Is the Banshee Bow over powered? (or Bull Helm)

[v0id]

Context: The Illia Quest brought 4 new items. 3 of them had the purpose to bring existing classes to a next level (the 4th is an accessory and suits most classes). These items shouldnt be obtained easily, and, as being the most difficult quest in the game, no other items should match these.
One guideline for these items was "bring high power, for high price". I understand the banshee bow is subject to controverse, because it's the one which goes in the extreme regarding the guideline.

From what has been said above, it appears the existing differences between the classes are still the same, so I don't see any problem. It's just all damages have been raised, which is fair enough considering how hard those items are to be obtained: the quest is available since almost a month, yet it has been finished 12 times only. I cant say how many times it has been tried, but that's between 150-200 times I'd say.

@Travolta: if you stop bragging around about a "cheating bow", maybe you ll be taken more seriously.


Now for having used the items in-game:

* The Banshee Bow is really great for levelling, but get prepared to spend a lot of healing items, especially if you use potions. "Lot of healing items" means you ll need to heal like every 10 seconds if you use conc/iron pots. Also, you ll never be with your HP full ever, you already suffer -150 HP and your defense is very low. You are often at 1-2 hits close to death. Conclusion: If you're bad at dodging mobs, the bow is not for you.
For farming, it's not good: you ll kill things faster but you'll blow your money away in healings... you can sit and wait 3-5 secs like Travolta suggests, but then, what's the point to kill faster if it's to sit and wait often ? just stick with forest bow.
* The Bull Helmet is great too for levelling and farming also. It deals less damages (but not that less as seen in previous posts) than a banshee bow, but you dont really need to worry about a mob spawning in your back. You can even play tank with it: with vit 85 and a Heart of Isis, I never needed a single heal in Candor. Nothing new here, it's the same differences than the classic warrior / archer debate: more secure, less damage.
* The Lazurite Robe allows to jump to high m.attack. While it's useful for more damages, the difference i feel is not that amazing. However all spells last longer / are more efficient (betsanc, asorm, etc). Also, 1 Iron Ore -> 7 iron powders. 1 Pile of Ash -> 10 sulphur powders. So the robe strength isn't only in fighting.

[GiGi]

Very fair assessment I'd say. As originally posted, with more levels or something more to the game in general, these items are great.
I agree that more variety should exist in game for lower levels, everyone wears the same thing.

One issue, Travolta is not "bragging" about the bow. Though I agree he uses the term "cheating bow" a little too liberally imo, it is because he, like me, has had friends bullied by Luvia with this bow, one instance where you actually stole a drop from two players hunting terranites.

And so the rich get richer.

[Ledmitz]

Well well... I was all exited about the Rage skill only to be underdogged again. The one thing that a warrior could have was good crits, while the other 2 classes had their own advantages , as they always have (since I've been playing). I have to agree that it is too much... what you gave to ragers, you just took away, by adding the banshee bow, even though the other classes have cool items too from this quest... let's face it, the Bull Helmet does not match up to the power of either.. and again... the warrior gets hurt more from using... losing even more tank status, but all this aside, I really don't want the bow to go. I like that it is here and it should stay.... but there are some things that do bother me;

I am a Warrior. Can I have a SWORD now, that is worth using? I feel like an inmate shanking corpses in the GY with my variety of dinky knives, and don't dare even mention the short sword (which should be the more powerful between the setzer and it logically) also the setzer is faster than unequipped which also makes no sense. I mean.. seriously... Can we have a decent weapon at some point? 2 handed would be a really nice option too. I know this makes things more dynamic and that is the point.

The problem here is not that items are being added, it is that not enough things are changing in order to keep this conversation from happening over and over. It should be thought more like Rock, Paper, Scissors Mage beats warrior, warrior beats archer, archer beats mage or better yet, think in terms of skills rather than classes. we need more skills and the ability to use more than 1. You need to complicate the stats as much as possible by adding different combinations of skills and equipment that can be used. This conversation would be MUCH better if it never ended at all and people fought about how their class is better than the others, instead of us all knowing who wins in PVP before we ever get there. Food for thought.

And in other RPG's (old book type before RPG turned into a computer game term) your abilities change by how much you are carrying and what you are wearing.... if you have full platemail, you lose dexterity and agility, which is why archers usually settled for studded leather... Mages simply couldn't cast at all with certain items on. You can't have the nimblness needed by a mage in platemail either. Or maybe you want no armor.. so you can move and hit better. It is very silly to see mages and archers in full plate... in fact.. complicate it more.. you are missing classes (skills)... brawling isn't finished and needs to be, but not till the weight/equip issue gets fixed.

Just make it more confusing for us to tell what class is best (archer still best for exp and now PVP too? Phooey on that.. not both) All you need to do is release level 3 magic and add a few weapons that warriors can fight over what is best. WHAT IN THE WORLD DO I HAVE THIS MYLARIN DUST FOR? Can I use it PLeaaaaaaaaase? Ice Gladius sucks, +1 luck is useless even to a rager. We WANT a SWORD!!!!!!! Mwahahahahahaha!!

[o11c]

Hm, I guess we could penalize dex/agi with heavy armor ... mages already get a reasonable enough penalty.

