Options that shouldn't be

Development discussions for TMW's official client, alternative clients and client adaptations.


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jak1
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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by jak1 »

jesusalva wrote: 23 May 2020, 21:13
jak1 wrote: 23 May 2020, 05:25
Hocus Pocus Fidibus wrote: 22 May 2020, 08:18 A shortcut to switch between different configurations (can be setup by user) would be nice.
E.g.:
Config 1: No icons, no healthbars, no floating names ... nothing.
Config 2: attack range indicator for players and monsters, mapview ultra 2, healthbars
Config 3: Guild Icons and Names

An additional key to temporary enable one of the configs while a key is pressed would be useful, too: Sitting in town with config 1. Want to know the names of the players around you and to which party they belong etc.: as long as you keep "default-config" pressed: config 3 is shown.
hmm, sounds nice :D
MORE SHORTCUTS D: D: D: D: D:

Personally, I would have these cool settings as things which you could drag'n'drop to the shortcut window >__>
(Actually I would even have the emotes drag'n'drop to the shortcut window, and use Alt modifier to change pages, but whatever xD jak1 is the one coding stuff, so he is the one with "decisory" power over it)
u know, some keybindings get removed (most unused / not 'noob' friendly)
2 new keys get bound, and i remove some defaults, to ->not be disapointed as noob if u hit "H" (hides the whole GUI)
u can rebind em, if u need em, but it shouldnt be a default on a single key, without modifier :roll:

shift+Functionkeys (shortcut tabs)

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by jesusalva »

jak1 wrote: 24 May 2020, 08:06
jesusalva wrote: 23 May 2020, 21:13
jak1 wrote: 23 May 2020, 05:25

hmm, sounds nice :D
MORE SHORTCUTS D: D: D: D: D:

Personally, I would have these cool settings as things which you could drag'n'drop to the shortcut window >__>
(Actually I would even have the emotes drag'n'drop to the shortcut window, and use Alt modifier to change pages, but whatever xD jak1 is the one coding stuff, so he is the one with "decisory" power over it)
u know, some keybindings get removed (most unused / not 'noob' friendly)
2 new keys get bound, and i remove some defaults, to ->not be disapointed as noob if u hit "H" (hides the whole GUI)
u can rebind em, if u need em, but it shouldnt be a default on a single key, without modifier :roll:

shift+Functionkeys (shortcut tabs)
For the record, I was using KVirc, which hides the whole GUI if you press "Ctrl+H", iirc.
Knowing that users 9/10 times are using this by accident, they actually show up a confirmation box:
Pressing `Ctrl+H` will hide the whole GUI of KVIrc. You can press `Ctrl+H` again, at any time, to unhide.
Are you sure you want to do this?

[ ] Don't ask again
[Y]/[N]

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by jak1 »

hmm nice idea :D

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EJlol
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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by EJlol »

Another small UI note: When possible, try not to use yes/no (or ok/cancel) in dialogs, as many people don't even read the question properly and just answer quickly what they think has been asked... It's better to use hide/'keep visible' as buttons.

Some more reading about it:
https://uxplanet.org/primary-secondary- ... 6df9b36150
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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by Ledmitz »

I find my badge a bit annoying now, but it's my fault for making it and enabling all badges and many options are available for a player in settings, though options are a bit confusing. I made the post from a quest writers perspective. Many things that are possible with hercules and even eathena become irrelevant when the client is able to bypass things that no player needs to. My #1 beef is with map layering because it makes it harder to hide things and even players and let's not forget the art is there to be seen, not ignored. The other things I mentioned were to do with already existing spells like inwilt becoming useless because of client options.

Other options are great to enable and disable based on preferences, but some things should be hard coded for most players, but I'm not the one doing it. It's just a suggestion, but one I think makes a lot of sense, but I'll be playing anyway, regardless of my opinion.

The rest of the stuff, like social tab are handy to use, but if one watches the game closely, you can tell who is getting the most damaged without a social tab. I would love it in a mech game or any simulator to see who is where and what is coming like a radar or basic blackbox info, etc, but that type of technology isn't in TMW, so why have a screen emulating a gauge from a more sim-like game? It's just a logical thing to me, but if players use it a lot and love it or if client dev/s want it in, then so be it, but I think logic goes a long way. I just don't see why Ledmitz wearing armour is able to know info on all characters around him, even though he casts no spell to find that out. If it can't be explained in the game, it seems cheap. We don't see these things in commercial games for a reason. Even the online list is a bit much. The #world channel in ML makes it irrelevant to a point. It's not my business that jak1 is online. If he wants to respond to me in a world chat or whisper, that's his business. IDT I should be able to hound him all day, every time I see him online, but the client allows me to do that (though it also allows jak1 to ignore me). No big deal and people don't like change and I use the online list a lot myself, but I know too much about who is on and not even as a regular player. If a player could hide from the list or chose to be seen... that is another ballgame. Just my privacy spiel on that.

