[GIT] Snowfield Minor Revamp - SnowTrees updates

[hal9000]

I've made some improvements to the SnowTrees used in Snowfield, Nivalis and other maps.

SnowPine:

- now the snow cover better fits TMW-pixelart style, (no more soft gradients);
- more defined outline;
- the shape now shares the same perspective correction made on the uncovered Pine;
- minor pixel-cleaning.

SnowOak:

original SnowOak was painted using a different snow cover compared to the SnowPine one. Although it has been included in TMW-data it hasn't been used so much because of it doesn't fit very well with other trees.

- now the snow cover shares the same snow-effect of the Snow-Pine;
- little adjustements to the horizontal size;
- color tuning for leaves and trunk;
- more defined outline.

SnowBareTree:

- more defined outline.





Adding the SnowOak to the tileset, it has been easy to revamp the boring SnowField map. The new tree with his brown trunk and different shape breaks the monotony of the Pine/SnowPine alternance.
Creating richer snowy maps should be a little bit easier in future.


SnowField Map, 019-1.tmw:

- SnowPines randomly replaced by SnowOaks;
- flat-looking stones now have shadows;
- a new version of the stone has been added;
- some trees (over layer) in the lower corner of the map caused overlapping aberrations: fixed.


The map has been tested on my testing server (thank you Wombat and Ali-G ), so here there are some comparison screenshots.

I would like if possible to git commit the update personally, (019-1.tmw, Snow_tree_x3.png, Snow.png).

comparison #1

comparison #2

[enchilado]

Definitely improvements.

I would like if possible to git commit the update personally, (019-1.tmw, Snow_tree_x3.png, Snow.png).

That's the best and easiest way; commit, format-patch, post it here, and I will push it. First, though: the oak's snowline seems a little straight. Maybe if you brought it down a bit in the centre it would look more in-perspective.

[hal9000]

Ty for the feedback Poison. Maybe your sensation is correct..later I'll fix the snowline.

cy

[Crush]

It is indeed an improvement, but when you allow me to give some constructive criticism for the future: Dithering looks better when you try to make it less regular. It gives a surface a much more natural impression than checkboard dithering.


And it isn't hard to do at all. When you shade a gradient with dithering you just place random pixels, more on one side of the gradient and less on the other.

[hal9000]

It is indeed an improvement, but when you allow me to give some constructive criticism for the future..

your advices are always welcomed Crush

I got what are you talking about, however problems come out when I have to shade gradients that are few pixel large. Here randomizing pixels becomes harder to do..btw I can see now some specific zones where I can improve the gradient with a more natural dithering. I'll give a try..

[pateame]

Nice preview, map looks much more attractive now with random trees surrounding.
About outline/shading/dither details, It's hard for me to check pixel by pixel because .JPG format reduces image quality and
doesn't provide a clear view of colors as .PNG format does. But I'm sure it looks as good as your previous work with snowfield trees,
Great work, keep on!

[enchilado]

About outline/shading/dither details, It's hard for me to check pixel by pixel because .JPG format reduces image quality and
doesn't provide a clear view of colors as .PNG format does.

Gah, good point! I didn't even notice that.


EDIT: Also, please use tags in future.

[hal9000]

I've finally found some time to work on the trees..so here there are the modifications:

Snow-Oak:

- V-shaped snow-line;
- more natural dithering.

Attachments:

comparison (start, start+v-shape, start+v-shape+rand-dith), snow-oak PNG, FND pixel tag (that could be used when the work will be considered as finished).

Gah, good point! I didn't even notice that.

I usually post PNG files..this time however I had chosen JPG with 1x1, 1x1, 1x1 subsampling (hard to notice chromatic changes even when zoomed) for the 2 large map comparisons (PNG were 1.2 mb each)..but automatically I've done the same thing also for the tileset comparison..I don't know why..I must be lost in thought

Another point: I've read about a discussion about saving PNGs with lower compression ratio to increase the in-game performance when loading image files..how this effectively affects the gameplay? has anybody (poison_ivy, crush,..) tested it?

[Crush]

Another point: I've read about a discussion about saving PNGs with lower compression ratio to increase the in-game performance when loading image files..how this effectively affects the gameplay? has anybody (poison_ivy, crush,..) tested it?

I didn't test different PNG compression ratios, but we were experimenting with TGA files instead of PNG (Yes, the Mana client can handle TGAs. It can also handle a lot of other common raster graphics). TGAs are not as small as PNGs but are much faster to decode. So we thought about using TGAs for small graphics like icons. We indeed noticed a notable performance gain, but still decided against it to avoid making content management more complicated.