[bell chick]

agreed warriors desperately need an actual sword

[bell chick]

Hm, I guess we could penalize dex/agi with heavy armor ... mages already get a reasonable enough penalty.

you dont want to do that before you give more advantages to being warrior. warrior is already heavily pnealized by requiring so many different stats

[bell chick]

a better idea would be to take an idea from the bull helm and make warlord plate warlord helm light plate and crusader melee only. if an archer needs armor they still would have the chain and kknight helm and other such lower end armor. this would make armor the nearly sole province of warriors

[Ledmitz]

As much as I like a magical item, like the Banshee Bow, that can reject a user based on level and stats, it is not the only way to do this. You already have a weight system in place that causes you to not gain health and magic after the halfway point of what you can actually carry. If you put other limitations at different intervals within that weight system, like at 1/20 full weight lose 1 agi point... at 2/20 lose 2 agi .. or whatever ratio seems to make the most sense. I do think that if a stat is penalized for this, it should be agility, because all classes make use of this stat. You could penalize dexterity too, especially if you make dexterity more important to mages, as it should be. A mage has to be nimble with their fingers. They may have to do a little dance to make it rain.. these things require dexterity... so if that gets factored in, would an archer really be as fast if they wore full warlord? Would they see as well in their peripheral vision? Might their arm armor get in the way of making a good shot? What strength would a mage need to carry enough armor to make it to save Cindy?
What components should they take with them and how many of each? No need to be encumbered, right? It will only slow you down and degrade performance, but you definately don't want to run out either.
A 2-handed sword would also be worth using if agility did more to help miss/dodge (melee only?). Imagine how players would start to look so different from one another, if one fights in the Graveyard in full plate, another in chainmail using a smaller shield, and a barbarian wearing much less, but being able to dodge so much more, while dishing out more damage from using a 2-handed weapon. Oh.. a 2-handed weapon would be slower, of course.

It would be hard to complete this system and make it perfect right away, but by adding one thing at a time, things will eventually balance better and hopefully players will be confused enough to not know what to play as anymore for the most points, thereby making them choose to play what they enjoy most or think is best for them.

I say keep the Banshee Bow, but keep balancing the game as you've been doing so far.
TMW kicks BUTT!!!

[Travolta]

Dear V0id, I'd like to apologise for all the negativity I put into this post. I appreciate your work very much. You made an awesome quest, I like the storyline, the mobs, and the difficulcy. There is no "but", I really do like it. I enjoy doing it, especially after the server lags less.

Dear Silent Dawn, thank you for trying to be objective and telling that this post is only to express players' opinions.

And Fiona, I'm sorry for being so negative to you lately.

I was quite jelious that you guys have many high level chars, and can do the illia quest many times and get all rewards. I'm a human being, not perfect, I have my flaws. I'm not updating this post because I said everything I wanted about it. And there are no wrong or right players here, everybody has a point of view, and I think we shouldn't fight about it or hate each other.

Before you ask, yes, now I have all rewards from the quest I wanted. And after using all of them for a while, I can tell that all of them can couse headache for it's owner. Except the heart of isis, which I like so much ^_^

So I hope you guys forgive me, I can be spiky, easilly get cranky, and jelious when somebody has more than me. I'd like if we wouldn't pretend the other is invisible when we sit next to each other

Travolta.

[bell chick]

Did you also count the critical bonus given by terranite arrows ? It can go easily until 80% then.
I don't understand why the most fast class have the best critical rate. Maybe something like +40% would be more balanced.

Archer is already the most powerful class for now.

warrirs can still out crit the banshee archers with bull helm and rage. just thought id point that out

[Chicka-Maria]

Did you also count the critical bonus given by terranite arrows ? It can go easily until 80% then.
I don't understand why the most fast class have the best critical rate. Maybe something like +40% would be more balanced.

Archer is already the most powerful class for now.

warrirs can still out crit the banshee archers with bull helm and rage. just thought id point that out

The banshee bow is slightly faster than the bull helmet, but yes the bull helmet does do more critical damage than the banshee bow which makes up for it.

regards,

[bell chick]

Did you also count the critical bonus given by terranite arrows ? It can go easily until 80% then.
I don't understand why the most fast class have the best critical rate. Maybe something like +40% would be more balanced.

Archer is already the most powerful class for now.

warrirs can still out crit the banshee archers with bull helm and rage. just thought id point that out

The banshee bow is slightly faster than the bull helmet, but yes the bull helmet does do more critical damage than the banshee bow which makes up for it.

regards,

i honestly need to test the speed more. its been a while since i really handled the bow. i know with setzer and bull helm on my current setup im getting an attack delay of 379 amd 112% crits. i plan on being archer again soon and ill have more up todate knowledge of banshee setups soon

[Ledmitz]

Plleeeeeaase! It's not just crit rate here.. It's total damage. The bow far out powers the helmet and it DOES give more crit chance than the helmet. The rest of the crits are done with the rage skill. I'm totally fine with it though, as long as warriors get their long awaited two-handed sword that should out power your screaming, rapid fire rocket launcher that looks like a bow, since we're the one's that take all the hits.

[LordDune]

The Banshee Bow is designed to kill banshees. Unfortunately, I don't see any in game. It kills everything else with ease. Except those Banshees.

Seriously though, I think there should be a spell you can cast to cause the bow to miss for a short period of time. Archers can cast asorm to evade mages spells, their needs to be something to do to evade this bow from Hell for a brief period of time to at least level the playing field a bit.

[0x0BAL]

Why not making those new items wearable by lower level players too?
Edit: and let the same necessity of stats to get those bonuses.