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by Clort »

I think the goal of simplified options isn't a bad one; a new, one-page "most common settings" tab could be default for manaplus, with a checkbox to enable the current advanced settings.

I'm against Ledmit's suggestion to remove client-side settings/options for reasons Hello gave. I do agree with incremental client improvements to make the game easier to get into, and a 'basic settings' page is probably the way to go for that.

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by feff »

Good ideas, with a few alarm bells that went off for me.

A player should be forced

Like that one. Unless there's a pressing reason for it, don't force the players to do what they don't want to do.

So that means I don't even have to pay attention anymore and just hit F randomly and I'll have an edge. I have more of an edge if I use the social tab to see who is most damaged, which again seems a bit of a cheat. A player should be forced to deduce what attributes other players have or at least talk to them to know.

I can see that only ending in frustration, anger and sadness, for instance. I realize that you want to motivate people to be social, which is a great idea. Imagine if you were in a combat situation though, and your party was losing health around you. "A player should be forced" so you can't automatically heal the most damaged, "A player should be forced" so you can't get your social tab to open up automatically, and "A player should be forced" so you have to manually look through your list of party members one by one, trying to find who's at the lowest health. During this process, the party member you were looking for dies, and everyone demands to know why you didn't heal them. They're angry with you, you're angry with yourself, you don't want to play anymore, and nobody has any fun.

A better way to do it would be to give people rewards for knowing each other. So maybe a buff to healing if you're party members for a long time, or if you've fought together for a lot of monsters. Maybe some sort of reward for introducing new members to your party, so you'd have to balance the cost/benefit of staying together with old ones? There's always the old "give the newbie a portion of the experience" trick...

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by Livio »

feff wrote: 08 May 2021, 09:39

Good ideas, with a few alarm bells that went off for me.

A player should be forced

Like that one. Unless there's a pressing reason for it, don't force the players to do what they don't want to do.

Ledmitz is not a professional developer and, in my opinion, used the word "force the player" to say that ManaPlus client should have some option already enabled because telling people from all over the world to configure manually their client is a simple task that takes lot of time and sometimes fails too.
He should have said "server should enable some client settings by default to improve gameplay experience" instead of "forcing players".
Not many people around the world know that they should't use the "F" word here!

feff wrote: 08 May 2021, 09:39

So that means I don't even have to pay attention anymore and just hit F randomly and I'll have an edge. I have more of an edge if I use the social tab to see who is most damaged, which again seems a bit of a cheat. A player should be forced to deduce what attributes other players have or at least talk to them to know.

Many, many years ago dev community refused to implement blood and similar graphic violence in TMW. So without seeing how much blood they spill you have to ask people how do they feel and if they are messed badly than others. This can be quite time consuming and can lead to a massacre since a lot of monsters in game aren't polite as our lovely forum community and they will never give you the time to chat. Same thing for asking them how much maximum HP you have in order to understand who lost many HP proportionally to that parameter.

feff wrote: 08 May 2021, 09:39

I can see that only ending in frustration, anger and sadness, for instance.

TMW is not 100% stable, fair and playable for everyone but is up and running as a recognized SPI project since around 2005.
And most importantly is a game: I've never seen someone forcing himself/herself/theyself/whatever to play a frustrating and sad game but Internet is huge who knows...
And it's free software! So you can fork TMW and build your own version of angerless TMW by yourself.

feff wrote: 08 May 2021, 09:39

I realize that you want to motivate people to be social, which is a great idea. Imagine if you were in a combat situation though, and your party was losing health around you. "A player should be forced" so you can't automatically heal the most damaged, "A player should be forced" so you can't get your social tab to open up automatically, and "A player should be forced" so you have to manually look through your list of party members one by one, trying to find who's at the lowest health.

Social window, not tab, doesn't open automatically (F11 key as enforced by default settings).
You have to select the right tab inside the social window otherwise you may get other informations like NAV waypoints instead.
Despite not being aware of this little detail I'm sure that you played enough the game and that your forum thread count doesn't matter at all. Not many players wants to have a forum account too, maybe they found the TMW forum too not social enough.

feff wrote: 08 May 2021, 09:39

During this process, the party member you were looking for dies, and everyone demands to know why you didn't heal them.

