More love for warriors

[bell chick]

i agree that if the issue is really cost then add cost to warrior and give them a decent attack. cost is just an excuse to keep warriors in a state of virtual uselessness

[radiant]

So I had an idea. If we can't have a whistle of #itenplz (due to magic and use scripts being different, incompatible languages with no interoperability), how about a pseudo-weapon...something along the lines of a dueling glove, that goes in the sword slot. It would provide guaranteed criticals (and thus guaranteed hits), but its ATK would be ridiculously low, something like -500 or -999, ensuring that the "hits" it deals will only ever be for 1 damage. The point is to allow players who are in position to protect someone else, to actually, reliably do so by drawing the enemy fire off of a player who's running away, without needing to spread out points across yet another stat just to be able to use the #itenplz spell which was always intended as merely a joke anyway. You could switch back and forth between the "glove" for pulling enemies in, and the actual weapon when you need to damage them, and it would have almost no effect on the rate of XP return.

[mistergrey]

Honestly, I'm still not sure such a whistle would be impossible... Perhaps the use scripts won't handle spell effects, I'm not sure there, but even then, an item could be added (a whistle for example) along with a new "NONMAGIC" spell that does the same thing as itenplz, for anyone who has that whistle in their inventory. It wouldn't be as cool in the sense that you could "use" the whistle to do it... but then again, either way it's still something that could be hotkeyed for convenience.

bell chick: Cost is not just an excuse to keep warriors useless, you seem to ignore the fact that warriors trade in some of the raw destructive power that archers and mages have, for the ability to stand and take hits, and to farm monsters for long periods without a need to go back and restock on arrows or spell components. In a realistic sense, the only average cost I can see warriors needing to pay is to repair their equipment, and that would end up applying to other classes too (assuming such a feature is possible to implement without much work even). You seem to think it'd be worth the trade off there, to have a regular expense for the reward of more damage, but not everyone will agree with you or want that. The ones who play warrior to farm especially, will probably think that such a change will make it even harder to play effectively as warriors.

[Ledmitz]

My thoughts; Pretend for a minute that this is your very first character and you automatically have 3 skills. Those skills are the 3 classes in this game, warrior, archer and mage, though I would love to see more added. Now imagine that you get to choose what you want to start as, minus the mage since you can't get magic yet. Your answer dictates what weapon you get... a dagger or a bow... OR a knife or a slingshot if you want to add a new item, or you could just start with both, just in case. Now let's say you choose to be warrior, the weapon you use (all melee weapons) would cause the exp to go to the warrior catergory, but then say you get a bow at level 20 and start using it. Automatically all you're exp goes into the archer category, and when you gain magic and use a spell that gives exp, that goes to the mage category. Now, how you actually play decides what you are. If you are a mage, but you whack at herbs and minor mobs for spell components, then you'd be adding to the warrior category. If you hunt with a bow: archer. Now characters become more diverse and changing you're skill means only that you are statting to fight a certain way. No more being a warrior, then archer, then mage. That's like me saying I know a lot about plumbing but I want to become a computer programmer. I'd like to exchange knowledge please. We might play on computers a lot, but we cannot actually be programmed. So now... if you are a level 99 mage, no one can contest that you didn't earn it. Same goes for all classes. In fact, if you did go warrior to level 99, you could retire, keep playing as is, or start using a bow or magic, but you're experience in those classes is only what you've gained so far. However if things get too tough, just fight melee to get past the tough stuff, since that is what you're already good at. One problem though, what about status points? Can you just place your status points from level 99 warrior as mage stats like before? No. There would be no real restatting anymore, just gaining more status points to put in the new categories. You wouldn't lose str.. or agi or become dumber to accommodate new status points. You'd just gain them as is natural. This leaves one real problem left though... you were a warrior, then switch to archer.. now I gain points and put them into dex and agi, but when I play melee, I have more dex and agi than I should have. There are a few ways to get around this problem. The easiest is to diminish the amount of total status points given at each class level by dividing by 3 or more for each level.. so if you get 26 points to spend normally, after you're overall total level is 99, you might only get 8 status points to use now, because you don't need the extra points to put in other stats.
As far as I've always been concerned, changing from one class to another and trading in vit to gain strength is cheating, but since it has always been a part of the game, we've accepted it. With this system, if I am a strong and need more Vit for a quest like Illia, I would have to place stat points where they belong from now on. If I am level 99 in my class and cannot gain more stat points to place in Vit, then I need to broaden my experience to gain the extra Vit. This would make it tough in some ways, but if you knew this ahead of time, you might actually place stat points for survival too, instead of just racing towards 99.
There's still one issue left though. What about mages? They are hindered by this system because they cannot be a mage from the very start, therefore it will take longer for a mage to get top status points to place. It is a bit of a dillema. Maybe players could be advised by and NPC to decide what class to play before a certain level, if they wish to be able to be able to restat for magic. Restats should be minimal or only occur once if this is the case.
Thoughts?

