The official server flamewar topic

[blackrazor]

You underestood wrong. I do repeat: I was never offered any position in TMWC. I have learned that TMWC exists from a forum post, while being kicked out of my own irc channel and having all my powers removed. IT WAS ALL PLOTTED AGAINST ME ON A SECRET CHANNEL!

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 95#p132395

I explain: You wrote you were never offered any position in TMWC.
Frost posted a link where you have been offered a position in TMWC, as GM.

What I don't like about all of this, is that to some people the TMWC look like bad people because of this.
I can tell you guys that they are very nice people.

Platyna was not offered a GM position. She was put up for nomination, which is a totally different thing. There, she would have to win 75% of the YES votes, and 60 YES votes. Now I'm not saying it should be any different for Platyna, but to use that as proof that she was offered a position is disingenuous.

In any case, I think Frost posted that link to try and show that what Platyna wanted was her old position back, as top-admin. Which is not as radical as it might seem, since there was no clear method within the project before to remove a top-admin against their will (whether they receive an email or not). So everyone was really in uncharted waters, as far as TMW rulings were concerned, when Platyna was removed against her will, and she wanted that decision reversed.

In the past, as supported by the links the administration gave in this thread: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 1&start=99, if someone high-up in the administration (top-admin, department admin, senior developer) had a serious problem with a co-worker, they were the ones to personally decide to stay or go. Never before had they instead decided to throw out a fellow high-up co-worker or even a higher ranking admin, against their will.

Anyways, this is not about bad or good. Perhaps fair or not fair, right or wrong, due process or not due process ... but seriously, don't try to make it personal by pasting a bad or good label on it.

[Len]

Let's be honest, I don't see any chance that either side is going to see eye to eye. Nothing is going to be resolved here, for better or worse this is the new norm. Platyna, and Blackrazor I wish you luck with .Net, you have an uphill battle ahead of you.

[blackrazor]

Let's be honest, I don't see any chance that either side is going to see eye to eye. Nothing is going to be resolved here, for better or worse this is the new norm. Platyna, and Blackrazor I wish you luck with .Net, you have an uphill battle ahead of you.

I'm not on anybody's side. I just call it as I see it. Probably, Platyna sees me on the TMWC's side, and the TMWC (and their supporters) see me on Platyna's side, which is a good indication that I am neutral regarding the individual dispositions involved. If it could be said that I'm on anyone's side, it would be what I consider to be truth, fairness, and democratic community involvement.

[Len]

I'm not on anybody's side. I just call it as I see it. Probably, Platyna sees me on the TMWC's side, and the TMWC (and their supporters) see me on Platyna's side, which is a good indication that I am neutral regarding the individual dispositions involved. If it could be said that I'm on anyone's side, it would be what I consider to be truth, fairness, and democratic community involvement.

Untitled.png (62.3 KiB) Viewed 35778 times

It appears you believe .Net to be the one true original TMW server and from that I assumed you intended to play on it (so you can understand my confusion).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ws_APXilE

Platyna, and Blackrazor I wish you luck with .Net

Would the sentiment not still apply?

[blackrazor]

I'm not on anybody's side. I just call it as I see it. Probably, Platyna sees me on the TMWC's side, and the TMWC (and their supporters) see me on Platyna's side, which is a good indication that I am neutral regarding the individual dispositions involved. If it could be said that I'm on anyone's side, it would be what I consider to be truth, fairness, and democratic community involvement.

Untitled.png

It appears you believe .Net to be the one true original TMW server and from that I assumed you intended to play on it (so you can understand my confusion).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ws_APXilE

Platyna, and Blackrazor I wish you luck with .Net

Would the sentiment not still apply?

The sentiment would apply to .org too, because a big part of the community is there.

Do I feel that Platyna's TMW represents the one and true? Yes. Do I feel that the player files were irresponsibly cloned and moved to a TMWC machine? Yes. Do I feel that the tradition of not kicking out senior staff, but allowing them to decide who stays and who goes, was broken by this move? Yes. Do I think that disguising a major regime change as a routine server move and bouncing around with secret hosts was not cool? Yes. Do I feel that Platyna alienated practically all the other senior staff that led to this problem? Yes. Do I feel that Platyna failed to exercise sufficient controls and formal rules to keep the community together, or at least to define the rules of an organized break-up? Yes. Do I feel that Platyna could at times be unduly harsh or absent? Yes.