I rarely see players relying only on healers and I've never seen nobody asking them about why they didn't heal them.
Mages (or better "mana users") aren't forced to heal players. The game give them some exp for that but they don't have to heal if they don't want to do it. Summoners for example are inhibited by magic cooldown time that prevents them to cast any spell for a quite long amount of time. It's not nice to complain with them about missed healing but nobody did so far.

feff wrote: 08 May 2021, 09:39

They're angry with you, you're angry with yourself, you don't want to play anymore, and nobody has any fun.

It happened a lot of times for years that people got angry with me and myself. They stopped playing with me because they got no fun anymore. I've contributed to halve online players in less than six months since my first registration. I had to change class then.

feff wrote: 08 May 2021, 09:39

A better way to do it would be to give people rewards for knowing each other.
So maybe a buff to healing if you're party members for a long time, or if you've fought together for a lot of monsters. Maybe some sort of reward for introducing new members to your party, so you'd have to balance the cost/benefit of staying together with old ones? There's always the old "give the newbie a portion of the experience" trick...

There's an exp bonus already to defeat a monster together. However party exp sharing, as you surely know, is limited to levels above or below 10 from average or so. Some players may even leave parties to join other parties with members close to their level.
N00bs trick? Game has to be fair enough for everyone. Newbies that didn't or can't benefit from such trick will open a new account here to complain. That's not good.

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by feff »

Livio wrote: 08 May 2021, 19:03

Not many people around the world know that they should't use the "F" word here!

Haha, well I didn't mean to make it look like I was upset at the wording. I'm just not a big fan of the idea of adding restrictions to make the game funner. It can lead to very unfun situations, so I only advocate restrictions when necessary to protect the server, or the other players.

Many, many years ago dev community refused to implement blood and similar graphic violence in TMW.

Yeah, there should be an animation of characters getting hit, instead of just an abstract damage number rising above them. Maybe even stunlocking.

you have to ask people how do they feel and if they are messed badly than others.

Wait, so the proposal is not only to stop players from healing the most injured party member, but the Social tab doesn't even show how injured they are? That would make healers completely useless in the middle of a battle!

I've never seen someone forcing himself/herself/theyself/whatever to play a frustrating and sad game

You've never seen anyone playing Tetris?

But no I get you. I would rather that people play less though, than get them to play more by making them frustrated and upset.

And it's free software! So you can fork TMW and build your own version of angerless TMW by yourself.

Well, the client is written in C++, with so much abstraction. Open source doesn't help if the source is already incomprehensible!

And I'm not rich enough to afford a server, so...

Despite not being aware of this little detail I'm sure that you played enough the game and that your forum thread count doesn't matter at all.

Oh I've played about a month, not much time honestly. I didn't want to specify switching to the right tab, because I thought it was already pretty sad to expect a healer to do all that and still be effective.

I rarely see players relying only on healers and I've never seen nobody asking them about why they didn't heal them.

Really? Someone was asking just the other day if I could fight some higher exp. mobs, so they could practice healing. If I died in the middle of that with no heals going on I'd definitely be asking them what was going on.

Mages (or better "mana users") aren't forced to heal players. The game give them some exp for that but they don't have to heal if they don't want to do it.

Yes, and that's why you feel like they're total jerks if they say they're going to heal you and then you just kind of die like a lil Female dog, wolf, fox or otter while they laugh at you from their computer desk. If they were forced to heal players that'd be kind of dumb, since there's no chance for them to choose to do so then, and prove they're different than some joker only pretending to help.

Summoners for example are inhibited by magic cooldown time that prevents them to cast any spell for a quite long amount of time. It's not nice to complain with them about missed healing but nobody did so far.

I didn't even know summoners existed. All I ever saw was the magic system where you have to type a chat message, and then it heals someone, and consumes one of those crystal thingies. No cooldown that I know of, as long as your extremely difficult to farm crystals hold out.

There's an exp bonus already to defeat a monster together. However party exp sharing, as you surely know, is limited to levels above or below 10 from average or so.

I hadn't known, no. If I were doing it, I'd have exp. sharing depend on how much damage you did, so lower levels could get a little bit by doing a teeny bit of damage, but you need to be of similar levels if you want to get a good portion of it.

That wouldn't really help healers and support classes, but they would get exp. for using their abilities.

