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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 19 Dec 2008, 14:06
by Turmfalke
MasterKenobi wrote: I believe that the whole point of this thread is to get the "players" feedback. Do you want our feedback or not? By these responses it seems that you maybe you don't. I didn't see anyone talking about doubling/tripling experience or raising levels. I also don't see anything that would illicit this type of response.

The fact of the matter is, the exp. modification is unpopular in the game community. In fact, I've talked to dozens of players(in game) and received not one positive comment. I don't agree that it should go back the way it was, but I think it does need tweaking(as I've stated before). I've noticed other players in other threads addressing this very issue(Thx radiant & others) and I have every confidence that the developers will work it out in due time. But to ask for our feedback and then come back with "lets just raise everyone's level to 99 to show them what test means" and "players often don't know what's best for the game" doesn't encourage our honest feedback.

I will say that I like the "idea" intended by the update. It's more realistic(mutation), and encourages team play(team bonus). But it feels like the exp. levels are low for individual players as opposed to those who team up. I could go on, but I would just be repeating what others have already said.

These are just my opinions of course. No offense is meant to any person(s).

MK :)
What did you excepted? It is bit like then the government increase the taxes, none will be happy about it, but with the time the people will accept it.

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 19 Dec 2008, 15:38
by feline monstrosity
Personally I love the new changes. Yesterday I had a whale of a time slaughtering spiders, black scorpions and red slimes with three or four other players. The Jack O isn't the only group monster, you can kill any type of monster with other people provided that they are right for your level (i.e. you don't kill them in one or two hits).

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 20 Dec 2008, 11:14
by crazy
MasterKenobi wrote: I will say that I like the "idea" intended by the update. It's more realistic(mutation), and encourages team play(team bonus). But it feels like the exp. levels are low for individual players as opposed to those who team up. I could go on, but I would just be repeating what others have already said.

These are just my opinions of course. No offense is meant to any person(s).

MK :)

i think that most player that do not like the changes agree on that noone asked for more exp than before or anything just to make exping alone more attractive.

feline monstrosity wrote:Personally I love the new changes. Yesterday I had a whale of a time slaughtering spiders, black scorpions and red slimes with three or four other players. The Jack O isn't the only group monster, you can kill any type of monster with other people provided that they are right for your level (i.e. you don't kill them in one or two hits).

ok then i think you are willing to be on line for as many hours i play so i have a party?
sorry if it sound bad (ironic etc i mean i cannot recall any more correct word) the last sentence but try to exp alone and see the exp you will get. noone disagree with exp in party they just do not like the exp they get when alone

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 20 Dec 2008, 13:53
by Rotonen
So essentially the friction from the community is about how big the exp gap between soloing and with the party bonus is?

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 20 Dec 2008, 14:38
by Wombat
I've taken a break from playing because of the experience gap. The gap between solo and group fighting is big enough to discourage me from playing. I could fight the Jacko over and over and get 5-10k exp each time or I could run around collecting partial xp from crap monsters and not get nearly as much. I played too often for me to enjoy playing with the dramatic decline with my present character and several others that I normally played along with stopped playing. I enjoy the game, as far as game play is concerned, but many people, including everyone in my town I got involved in the game, has quit. I figure with a break I might enjoy leveling a second character. I will reorganize once I regain interest.

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 20 Dec 2008, 17:41
by crazy
Rotonen wrote:So essentially the friction from the community is about how big the exp gap between soloing and with the party bonus is?

for me (or from what i have read if i understand them correct) the biggest "problem"* is that if exp alone the exp gained is little small* and find party to exp is not so easy.


so i do not think anyone is against the change as an idea but how the exp alone is discouraged with the new system.



*i know it is not problem but do not take the word litteral (my english is little poor )
**comparing to exp alone before


and a question: what is the max level 99 or 255?

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 20 Dec 2008, 17:44
by Crush
Players are already quitting because of the exp changes? I wonder where they are going, because we got still 113 people online right now.

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 20 Dec 2008, 19:17
by Wombat
Obviously they aren't playing the game. I am not comparing my experience with the game statistics nor am I demanding anything. I was merely relating my experience as "feedback". I'm glad the game hasn't dropped its numbers.

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 20 Dec 2008, 21:26
by Len
Crush wrote:Players are already quitting because of the exp changes? I wonder where they are going, because we got still 113 people online right now.
when I was on today it was 123 so..... It is unfortunate that no matter what we do someone is always going to be unhappy, but that's part of life

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 20 Dec 2008, 22:36
by Wombat
The weekend usually sees an increase in participation from weekdays. I wouldn't use this as a gage as to whether something is necessarily working or not. I was not attempting to communicate that the game wasn't working. I recommend an understanding of game theory for how I am currently relating to the game. A decrease in experience isn't going to necessarily encourage me to continue. If there are other aspects to the game that would cause me to continue (such as enjoying the social aspects of the game) my discouragement could be offset.