[o11c]

In a realistic sense, the only average cost I can see warriors needing to pay is to repair their equipment, and that would end up applying to other classes too (assuming such a feature is possible to implement without much work even).

Actually, there's quite a bit of code to support that. Of course, my main job is to remove as much code as possible without breaking anything we *currently* use, but I *was* careful to leave this particular code even though it's unused.

In practice, it won't get my blessing until I've rebuilt the item system.

[bell chick]

My thoughts; Pretend for a minute that this is your very first character and you automatically have 3 skills. Those skills are the 3 classes in this game, warrior, archer and mage, though I would love to see more added. Now imagine that you get to choose what you want to start as, minus the mage since you can't get magic yet. Your answer dictates what weapon you get... a dagger or a bow... OR a knife or a slingshot if you want to add a new item, or you could just start with both, just in case. Now let's say you choose to be warrior, the weapon you use (all melee weapons) would cause the exp to go to the warrior catergory, but then say you get a bow at level 20 and start using it. Automatically all you're exp goes into the archer category, and when you gain magic and use a spell that gives exp, that goes to the mage category. Now, how you actually play decides what you are. If you are a mage, but you whack at herbs and minor mobs for spell components, then you'd be adding to the warrior category. If you hunt with a bow: archer. Now characters become more diverse and changing you're skill means only that you are statting to fight a certain way. No more being a warrior, then archer, then mage. That's like me saying I know a lot about plumbing but I want to become a computer programmer. I'd like to exchange knowledge please. We might play on computers a lot, but we cannot actually be programmed. So now... if you are a level 99 mage, no one can contest that you didn't earn it. Same goes for all classes. In fact, if you did go warrior to level 99, you could retire, keep playing as is, or start using a bow or magic, but you're experience in those classes is only what you've gained so far. However if things get too tough, just fight melee to get past the tough stuff, since that is what you're already good at. One problem though, what about status points? Can you just place your status points from level 99 warrior as mage stats like before? No. There would be no real restatting anymore, just gaining more status points to put in the new categories. You wouldn't lose str.. or agi or become dumber to accommodate new status points. You'd just gain them as is natural. This leaves one real problem left though... you were a warrior, then switch to archer.. now I gain points and put them into dex and agi, but when I play melee, I have more dex and agi than I should have. There are a few ways to get around this problem. The easiest is to diminish the amount of total status points given at each class level by dividing by 3 or more for each level.. so if you get 26 points to spend normally, after you're overall total level is 99, you might only get 8 status points to use now, because you don't need the extra points to put in other stats.
As far as I've always been concerned, changing from one class to another and trading in vit to gain strength is cheating, but since it has always been a part of the game, we've accepted it. With this system, if I am a strong and need more Vit for a quest like Illia, I would have to place stat points where they belong from now on. If I am level 99 in my class and cannot gain more stat points to place in Vit, then I need to broaden my experience to gain the extra Vit. This would make it tough in some ways, but if you knew this ahead of time, you might actually place stat points for survival too, instead of just racing towards 99.
There's still one issue left though. What about mages? They are hindered by this system because they cannot be a mage from the very start, therefore it will take longer for a mage to get top status points to place. It is a bit of a dillema. Maybe players could be advised by and NPC to decide what class to play before a certain level, if they wish to be able to be able to restat for magic. Restats should be minimal or only occur once if this is the case.
Thoughts?

wwith all do respect i hate the idea i play with all classes and would hate to be locked ibto only ever being just one class. what makes tmw fun for me is i can match my class to my mood. others are the same way. i think id likely leave if such an idea went through

[jasjohnie]

I agree sir me to have so much love of warrior characters,,,for me this is the best characters to use,,,
i really like the skills and mods of warrior.