Experience points are kind of stupid, anyway. I'd just have doing damage make your Str go up, and casting spells raise your Int over time and stuff. If I were the grand high decision maker of a game like this, that is.

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by jesusalva »

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Experience points are kind of stupid, anyway. I'd just have doing damage make your Str go up, and casting spells raise your Int over time and stuff. If I were the grand high decision maker of a game like this, that is.

And a coder; Don't forget the coder D: That's the most important part :lol:

(In Evol2, could be done for Str and Int if statpoint table gets disabled – But luk? Vit? Etc? Sounded better in the paper than in practice iirc)

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by Livio »

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Yeah, there should be an animation of characters getting hit, instead of just an abstract damage number rising above them. Maybe even stunlocking.

Some n00bs said that they wont play this game because "it's pixelated".
I'm happy to hear complains about lack of animations instead. The particle generator luckily wasn't even noticed.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

you have to ask people how do they feel and if they are messed badly than others.

Wait, so the proposal is not only to stop players from healing the most injured party member, but the Social tab doesn't even show how injured they are? That would make healers completely useless in the middle of a battle!

I've never seen someone forcing himself/herself/theyself/whatever to play a frustrating and sad game

You've never seen anyone playing Tetris?

I've never seen people bothering the Russian company who owns the right on that game name about their lack of animations. And complaining that the game is too hard, sad and frustrating.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

But no I get you. I would rather that people play less though, than get them to play more by making them frustrated and upset.

And it's free software! So you can fork TMW and build your own version of angerless TMW by yourself.

Well, the client is written in C++, with so much abstraction. Open source doesn't help if the source is already incomprehensible!

So does complaining?

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

And I'm not rich enough to afford a server, so...

...I'm sure nobody gives a damn: that's not a problem related to the game.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Really? Someone was asking just the other day if I could fight some higher exp. mobs, so they could practice healing. If I died in the middle of that with no heals going on I'd definitely be asking them what was going on.

It doesn't happen to see people practicing life magic everyday.
If they were practicing how could you expect them to be good at it? This is a game not Ramsey's kitchen.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Yes, and that's why you feel like they're total jerks if they say they're going to heal you and then you just kind of die like a lil Female dog, wolf, fox or otter while they laugh at you from their computer desk. If they were forced to heal players that'd be kind of dumb, since there's no chance for them to choose to do so then, and prove they're different than some joker only pretending to help.

I can't blame the game if I play with the wrong ones. I just ignore them. You can even "nuke" people too.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

I didn't even know summoners existed. All I ever saw was the magic system where you have to type a chat message, and then it heals someone, and consumes one of those crystal thingies. No cooldown that I know of, as long as your extremely difficult to farm crystals hold out.

If you were focused more on getting along with people more than complaining you will probably have learned that there's a way easier and faster method to cast spells.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Experience points are kind of stupid, anyway. I'd just have doing damage make your Str go up, and casting spells raise your Int over time and stuff. If I were the grand high decision maker of a game like this, that is.

Decision making here isn't something left to random people that joins a forum and browse threads just to complain and find everything changed to their taste. This game has a lot of features that sucks and that are waiting for improvements since years. People who contributed to the game did that in their spare time as best as they can.

That's gone far enough to me: this thread is evolving into a useless off-topic drama.

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by feff »

Livio wrote: 11 May 2021, 19:30

I'm happy to hear complains about lack of animations instead. The particle generator luckily wasn't even noticed.

Oh I love the particle generator actually. Not too many particles spamming everywhere. Definitely could use showers of blood particles.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

I've never seen people bothering the Russian company who owns the right on that game name about their lack of animations. And complaining that the game is too hard, sad and frustrating.

Wow, I must be the first then!

Tetris is a perfect nihilist nightmare. ♥

So does complaining?

It certainly dampens people's enthusiasm when they say that you can do something just because it's free software, without any knowledge of your skill or ability.

...I'm sure nobody gives a damn: that's not a problem related to the game.

Oh I'm not expecting anyone to make TMW some kind of serverless peer to peer thing. It's just misleading to say that I can build my own version of angerless TMW, because part of the game is the software, and part of it is the people playing with you, so if I can't afford a server, then people can't play with me.

I definitely plan to eventually get the server running locally, so I can test stuff before doing it in the actual game.

It doesn't happen to see people practicing life magic everyday.

Magic kind of needs some adjustment in general. Some veteran players tell me you shouldn't even touch it until like level 90, when you can finally make a Mage build. I'd like to see more "life magic" in a weak but useful amount at lower levels. Maybe even a spell that can only heal other players. Just to offer some reward for people who can work together.

