[TEST] Testing 043-4

[Cassy]

Thanks for the awesome feedback

I picked up these things:

• the map needs to have difficulty level increasing as you go deeper
• there are bunch of mobs on entrance that really make it hard for a newbie to enter there
• there is also a need for a safe place to pull back if u need to rest a minute to heal [...] this map is quite far from nearby soul menhir
• The snakes, spiders scorpions that are scattered around make it hard for an archer to dodge attacks [...] i think the number of the weaker mob needs to be decreased. maybe converting them to strong mobs, 5 spiders - to one witch or something like this.

• trolls are cute as hell, but damn to they hit hard
• they respawn really fast
• the witches have really low dex and miss me a lot of the time [...] Also the low damage might be a must so that the lower level archers would have a hard time surviving otherwise, but make them hit more regularly i'd say.
• I think that it might be a good idea to have pathways without much else spawning so you can drag off a troll and team it down

• Undead Witch feels forced in there without any other undead mobs.
• I'd drop the spiders and keep the Snakes & Black Scorpions. Focus more on the Troll mob as primary cave spawn. Make the Troll like the terranite of that cave. You can recolor the Troll as well.

I'm thinking about these changes:

• Making Trolls weaker and friendly+assisting (like Mogguns, but stronger then them though)
• Creating a new different dyed version of the Troll, most likely black/gray and calling it Undead Troll with similar stats as the current regular Troll, but lower ATK - it will replace the spiders in this cave and now the mob "family" with Trolls, Undead Trolls and Undead Witch fits together better
• Deleting all mobs at the entrance and only leaving the new friendly Trolls there (so you can also rest here), next bigger place will have few Undead Trolls and one Undead Witch, next bigger place more Undead Trolls and two Undead Witches and so on (always filling with regular Trolls, Snakes and Black Scorpions) - that's for "difficulty level increasing as you go deeper"
• Deleting mob spawn places in the paths between - so there won't be too many mobs in the cave in general and you can rest at least a bit there
• Increasing eA_death and eA_spawn a bit so the respawn time will be slightly higher
• Increasing Undead Witch's DEX

Reading this post myself now it sounds like it will be a damn easy place after the changes.
That's not going to happen of course

[Hello=)]

Just gave it a try as archer, level 50, str:1 agi:35 vit:50 int:1 dex:56=53+3 luk:1 using forest bow, jeans chaps, boots and forest armor which is more or less realistic setup I guess. At lvl 50 GY meant to be unpleasant but noob places should be too easy already.

Even with vit=50 I've been "trolled". Probably someone escaped cave before me, leaving swarm at entrance. In this case trolls are "trolling" unsuspecting travellers entering cave . Got insta-killed right on entry into cave. Maybe entrance should be a bit more safe? GY entrance tends to be safer area not crowded by monsters unless someone bothers self to intentionally bring them here. On other hand, one by one trolls are okay, if you manage to keep them alone. They hit hard, but with vit=50 and some heals death is not anyhow instant unless player plays badly. Killing them takes some time, but XP is quite good as well. To be honest I don't like appearance of trolls (looking a bit like hedgehogs) and they're moving like slowpokes. Maybe they should look a bit more brute and walk faster? Undead witches could be nice to slay as well, if you can get only one on your tail. These are looking good and throwing some unpleasant charges. I think some few similar but a bit stronger (and faster!) witches should roam on GY to improve its appearance. Witches are okay to slay one by one but it's not easy to achieve this. And group of 3-4 witches can easily piss off archer - after all they're doing ranged shooting too, though their distance seems to be lower than my max. distance. Overall witches are manageable with some care. This map appears to be quite dangerous for lvl 50. I die a lot here, even if I have idea how to play TMW. And I also spend a lot of heals. Some terranites are here as extra bonus. Though meeting them at lvl 50 isn't funny, I guess those who complains about PKers in terra cave would have another place to grind their ore. Nice idea.

IMO overall map looks relatively boring: monsters are slow, it takes noticeable time to kill them and scenery is mostly static, etc. IIRC, these days ManaPlus should support animations. Could lava lake be animated, for example? It could improve overall look of scenery a bit. Also I think area needs some few FAST monsters which could unexpectedly pop out of somewhere and force player to regroup/retreat and/or deal with them first, making action less monotonous.

