". They encourage cooperation and MMO part of the game.

As for savior armor... yes, and likely you shouldn't give it to lowest levels as easy as it used to be. This makes early quests/progress very fast/unbalanced.

I agree. It is a really nice team quest, even if most players move on to rEvolt.

The Final Showdown is really fun to do with other players, and I'd love to see it kept on the server!
I also think it's a great idea to add it as the Saviour Armours quest, and slightly ironic too.

SpeedDuck wrote: ↑31 Oct 2020, 19:34

I agree. It is a really nice team quest, even if most players move on to rEvolt

If you can't do something like this in reasonable timeframe it's maybe ok to assume place is dead/abandoned... at which point problem solves itself, one way or another.

I never seem to be able to vote a simple yes or no right away. The quest as s gives a LOT of exp, so using swamp to access it makes sense, but I was wondering about other things too. I like the Underworld and being able to visit Old Tulimshar and the Underworld map looks like it could lead to swamp because of the matching tilesets. I even like the first attempt at swamp being an active Terogan, but it would be nice if getting back there later wasn't such a chore, SO... I wonder if making the swamp more accessible and having it connect to Underworld would be something others have an interest in. I'd be more than happy to do the map work. There is one thing that bugs me I'd fix....IF old Tulimshar was still accessible, I'd add something between the Underworld and old Tulimshar because entering a crypt and being outside on the next map is a bit confusing. The exit leading North and the exit moving player South is also problematic and I see this on more and more maps lately...... North should always be North and South , South, etc with a few magical exceptions because the player holding up/North after entering old Tulimshar resulted in leaving the map and wasting a rose, but more than that, the player loses sense of direction.

In short:
A more easy to get to swamp for players that have already done in Terogan > Ruined Swamp > Underworld > Old Tulimshar
> Showdown (maybe one of the first buildings on the map)

???

Nothing ever prints right here... GGggrrrrr. "> Showdown (maybe one of the first buildings on the map)" should be forked from Underworld

Ah, neither underworld nor old Tulimshar are getting pushed; They are maps for GM use only.

As for XP... hey, Led, do you prefer players getting their XP Botting-World-style? By grinding lame non-dangerous mobs for weeks, using lame "non-AFK bot"? So whole thing just as dangerous and exciting as paving the roads or washing the floor? Not to mention it doesn't contrubutes to MMO part at all. Assuming viable MMORPG gameplay still a goal, I'd say game mechanic is better off encouraging dangerous but rewarding actions where ppl have to stick together. I've say Final Showdown ultimately achieved this part any day - and been very useful for keeping game active and alive.

Actually, if there're bugs in game mechanics I would say ability to get 100+ levels without real chance to die by half-botting activity would be glaring example of MMORPG gameplay mechanics going really wrong ways. Best games handle this by making mechanics dangerous and unpredictable enough so botting just turns inefficient or unrewarding or too troublesome. At which point it doesn't even takes GMs to deal with it.

This said I have some suggestion: maybe take player levels into account? Or maybe limit minimal level. Low levels were levelling way too fast compared the rest of ingame mechanics - that's obviously unbalanced. Guess this part is better to be addressed since it sometimes been possible to win without being seriously endangered if rest of team does really well. I'd say few extra spawns on phase 2 and maybe start of 3 wouldn't hurt. Well, actually, they would. But that's the whole point!

Where did the botting thing come from? Seemed out of nowhere and honestly, if enough ppl were on the showdown, you could bot it pretty easy.. most of the time I was there with Ledmitz, I didn't hardly move from Zax and held X the whole time. As for play styles... there are different classes and stats to allow for different play styles. If someone wants to bot in GY all day it doesn't hurt me any. If you mean the exp is earned in showdown, I disagree, but I like it is there before the snapshot like that. Just not a very action-packed battle there, look-wise. I'd prefer it's easier to get to and gain less exp from it and feel that would increase co-op, not hinder it as people would grind there normally if groups could get there without so much effort. Don't mention limited roses please cause we all know that 1 means nothing if you already have a blue rose. I'd love to see a bit of action from zax though... just animations would be cool. IDU why we can't see other players attacking Zax there either and wonder if it can be fixed.

That would be because Zax is a NPC, and uhm, NPCs cannot attack nor be attacked XD

And roses are exclusive for the halloween event, they were already removed :p

jesusalva wrote: ↑09 Nov 2020, 22:28

That would be because Zax is a NPC, and uhm, NPCs cannot attack nor be attacked

Normal NPCs can't be targetted with "a", but Zax can unless it's a workaround by using stationary mob
on the same square. Makes me wonder if it could look better if the parts were reversed so that the stationary mob is the animated character, while the NPC script runs on an invisible/null sprite, assuming that's how it was done.

Ledmitz wrote: ↑11 Nov 2020, 13:21

jesusalva wrote: ↑09 Nov 2020, 22:28

That would be because Zax is a NPC, and uhm, NPCs cannot attack nor be attacked

Normal NPCs can't be targetted with "a", but Zax can unless it's a workaround by using stationary mob
on the same square. Makes me wonder if it could look better if the parts were reversed so that the stationary mob is the animated character, while the NPC script runs on an invisible/null sprite, assuming that's how it was done.

There is no monster... It is 100% NPC.
It uses the same sprite ID as a monster, however, so M+ can get confused and allow you to attack it. (But server-side, your attack action is sending TALK command)

I was able to target Zax by pressing X button on my controller during the whole run except during the first stage.

I also attacked him like I would a monster, but I'll trust Jesus's word on what is actually happening ...