If they were practicing how could you expect them to be good at it? This is a game not Ramsey's kitchen.

I can see when a spell is being cast on me. So if none was, because they were futzing with the UI trying to find my HP, I'd ask why they weren't practicing. And they'd tell me because it's a complicated UI that makes spellcasting in combat useless, and then we'd both decide to forget about the magic system and go use potions instead.

But I'm pretty easygoing. I know other people could get pretty upset about it, in the heat of the moment.

I can't blame the game if I play with the wrong ones. I just ignore them. You can even "nuke" people too.

Oh sure, but it would be nice if it were easier to help someone so they didn't want to nuke us. Just to set us apart from the people who dgaf.

I mean, it is nice, because it is easier. I disagree with making it harder, as was proposed.

If you were focused more on getting along with people more than complaining you will probably have learned that there's a way easier and faster method to cast spells.

...didn't you just say summoners had to cast slower than other users?

Anyway yes, my snarking about the tedious farming is only if your Magic skill level is less than 2. I know Eleanore lets you use a spell to allow for much more commonly found ingredients.

Decision making here isn't something left to random people that joins a forum and browse threads just to complain and find everything changed to their taste. This game has a lot of features that sucks and that are waiting for improvements since years. People who contributed to the game did that in their spare time as best as they can.

People who contributed to the game like experience levels. If I submitted a patch that removed exp and added training-based increases in skills, nobody would want it. If my ideas are so incredibly worth patching, I'd like to convince people of that before going through the trouble. If I can't do that, then I don't want to force my personal preference on people who don't want it.

Doesn't mean I won't try to make a convincing argument though. Maybe in a different thread where it was actually topical.

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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by Livio »

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 22:09

Oh I love the particle generator actually. Not too many particles spamming everywhere. Definitely could use showers of blood particles.

That would be cool when we spawn lotta shrooms in crypt or xmas chamber a damn bloody massacre. On my lil PC probably will end in lag but it must be funny. But I guess that's not possible with a custom host update...

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Wow, I must be the first then!

Tetris is a perfect nihilist nightmare. ♥

Hmm... I should offer you some runs in Candor or Krukan here then. 5000 BP and you can get a nice hat!
No need to swear in Russian.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

It certainly dampens people's enthusiasm when they say that you can do something just because it's free software, without any knowledge of your skill or ability.

Before contributing to rEvolt quests they warned me that TMW will never be like RPG Maker. So read the manual and ask on IRC if you aren't able to go on with development. I kinda dislike that but I see no other way to move on.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Oh I'm not expecting anyone to make TMW some kind of serverless peer to peer thing. It's just misleading to say that I can build my own version of angerless TMW, because part of the game is the software, and part of it is the people playing with you, so if I can't afford a server, then people can't play with me.

Misleading or not, it's possible. No copyright infringement or other things that ruins the fun (except the lack of skills in development). Yeah, I understand what you mean but I'm sure that everyone lived such hardships before making TMW up and running like it is today, with its community. Well, more than a decade passed since they finally gave up self-hosting.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

I definitely plan to eventually get the server running locally, so I can test stuff before doing it in the actual game.

That's suggested mainly for development. I don't know what system you have but it should run nicely even in a LXC container. But if you want to try out different ways of playing instead, there's the Legacy test server in case you missed it.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Magic kind of needs some adjustment in general. Some veteran players tell me you shouldn't even touch it until like level 90, when you can finally make a Mage build. I'd like to see more "life magic" in a weak but useful amount at lower levels. Maybe even a spell that can only heal other players. Just to offer some reward for people who can work together.

Well, low level mages aren't that good until around level 70 or when you can afford to raise INT a lot. But healing is fine even at low levels (I did at level 40 as an archer). Well, using only #lum and consuming lifestones is quite a pain until you finally complete Eleanore's quest and then you can make those on your own. Once you learn #inma you can heal immediately any player up to 800HP but remember that the more you are hurt, the less you can heal.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

I can see when a spell is being cast on me. So if none was, because they were futzing with the UI trying to find my HP, I'd ask why they weren't practicing. And they'd tell me because it's a complicated UI that makes spellcasting in combat useless, and then we'd both decide to forget about the magic system and go use potions instead.

But I'm pretty easygoing. I know other people could get pretty upset about it, in the heat of the moment.

