Opinions/Suggestions about the new skills.

[mistergrey]

I fully realize that the skills are a very new (or very old, kinda) addition, so obviously some bugs and issues are to be expected, and this is in no way a thread to Female dog, wolf, fox or otter about the people developing this content for us. Some people didn't appreciate commenting or opinions in the other skill related thread, so this way, one's for discussing what the skills do and how to get them, and this one is for player feedback.

I've yet to obtain/try out all the skills myself, but I've tried out the Astral and Mallard's Eye skills. From what I've seen and heard though, it seems a little unbalanced in how the generic classes benefit from them.

The warrior seems to be roughly the same, though maybe the speed or even mallard's skill somehow affect this (anyone know if mallard's eye has any practical use for non-archers?). Damage and base stats seem unchanged in general.

The archer really gains from the skill addition. On top of still doing awesome damage, the archer's skill increases your range, making you a killing machine, and possibly even increases your accuracy. Again base stats seem unchanged.

The mage seems to lose out with this, at least at first. At level 85 with 99 int, my base magic damage was somewhere around 500+, and after the skill addition was reduced to about 250-300. Seems that at Astral lvl 9 magic attack can surpass what it was previously by a good amount, which is a nice incentive now, despite the extra work (didn't seem so great when the item bonuses were all screwed up lol).

Positive feedback: for someone like me, who puts all my points in dex and agi when I stat to archer, the Mallard's eye skill just makes it even better. Seems maybe the magic damage reduction could be good in that low level mages won't instantly win every pvp fight now against high level players.

Negative feedback: I love playing as a mage, but it's sort of a downer having to get Astral level 9 just to be at the point I was at 2 weeks ago lol.

[MrDemonWolf]

Well (IMO) i like what i see from the skills so far like you haven't gotten all of them yet and don't know what all of their benefits are. So far though other then the fact that the warrior (IMHO) doesn't have any specific class related skill yet I think the only ones who complain is the mages. now I know I'm gonna hurt someones feelings for this but the astral soul skill is fair in my opinion actually (IMHO) the attack needs to be lowered a little more for the mages that way a level 20-30 mage if not lower cant come up and kill a level 70 or higher warrior. In all honesty here the only thing I can see the that mages are complaining about is the fact they actually have to do a little bit of work (place tear here) which again (IMO) mages don't have to do enough work. But not getting into all that right now. Anyways so far I like the skills maybe (IMO) lower the damage a little more at the start for the mages that way the end result is still the same as it was before, and give the warriors a little love here since they have no class specific skills unlike the other two. Other then that I'm fine with what we got so far and can't wait to see how this works out down the road. In all honesty if used right this can be used as a great way to rebalance PVP and the three classes we have right now in general also its just nice to have some new additions to the game itself so nice work so far Dev team I think this was a good move on their part can't wait to see what the next step is.

[mistergrey]

Hey, that's cool, a bit of a debate never killed anyone. A lot of my negative opinions on the skills are resolved now, and since the item bonuses are fixed being a mage isn't a waste of time anymore. Still, a few things you said caught my eye.

"(IMHO) the attack needs to be lowered a little more for the mages that way a level 20-30 mage if not lower cant come up and kill a level 70 or higher warrior" - You realize that at 99 int at my level, my max m attack was around 300? If that kills a 70+ warrior before they can kill the low level mage with no vitality casting it, it's a problem with the warrior, not magic attack lol. I know magic damage is dealt regardless of defense, but that doesn't mean magic attack needs to be lowered further to be fair - if anything it means if a warrior wants to go pvp with mages, they should put some points in Int, and have someone asorm them first .

"the only thing I can see the that mages are complaining about is the fact they actually have to do a little bit of work (place tear here) which again (IMO) mages don't have to do enough work."

How do mages not have to do enough work? with the magic attack reduction, a mage will do 300 damage before skills, after doing the annoying magic quests I might add, while an archer at 99 dex can do 250+ dmg, and even over 300 with the forest armor's dex bonus. As is, mages have to do the quests for spells, and get astral to level 9 just to do decent damage at a higher level.

Don't get me wrong, I think the astral skill ends up being pretty sweet for mages in the end, just don't see how mages don't do enough work, when warriors and archers do okay damage without being obligated to do a set of quests to be able to. I'd love to hear why you think that though .

I have to agree about warriors though - it'd be nice to see some skill or equipment that will favor them more, since most of the new items have targeted archers or mages lately. I only disagree with reducing magic further, because at level 20-30, a mage can't even have 99 int, therefore their magic attack is probably something pitiful to begin with lol.

[MrDemonWolf]

"You realize that at 99 int at my level, my max m attack was around 300? If that kills a 70+ warrior before they can kill the low level mage with no vitality casting it, it's a problem with the warrior, not magic attack lol. I know magic damage is dealt regardless of defense, but that doesn't mean magic attack needs to be lowered further to be fair - if anything it means if a warrior wants to go pvp with mages, they should put some points in Int, and have someone asorm them first ."

I agree with you here I think that was a little bit of venting on my part/ the fact that I'm a little bit biased when it comes to mages over warrior love both classes just like warrior better. anyways though I do agree with you about the magic doesn't need to be lowered it would seem like it would be more of the warriors problem (also mine:lol:). But I do think there needs to be a way the warrior could protect himself better against the mages doesn't have to be as strong as asorm but something they could do or take/use without having some other mage stand outside asorming every warrior before they go into a PVP area .