When you want to fine-tune loading times with compression formats, you have to take some things into account:
1. reading data from the hard drive takes time. For people with fast CPUs and slow hard drives, a less compressed image might take longer to load than a strongly compressed one.
2. keep in mind that some loading times matter more than others. A few milliseconds of load time between maps doesn't annoy the player much. But the stuttering when a new player comes onto the screen and all of its equipment is loaded is much more annoying. So when you are going to fine-tune loading times, start with the equipment sprites.
3. No matter how fast they are decoded, larger files mean that downloading them with the auto updater will take longer. This is especially annoying for users without broadband connections.

[enchilado]

I've finally found some time to work on the trees..so here there are the modifications:

Snow-Oak:

- V-shaped snow-line;
- more natural dithering.

That looks really good; it has my approval. However, it was pointed out to me (I was being unobservant again) that you have put the license as the CC BY-SA. All TMW's graphics must be licensed under the GNU GPL:

Before posting any art contributions on this forum/website or any other communication interface which belongs to The Mana World project, you have to take under your consideration and accept the fact that any intellectual property donated to The Mana World is released under terms of GNU General Public License.

We do not accept anything released under proprietary licenses.

We also accept art contributions released under GPL-compatible licenses or from public domain. Posting a contribution on this forum/website/wiki (and other media that belongs to the project) means acceptation of the above rules unless explicitely stated otherwise.

[hal9000]

That looks really good; it has my approval.

when I'll be back home I'll post the tileset and the .tmx file

However, it was pointed out to me (I was being unobservant again) that you have put the license as the CC BY-SA. All TMW's graphics must be licensed under the GNU GPL.

I have no problem to use a different license especially if GNU GPL ..but..

this is really weird..I mean CCBYSA 3.0 license is really open link

the only conditions are that you have to attribute the work to the author (as TMW alredy does in contributor/author file), and that modified works maintain the same license (you couldn't swap the license with a different one)..

AFAIK cc-by-sa 3.0 is the common choise of lots of opensource projects as for example supertuxkart, sumwars,.. they use gpl for the code and cc-by-sa 3.0 for the graphics.

btw here there's the new version pixel-tag

[Crush]

the only conditions are [...] that modified works maintain the same license (you couldn't swap the license with a different one)..

The GPL has the same condition which you just violated. You've created a derivate work of the trees which are licensed under the GNU GPL. So you must license it under the GNU GPL too, or you violate the copyright of the original author (Len, as far as I remember).

Yes, in retrospective the GPL is not the best license for the content, because it was designed for software. But we still decided to stick with it because when we allow differently licensed graphics in the same content we will have a hopeless snarl of legal obligations to fulfill. Even though GPL and CC-BY-SA are very similar, there are still small nuances you all have to take into account when working with TMW content. The most important being that both don't allow combination with other licenses, so you can not reuse work with different licenses in the same image.

[hal9000]

lol, really I didn't want to be polemic I was just exploring TMW licensing policy ..it looked just strange to me that a CCBYSA has been refused as you have just said the 2 licenses are really closed..

and if in the future a project similar to TMW will adopt both GPL and CCBYSA licenses it will be able to use our contents..but if it will use CCBYSA for its own new graphics we won't be able to do the same (if we will ever need)..that's all..

about my "violations" I apologize to have added my layer of snow to Len's work it wasn't my intention to change any of your licenses.. I swear it

cy

[Crush]

As far as I remember there already are some private servers (I think Aethyra and TAW) which include content with different licenses than GPL. I consider this a very bad decision.

1. They have to keep track of which file is licensed under which license. This adds another boring documentation task for their content management. And we all love doing documentation, don't we?
2. It limits what they can do, because with most licenses they can't combine graphics with two different licenses to create a derivate work. Well, they can always ask the original artist for permission, but artists tend to come and go rather quickly.
3. when you use their complete content for another game, you have to take all the licenses into account and have to make sure that you follow every single one of them. This makes it much harder to use the content for another server (this might be intentional for some, because I met some art contributors which were a lot more protective of their work than healthy for an open source community).

By the way, I was planning to create a very simple demo game for Manaserv with content from scratch. I am not sure if I will ever get around doing it, but when I do, I think I will not release it under the GPL but a copyleft license similar in spirit which is better suited for art.

[Alige]

Sorry to bump this thread but I just removed the snow under the trees hal9000 improved, thats why they weren't added yet. I think that another review wouldn't hurt.