Yeah the GUI is quite hard to use when you are a newbie. It has some latency too so you better not rely too much on it especially if you are healing who is not in your party. Usually we use the :alt-1: emoticon to quickly tell others that we need healing immediately. Such a kind of unofficial signalling.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Oh sure, but it would be nice if it were easier to help someone so they didn't want to nuke us. Just to set us apart from the people who dgaf.

I mean, it is nice, because it is easier. I disagree with making it harder, as was proposed.

Once you get used to this imperfect game you feel that need less. "Nuke" is a command to make someone not appear on your client forbidding him/her/they/whatever to chat with you.
Always be patient online and with defective games like this one...

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

...didn't you just say summoners had to cast slower than other users?

No: if you summon (or use some other spells) there's a quite long cooldown time. But if you don't cast any spell except the healing ones you are still able to heal without suffering from it actually behaving like a healer. I do that even with my level 100 banshee archer but since I have very low INT I use mana potions in case I have to replace someone that can heal. But I don't summon or protect because with low INT and without Astral Soul focus I'm not good at it.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

Anyway yes, my snarking about the tedious farming is only if your Magic skill level is less than 2. I know Eleanore lets you use a spell to allow for much more commonly found ingredients.

You have to complete the whole quest for that.

feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

People who contributed to the game like experience levels. If I submitted a patch that removed exp and added training-based increases in skills, nobody would want it. If my ideas are so incredibly worth patching, I'd like to convince people of that before going through the trouble. If I can't do that, then I don't want to force my personal preference on people who don't want it.

Doesn't mean I won't try to make a convincing argument though. Maybe in a different thread where it was actually topical.

I don't like to be convinced nor to convince. I usually prefer to ask a question instead of express an opinion. I prefer to ask if they agree with me more than telling them that I don't like some things or that what they do looks stupid to me.
Just like when I go to my customers when I have to provide them tech assistance: I don't tell them that their systems sucks I ask them what they think about changing those or why they are keeping those like they are now.

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jesusalva
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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by jesusalva »

Livio wrote: 12 May 2021, 22:12
feff wrote: 11 May 2021, 04:53

It certainly dampens people's enthusiasm when they say that you can do something just because it's free software, without any knowledge of your skill or ability.

Before contributing to rEvolt quests they warned me that TMW will never be like RPG Maker. So read the manual and ask on IRC if you aren't able to go on with development. I kinda dislike that but I see no other way to move on.

All TMW Devs are volunteers: We have no paid staff.

Most devs will be OK with teaching you the basics to start developing, but babysitting (e.g. asking for stuff which is on manual, not trying, et cetera) or doing stuff for the others is a no-no.

Also, when you hear something along the lines "DIY" (Do it yourself), it is not (only?) because we think you might fall in any of the above no-no categories, it is the maximum rule for developers and we tell each other "DIY" quite often as well.

By the way: If you wanted a dev to make something, you would need to convince them that this something is worth their personal and often limited time :)
And that is usually harder than doing it yourself :lol:

After all, our devs (whole staff, actually) are volunteering their free time, which could be spent on anything in the face of the universe, to the game. Time, therefore, is a premium.
So we do tend to limit our time used answering questions and avoid stuff which could demand a huge amount of such valuable asset, specially if the return doesn't cover it.

I don't like to be convinced nor to convince. I usually prefer to ask a question instead of express an opinion. I prefer to ask if they agree with me more than telling them that I don't like some things or that what they do looks stupid to me.

...And naturally, if we limit our time for Q&A, we will limit even more the time spent replying to complains :lol:
Livio gave you a tip useful not only here but for life, keep it.

Jesusalva (aka. Jesusaves)
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Former system administrator, project lead and developer.
Do not contact me regarding The Mana World inquiries.

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Ledmitz
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Re: Options that shouldn't be

Post by Ledmitz »

"A player should be forced need to deduce what attributes other players have" Is that better? I think my wording was in question more than the message. The point I was trying to make is that it takes a better player to cycle targets and heal based on observation and interaction, rather than having a cheat key that automatically finds the most injured player. This F key(where mine is mapped to (another miscommunication)) didn't always exist and from what I can tell, no longer functions correctly since not all damage and heals are shown in the client's social window. If you have a key like this, you make it less of a game. The challenge is in the operation. This isn't a total strategy game, but is in part. Hand-eye coordination should still matter to some degree.
So now I have 2 reasons to get rid of it:

  1. It's a strategy cheat
  2. It doesn't work right anyway

Ledmitz = Ardits = KillerBee = Mystic = Mystical_Servant = Tipsy Skeleton = BoomBoom = Cloak

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