"How do mages not have to do enough work? with the magic attack reduction, a mage will do 300 damage before skills, after doing the annoying magic quests I might add, while an archer at 99 dex can do 250+ dmg, and even over 300 with the forest armor's dex bonus. As is, mages have to do the quests for spells, and get astral to level 9 just to do decent damage at a higher level.

Don't get me wrong, I think the astral skill ends up being pretty sweet for mages in the end, just don't see how mages don't do enough work, when warriors and archers do okay damage without being obligated to do a set of quests to be able to. I'd love to hear why you think that though ."

Sorry when I said that should have when into a little bit of depth on it. I think the ones that are complaining about the new astral skill are lower level mages mostly because there attack isn't as strong as it used to be and it makes them a little mad. So therefore they complain about the extra workload and say it isn't fair to them is what I have heard a few of them say. Now my take on the they don't have enough work to do is that once they get the skill up t where it needs to be besides the quests which most of the ones I have done are farily easy except for a few of aludsbels. (sorry I know I spelled it wrong) I was also looking at the fact that once a younger mage gets on there feet and gets an ok supply of magical supply's they are pretty much set after that (IMO) I was also going from the standpoint that most of their gear is easily obtainable at earlier levels and much easier to get also. But I do agree that them being the only class that has to level up a skill to get a higher or the same attack they had back (whatever way you look at it)a little unfair to them maybe but it might actually be a good idea to do the same for the warrior/archer as well and make it that they have to level a class specific skill for themselves that could at the highest level make their attack stronger then what it was maybe get them out of the 250-300 attack damage range . Hopefully I got my point across a little better now (should have went into a little more detail earlier sorry). I like some of your points though they make a lot of sense and it always good to hear from both side not just one as I said earlier think I was mostly venting earlier more then I was giving an actual opinion.

[Deimheucadh]

i am archer 82lvl with hawks eye skill 9. thats nice. i tried speed skill 9, but it seems less useful.

[Drazerk]

"(IMHO) the attack needs to be lowered a little more for the mages that way a level 20-30 mage if not lower cant come up and kill a level 70 or higher warrior" - You realize that at 99 int at my level, my max m attack was around 300? If that kills a 70+ warrior before they can kill the low level mage with no vitality casting it, it's a problem with the warrior, not magic attack lol. I know magic damage is dealt regardless of defense, but that doesn't mean magic attack needs to be lowered further to be fair - if anything it means if a warrior wants to go pvp with mages, they should put some points in Int, and have someone asorm them first .

Warriros shouldn't need to have yet another stat to pour points into in order to compete with the other classes imo. They already need more stats compared to archers/mages as it is.

I'd rather have another stat give a small magic def. bonus similar to how dex gives a small damage boost to melee after 5(?) points have been invested in it.

[MrDemonWolf]

"Warriros shouldn't need to have yet another stat to pour points into in order to compete with the other classes imo. They already need more stats compared to archers/mages as it is.

I'd rather have another stat give a small magic def. bonus similar to how dex gives a small damage boost to melee after 5(?) points have been invested in it."

Instead of another stat which would have to be incorporated for all classes that could be an idea for one of the warrior class specific skill one that as you level that skill your magic defense increases to a point that you can have 1 point in the int stat and still have an ok magic defense not gonna say how much if that would be incorporated I will let Dev's decide how much of an magic defense you could get from it. could possibly be useful to all classes not just warrior but I do think that it might be a start for the warrior skill line.

[mistergrey]

Hmm, a magic defense skill would be useful, but it would have to be limited, or else people would simply level that and take no damage from magic.

Also, it's not a matter of class competing - Mages simply need less stat points, because they have the handicap of not being able to wear decent armor without large magic penalties. Archers can wear better armor, but most will go without it and instead pick the forest armor or other bonus gear. Not to mention that the only place you need to worry about magic damage is in pvp, so I really don't think it's such a sacrifice to dump a few points to int if you're determined to fight some mages.

Despite my pro-mage opinion here though, I do agree more items with magic def (like the skull helm, but a bit more cost friendly lol) are needed to make pvp fair (and for when monsters that do magic damage come in).

[MrDemonWolf]

To get back on topic though here is what I'm seeing. We need warrior specific class skills since archers have mallards eye and mages have astral soul and since all classes are able to acquire those skills there needs to be a boost for all classes when you acquire it like say if a warrior had mallards eye then it helps there accuracy if it already does that then sorry didn't know haven't used it yet. Same could go for astral soul as I stated earlier maybe it could help in a warriors magic defense somewhat but make it to where that if a mage came along and there skill level was higher than the warriors their attack wouldn't be as affected as much as a mage that didn't have the skill as high as the warrior may have it. Example: mage has level 9 astral soul warrior has lvl 5 astral soul mages attack does maybe a little less than the norm say norm is 700 well they might do around 550-600 something like that. It would be weaker if the warriors astral soul level was equal to or higher then the mages astral soul level. Again say norm is 700 well mage whose astral soul skill level is not as high as the warrior has it so that mages attack may end up being 450-500 something along those lines though. Again this is just an example not meant to be exact. The biggest thing with the skills that were put into the game right now is that none of them maybe except for poison and speed help the warrior significantly not like astral soul or mallards eye help their respective classes. also the fact that again the warrior has no specific class related skill like the others do. Those are really my only complaints about the skills system those far. I would say that I have given my sugestions on where they might be able to take a few of the skills, but again I leave all that up to the Devs.