_______________________________________
“Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”
Dr. Seuss knives

[Joseph^Sod]

I have a gripe, I play as a warrior and find it hard to understand how a lady skeleton can outreach a sword, speaking of swords.... why are they more like knives? We need more swords.... they could be made from gemstones(or something!) and should have a greater reach than a monster that's swiping at you(maybe not a yeti). I would like to see more of a balance for the warrior's. too many stat's to raise and i shouldn't have to switch to being a archer just to lvl..... id rather just be a warrior.

[Joseph^Sod]

How about a sword to fight against the undead...(sword not a knife) & it has some sort of bonus(with the undead only) and you need to hire a mage(non-npc) to make it for you.

Gemstone sword's would be kewl IMO... just a thought....

[LordHangen]

so old time player, recent come back player after years of being gone. love the changes that have happened (who doesnt like to see a game continue development) but fact is that playing this time around ive noticed that in order to have a decent experience your pretty much forced to be a mage or archer. of course you can play as a warrior, which i am at the moment, but it seems that you dont receive enough stat points per lvl to be a efficient warrior. either you do high damage at a fast rate or you do low damage and receive very little damage. IMO it feels lopsided. also the very thought of grinding for coal and making ingots is extreme. i understand the point though, to make it worth getting. but running around seeing others deal 200-300 damage with a bow makes me feel like a peon as a warrior...are they not supposed to be more powerful and lethal than a mere archer? just my thoughts though, sorry if these have already been stated seeing as how i didnt read through the 4 pages of posts. still love the game either way, its not one that you can max out extremely quick and have nothing to do so keep up the good work developers and testers!

[Len]

so old time player, recent come back player after years of being gone. love the changes that have happened (who doesnt like to see a game continue development) but fact is that playing this time around ive noticed that in order to have a decent experience your pretty much forced to be a mage or archer. of course you can play as a warrior, which i am at the moment, but it seems that you dont receive enough stat points per lvl to be a efficient warrior. either you do high damage at a fast rate or you do low damage and receive very little damage. IMO it feels lopsided. also the very thought of grinding for coal and making ingots is extreme. i understand the point though, to make it worth getting. but running around seeing others deal 200-300 damage with a bow makes me feel like a peon as a warrior...are they not supposed to be more powerful and lethal than a mere archer? just my thoughts though, sorry if these have already been stated seeing as how i didnt read through the 4 pages of posts. still love the game either way, its not one that you can max out extremely quick and have nothing to do so keep up the good work developers and testers!

It took me less than 24 hours to farm the coal/iron needed to make a iron shield, Crusade helm, and warlord plate. Its painfully easy to get the best equipment in TMW when you compare it to any other MMO (granted the combat is better in most MMOs making the grind less apparent).

they not supposed to be more powerful and lethal than a merearcher?

In most of the RPGs I've played warriors sacrifice DPS for high defense, they generally fill the role of meat shield (usually they are given a way to hold mob's hostility to facilitate this). Archers generally solo, if they are in a team they usually contribute DPS and debuffs to a party. Sadly TMW doesn't use a true class system, making it really hard to define what a warrior should be (as you can make a tanky character with good dps). Also group play in TMW has very little strategic imperative, as death has no meaning. So who cares about having a tank to absorb damage and hold aggro? Why would a tank protect archers and mages from dying when TMW is more of a race to do the most damage and in doing so get the most exp/loot?

[bell chick]

ok change of opinion due to more game experience and more levels as well. i can tell you warrior does get better. fast forward a few weeks and i do a near constant 360 damage to every mob out damaging most archers. i dont survive as well as true tanks but i do survive. so i wouldnt say its lopsided it just takes warrior a while to catch up due to having to put into more stats

[Gatekeeper]

If a Warrior should hit more Monstern in his Range then TWM would more Fun for Warriors as now.

I suggest a new Skill:

Sweeping Blow (DamageDealer)

Al Level9 the Warrior can hit max 5 monsters at the same time but his regeneraion will sink at 50% of the normal Regeneration

[radiant]

Why would I want to focus on a skill like that?

[bell chick]

Why would I want to focus on a skill like that?

ity wouldnt be useful as a skill because it isnt as good as the skills the warriors already have. now ive envisioned abattle cry which works like a spell but only if the magic bar is grey. it could eithewr do a weak attack on multiple enemies or be a short ranghed itenplz to give the warriors the tanking ability they desperately need