Other things to take into consideration is the increased availability of the game. An increase in numbers is definitely a good sign the game is operating efficiently in some capacity. But it should be given that numbers should and will increase as this game is becoming more available through debian packages where those interested in new games have a limited assortment of games to choose from.

Why my personal thoughts should reflect anything other than how I am engaging in the game personally is questionable. I can't explain why the game increases or decreases its statistics. These are things I don't have control over. I can relate how I am interacting with the game. This is called feedback. Why those that develop the game and some fans want to find the quickest way to dismiss feedback I can't say. I recommend y'all stop being defensive and take a line from someone on this thread and let the feedback come without trying to burn the feedback of its obvious momentum.

You did something unpopular and I'm not condemning it. I shouldn't have to face a trial by fire everytime I open my mouth on this site.

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 21 Dec 2008, 00:34
by Crush
When you are interested in game design reading about game theory won't give you much. Game theory is mostly about generalizing decision problems.

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 21 Dec 2008, 01:13
by Len
Wombat wrote: This is called feedback. Why those that develop the game and some fans want to find the quickest way to dismiss feedback I can't say. I recommend y'all stop being defensive and take a line from someone on this thread and let the feedback come without trying to burn the feedback of its obvious momentum.

You did something unpopular and I'm not condemning it. I shouldn't have to face a trial by fire everytime I open my mouth on this site.
With every major change a few people complain, (you should have seen the speed attack bug fix complaining) If a problem truly exists its going to be fixed in the near future, and then people will complain about how much better it was now :lol:

BTW, Most people feel it was a good decision but needs to be reworked a little (and I agree)
But, don't think for a moment that I speak for any developer other than myself

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 21 Dec 2008, 02:49
by bigglesworth
It's going to take a few months to level my main character, anyway. The idea of the impact of the solo-experience-points-reward reduction isn't as tangible to me as it is to a medium levelled player.

What I'm trying to say is this. I'm only slightly disappointed that the experience points reward is much lower than before, delaying the inevitable next level. It's not going to cause me to uninstall TMW.

I just wish the reduction wasn't so costly or dramatic. I'm confident it will be adjusted in the future. ;)

In the time between now and then, in addition to killing monsters, I'm collecting herbs, silk coccoons and other silly things. They really add up if you don't count them all each time you collect one. If you as a player take the time out to try a diversion, do you know what else adds up? Your experience points towards your next level! :)

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 21 Dec 2008, 05:25
by Wombat
Crush wrote:When you are interested in game design reading about game theory won't give you much. Game theory is mostly about generalizing decision problems.
Why wouldn't it give you much? Game theory is very much about decisions. I offered the hyperlink to avoid confusing it with "games" as people commonly understand them.

An application of game theory would look at many issues: If you offer less incentive for leveling and there isn't anything left to conquer, then my desire for a second character would make sense if I enjoyed some other aspect of the game, such as socializing, gameplay or graphics (and I do).

I'd claim that most people like the game (as opposed to necessarily "liking the changes") and get over changes if they don't compromise convivial interest in the game. But let's say someone is playing several MMORPGs because they enjoy power leveling and leveling get's hindered. Or let's say they don't have very much time to play and when they do, they try to fit as much in as they can so they can keep up with friends. These changes have challenged a player's reason for playing.

Because conviviality is a strong purpose for playing games, it would stand to reason criteria for an MMORPG "game theory" would attempt to find the many reasons people play MMORPGs as adding players also adds to game enjoyment.

The gage of success isn't necessarily "more players" but when feedback is offered, shooting down honest messengers helps nobody. While the game population is one way of measuring success, another is "feedback". It would increase your understanding of what makes people play the game.

So maybe you (and other developers) would want to stop intervening in the feedback section if you want honest feedback? I feel some of this feedback was generated by developers defending themselves, which encourages siding with/against the game creators over offering honest opinions.

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Posted: 21 Dec 2008, 18:15
by Black Don
My two cents...
Don't like it. It was really hard to make the 23 million xp need to reach my next before now it even harder. I make about the same xp per monster killing on my own as I do with a group now, except groups can kill faster. But all in all I make less then half the xp could before in a one hour period of play. The monsters should be more constant in how much xp they give. For example... if an avg snake gives 400 xp then most should be giving 350 - 450 xp but right now bulk of the snakes give about 200-300 xp. That is what people are complaining about. So unless you meant to drop the amount of xp a snake gives so that I can now fight mountain snakes and regular snakes and feel no difference in how hard it is.