The official server flamewar topic

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Frost
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Frost »

Nard wrote:
Len wrote:He means they voted through action, by staying with.org rather than running off to .Net.
I understood that Len. however I cannot say this is a vote nor admit it can be interpreted as a vote. Most players come to this server because their friends are on this server and because TMW is bookmarked here.
GMs, admins, and lead devs all agreed that the move was necessary in order for TMW to survive. Note that I say "necessary" not "desireable." We expected the same network attacks that every other "rival" server to Platyna has experienced. This was explicitly an informed decision.

I agree there is some amount of inertia when people choose what servers to play, but if someone told me that every leader of a project except one made a decision, and that dissenting leader had a personal interest in the result, I would not lightly dismiss the reasons for that decision.

The bottom line is that every GM and admin, several valued advisors, and several key developers made an informed decision to change hosting providers. That change resulted in a good gameplay experience. Platyna has one respectable dev/GM (Chicka) and one less respectable dev/GM (Salah). I've heard nothing about the new server she finally bought using years-ago donations. She has no admins to help her solve problems. Her GM log looks like the testing server. These are all measures of leadership, not of player activity.

Although the leadership of TMW is more a meritocracy than a democracy, players certainly have choices about where to play. I have too much respect for the people who play this game to say we think like "sheep." :)
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Rill
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Rill »

Frost wrote:I have too much respect for the people who play this game to say we think like "sheep."
+1
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Nard
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Nard »

Nard wrote:As a player I behave mainly as sheep, just as a couple of contributors of this thread. :)
Frost wrote: I have too much respect for the people who play this game to say we think like "sheep." :)
I did not say "people who play this game" but I.
Another small correction salah is not (fortunately) a GM though you nominated him, and as a developer, we will see... :/ Chicka is not a developer as far as I can see.

BTW I have no illusion that's all. Most players do not come on TMW or TMW original or any other server by conviction, but to play, thus they come where are other players and they are right to do so. (contents are almost the same). If it was not the case, the player numbers would have been much more balanced between TMW, UFB or TAW 3 years ago. I tried almost all TMW servers that are or were available between 2010 and now and saw either that the content difference was not worth a real switch or when it was, the player community was not big enough to fill all of them. Only UFB had an interesting size, but it was ddosed, maybe because of that :(
It is different for developers. This is also why so many left during past years. And Platyna is for sure not the only nor the main cause of that. Some of the causes are still here. And usually analog causes have similar effects...
When I look to the contributions of this thread, I am rather pessimistic on TMWs (plural) futures.
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Narus »

Nard wrote: "Another small correction salah is not (fortunately) a GM though you nominated him, and as a developer, we will see... :/..."
Who Do you think this person is? : [2013-05-31 13:43:21] 008-1.gat(78,81) JaneZ Berbu(2221408) : @item gmcap

Frost´s post in .net forums was a joke, no one got it it seems no one gets that the same player Salah IS a GM there ALREADY. Yup that is the same guy the whole GM team try to catch and banned several times for phishing, the same we had the order from Platyna directly to ban on sight...
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Nard »

Narus wrote:
Nard wrote: "Another small correction salah is not (fortunately) a GM though you nominated him, and as a developer, we will see... :/..."
Who Do you think this person is? : [2013-05-31 13:43:21] 008-1.gat(78,81) JaneZ Berbu(2221408) : @item gmcap

Frost´s post in .net forums was a joke, no one got it it seems no one gets that the same player Salah IS a GM there ALREADY. Yup that is the same guy the whole GM team try to catch and banned several times for phishing, the same we had the order from Platyna directly to ban on sight...
I do not see Frost's post as a Joke rather as a troll.
I perfectly know who Salah aka Supiour-King-Valc-Kiruana-Inka-Natsuki/s-mack/super-buster/chiribo/heinz guro is, as I reported him myself on many occasions in game, on this forum:
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 46#p131346
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 65#p127665), on IRC..., But you are right http://server.themanaworld.net/gm/gm.log.2013-05 is eloquent. I immediately ask an explanation to Platyna.
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
“There are two motives for reading a book; one, that you enjoy it; the other, that you can boast about it.” Bertrand Russell, Conquest of Happiness.
"If you optimize everything, you will always be unhappy." Donald Knuth.
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Len
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Len »

Nard wrote: I do not see Frost's post as a Joke rather as a troll.
Turnabout is fair play :alt-9:
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Nard
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Nard »

Len wrote:Turnabout is fair play :alt-9:
If it is a play it is a very bad one. I can't see anything fair in it.
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
“There are two motives for reading a book; one, that you enjoy it; the other, that you can boast about it.” Bertrand Russell, Conquest of Happiness.
"If you optimize everything, you will always be unhappy." Donald Knuth.
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Len
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Len »

Nard wrote:
Len wrote:Turnabout is fair play :alt-9:
If it is a play it is a very bad one. I can't see anything fair in it.
Almost every post Platyna has made on .org since the move has basically been dig at TMWC, and now you are surprised when members of the TMWC do the same on .Net?
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor »

Len wrote: Almost every post Platyna has made on .org since the move has basically been dig at TMWC, and now you are surprised when members of the TMWC do the same on .Net?
We are surprised because we were told how much better this administration was going to be than Platyna. It looks from this example that instead they are doing exactly what they claim they didn't like about her. Also, nobody is coming on .org to nominate rulesbreakers for GM, in the wrong forum section besides. I doubt that would be tolerated here, so there is no reason for admins from .org (who know better) to do it there. Maybe Platyna is doing some amnesties, but that is no reason to nominate them for GM. :P
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Len
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Len »

blackrazor wrote:
Len wrote: Also, nobody is coming on .org to nominate rulesbreakers for GM, in the wrong forum section besides. I doubt that would be tolerated here,
We would just move it to the correct section, and I'm sure known rule-breakers have been nominated before.