Do you see how this works? I think both sides have a lot to answer for, which is why I was proposing a reset for the top-admin post, with community nominations and voting. Let the community reunite and decide. If the majority of the community backs the TMWC as they claim, and is probably true, then probably someone from their organization would win the vote anyways, so what do they have to worry? The upside is that putting it to a vote, if endorsed by both Platyna and the TMWC, would make them both a part of the process and respectful of the results, so the community would be re-united. Then, if people still have a problem after the reunification, they can gracefully leave, as has been TMW tradition. But tearing the traditions and the community apart is just not the right way to do this, in my opinion.

[Len]

The upside is that putting it to a vote, if endorsed by both Platyna and the TMWC, would make them both a part of the process and respectful of the results, so the community would be re-united. Then, if people still have a problem after the reunification, they can gracefully leave, as has been TMW tradition. But tearing the traditions and the community apart is just not the right way to do this, in my opinion.

Good luck with that, you have an uphill battle ahead of you.

[Platyna]

Let's be honest, I don't see any chance that either side is going to see eye to eye. Nothing is going to be resolved here, for better or worse this is the new norm. Platyna, and Blackrazor I wish you luck with .Net, you have an uphill battle ahead of you.

Oh we are lucky. In less than a month we got three great people as content developers, and several others who are occasionaly helping. These great people are in progress of preparing three new maps, one new monster is almost ready, not to mention several quests and items that will be up maybe even this weekend!

What is also interesting - these people refuse to get any powers or priviledges, most of them even refused to accept forum titles. It reminds me old time TMW when we had developers not power hungry kids. We also have Wiki admin, and co-server admin and a devoted GM and Facebook fanpage leader.

I would like to thank those people for their courage and good heart.

We don't need o11c and his "updates"!

Regards.

[prsm]

And that "POP" you just heard, was the last bit of dignity Platyna had, self imploding.

[Platyna]

Actually my dignity and honour is not in danger. Anyway if mine would ex or implode with a "pop" the dignity of "TMWC" exploded long time ago and it looked like that:


Regards.

[Len]

Platyna If you really want to see those you say wronged you punished, then you're really need to make .Net ungodly better than .org. That means advertising to not just .Org (in off topic please), but people who haven't even heard of TMW (with some real numbers people might migrate back). You said you put money into the game, why not go a step further and hire a few people from a game programmer and pixel art forum? I mean kick the Chocolate Cupcake out of .org!

[Platyna]

I decided to bring up the original server not to fight with TMWC but for players to be safe and happy, as I believe that people who are capable of doing horrible things mentioned above are unable to manage anything at all. So I am afraid that their management would be the end of TMW at all. And I have spent too much time for TMW to just let be destroyed.

As I said at several occasions - power hungry people without morals and decency cannot be project admins.

Today we had 11 players online. More will come when we will implement new content we are working on.

Regards.

[Rill]

What I don't like about all of this, is that to some people the TMWC look like bad people because of this.
I can tell you guys that they are very nice people.

... this is not about bad or good.... don't try to make it personal by pasting a bad or good label on it.

Cassy, please know that you have every right to state your opinion of the character of TMWC.

[Len]

as I believe that people who are capable of doing horrible things mentioned above

Is that directed at me? Because I hardly see how offering a better product and growing your brand, to crush your competition is such a horrible thing (the crushing part maybe ). It would be better and more productive than whatever is going on here, channel your energy into your server...and you are correct I'm not the best leader, but it has more to do with me being aloof (that's why I live on the forums and not IRC) and an inconstant work ethic, than me being a tyrant.

I'm also confused, what Is your ideal outcome or what is it that you expect to come of this? I assure you we all go a little crazy on here from time to time (particularly those of us who put time into this game). I find it near impossible to believe the the server move was done to harm the community or harm you.

[Platyna]

No Len, I am still referring to that pseudooorganization created to satisfy certain persons power cravings. ;-)

Regards.

[Cassy]

What I don't like about all of this, is that to some people the TMWC look like bad people because of this.
I can tell you guys that they are very nice people.

... this is not about bad or good.... don't try to make it personal by pasting a bad or good label on it.

Cassy, please know that you have every right to state your opinion of the character of TMWC.

Oh, it seems I didn't get that part before.
Well, I actually still don't get it completely.
Why is it bad when I mention that the TMWC members are nice people and not bad (as it looks like to some people since the server move issue)?
Sorry, I don't understand.