When a single post (per person anyways) is considered spam http://forums.themanaworld.net/viewtopi ... =4&t=17181, I can't envision .Net as the height of tolerance.

http://forums.themanaworld.net/viewtopi ... =4&t=17178 She also considers it trolling (the bar is set low it seems), the people whom made those post do consider it to be a legitimate request. I would request it too, If I was not already aware it would fall on deaf ears (or eyes as the case may be).
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by Nard »

Len wrote:Almost every post Platyna has made on .org since the move has basically been dig at TMWC, and now you are surprised when members of the TMWC do the same on .Net?
If Platyna hangs herself will you do the same?
Narcotics Anonymous wrote:Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results
(sorry to quote it again BC :alt-7: )

And Btw This is not because I think that a lot of arguments developed here are fallacious, that I agree with all Platyna's past and actual decisions: I disagreed with Prsm's punishment publicly and was the only one to do it; I disagree with Janez nomination as GM. I said what I think on this forum while many behave like carpets in front of Platyna (or other admins). Maybe things could have been different if there have been different attitude too. I finally think that there is enough dirt to remove in front of TMWmoved's door to avoid watching TMWoriginal's one.
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
“There are two motives for reading a book; one, that you enjoy it; the other, that you can boast about it.” Bertrand Russell, Conquest of Happiness.
"If you optimize everything, you will always be unhappy." Donald Knuth.
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor »

Len wrote:
blackrazor wrote:
Len wrote: Also, nobody is coming on .org to nominate rulesbreakers for GM, in the wrong forum section besides. I doubt that would be tolerated here,
We would just move it to the correct section, and I'm sure known rule-breakers have been nominated before.

When a single post (per person anyways) is considered spam http://forums.themanaworld.net/viewtopi ... =4&t=17181, I can't envision .Net as the height of tolerance.

http://forums.themanaworld.net/viewtopi ... =4&t=17178 She also considers it trolling (the bar is set low it seems), the people whom made those post do consider it to be a legitimate request. I would request it too, If I was not already aware it would fall on deaf ears (or eyes as the case may be).
I don't doubt you could find proper examples on .Net forums (or .Org, historically speaking) of Platyna making unpopular, abrupt, or harsh rulings. I'm sure the one where Platyna makes the "hands cut off" remark, attributed but not directly quoted from here: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 24&start=5, is a favorite for a lot of people. So Len, I'm surprised you didn't try a little harder to at least dredge up some better examples that were not clear examples of more trolls coming onto .Net recently to make demands that no one would normally care about, except to troll and make mischief.
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by o11c »

blackrazor wrote:I'm sure the one where Platyna makes the "hands cut off" remark, attributed but not directly quoted from here: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 24&start=5, is a favorite for a lot of people.
The forums have this really useful button labelled "search"
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor »

o11c wrote:
blackrazor wrote:I'm sure the one where Platyna makes the "hands cut off" remark, attributed but not directly quoted from here: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 24&start=5, is a favorite for a lot of people.
The forums have this really useful button labelled "search"
I couldn't be bothered; and neither could Len apparently. At least I gave a useful example, instead of more half-truth misinformative links that were really trollings and mischief, which YOU were a part of, by the way. Shame on you, o11c. You would do better to stick to cleaning up the server codeblob, instead of making petty mischief on .Net. Where do you find the time for such miserable nonsense, when your talents and time can clearly be put to such better use? At least I'm advocating for something I believe in, which are democratic reforms, in the face of what I have seen from both .Org and .Net administrations. But really, what are you advocating for exactly, when you come on to .Net just to troll?
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Re: The official server-move flamewar topic

Post by o11c »

blackrazor wrote: I couldn't be bothered; and neither could Len apparently. At least I gave a useful example, instead of more half-truth misinformative links that were really trollings and mischief, which YOU were a part of, by the way. Shame on you, o11c. You would do better to stick to cleaning up the server codeblob, instead of making petty mischief on .Net. Where do you find the time for such miserable nonsense, when your talents and time can clearly be put to such better use? At least I'm advocating for something I believe in, which are democratic reforms, in the face of what I have seen from both .Org and .Net administrations. But really, what are you advocating for exactly, when you come on to .Net just to troll?
Despite some allegations, I am not the same person as either Platyna or Frostypants. The *only* post that I have made on the .net forums is a legal request to delete my data, as I longer consent to Platyna keeping it.
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