Now interesting question: what level and stats are expected for WARRIORS to enter this cave and fight vs different monsters? Usually player tends to attract a lot of monsters, who would swarm player if he stands still for a while. And warriors actually supposed to stand for a while to stab something. I wonder what levels/stats are supposed to be used for warriors here? Suggestions?

[SriNitayanda]

Just gave it a try as archer, level 50, str:1 agi:35 vit:50 int:1 dex:56=53+3 luk:1 using forest bow, jeans chaps, boots and forest armor which is more or less realistic setup I guess.

only archers i know who use 50 vit or more are banshee archers but ok...

Also the bunch of mobs at entrance is going to be changed. just look a post before yours.

and the map is designed for levels 60-80.

[Cassy]

@Fother:
Sure, we'll update them in client-data.
Sorry but the last particle effect i worked on left me still being too exhausted <.<


@t3st3er:
Also thanks for your feedback

As Nita said 043-4 is for lvl ~60-80 and your archer stats aren't suitable.
Personally I do it slightly different but the usual way is not touching anything but DEX until it's 90+ (most likely 99) and then give all to AGI.

For warriors stats let's trust veryape

I just tried out the new maps as a lvl 70 tank alongside nitaya as a archer/healer.

The stats i used was: str 26, agi 50, vit 60, int 1, dex 50 and 45 luck. And the equipment I used was setzer, warlord helmet, steel shield, warlord chest and chaps and fur boots.

Maybe you want to try again with these stats after the next update?

[Hello=)]

As Nita said 043-4 is for lvl ~60-80 and your archer stats aren't suitable.

1) Actually it's playable with such setup. But somewhat challenging. And I'm agree this setup is "pessimistic" a bit.
2) From my observation players of lvl 60-80 usually have no trouble to play on GY, especially in teams. Lowest levesl I've seen on GY were about 45-50 (though they die in numbers). Then there is question how this map would help to fill the gap in leveling. From my observation it getting hard to level in noob locations at levels 45-50 or so. Where lvl 45-60 players are supposed to level? IMIO that's where mentioned gap starts. On 60+ I could recommend GY, especially for ranged shooters and mages. Especially if they can gather some team.

The stats i used was: str 26, agi 50, vit 60, int 1, dex 50 and 45 luck. And the equipment I used was setzer, warlord helmet, steel shield, warlord chest and chaps and fur boots.

This one seems to have quite good equipment and rather tanked stats. Is this setup performs poorly on GY under same conditions (aka healer around)?

Maybe you want to try again with these stats after the next update?

Sure, why not. Though it looks like I've got questions about gaps in leveling.

[Hello=)]

only archers i know who use 50 vit or more are banshee archers but ok...

Newbies do a lot of mistakes and die easy, so they can get annoyed by this fact (this cave is far end and so I would not like idea to die here due to vit=1). So I doubt 1st-time player would go for vit=1 ever. Especially if player is about entering this cave. Vit=1 is rather synthetic, unforgiving setup, used mostly by some alts who are well aware how to play TMW and can optimize their gameplay (ok to consider but should not be priority IMO). Though I'm agree vit=50 could be over-pessimistic for archer.

Also the bunch of mobs at entrance is going to be changed. just look a post before yours.

Yeah, nice idea.

and the map is designed for levels 60-80.

Level 60-80 usually do not have real issues at GY? And where lvls 50-60 are supposed to level?

[thusmark]

Has this idea been abandoned or has it just been taken off of the testing server? I quite liked it.

[Cassy]

Has this idea been abandoned or has it just been taken off of the testing server? I quite liked it.

Nope, the next step is already finished and will soon be on the test server (delay caused by holidays)

[Graf Koks]

holiday quest broke it because introducing several mobs at the same time requires some manual adjustments that the script that patches all stuff that needs testing cant do. Im looking forward for your new maps Cassy.

[thusmark]

Ah, ok. Good to know. Thanks for the prompt response. Thank you for the great maps, Cassy!

[Haldric]

oh yeah. cool. Now I don't have to care about those skulls killing me at GY and those PKers in terra cave and their "owning cave" non sense.

[Cassy]

Updated version on the test server.

Changes are:

• Trolls are weaker now and friendly+assisting (like Mogguns, but stronger than them though)
• New mob Undead Troll - a dyed version of the Troll with similar stats as the regular Troll before the change, but lower ATK and range 2 - it also replaces the spiders
• New attack particle effect for the Troll by Fother - dyed version for the Undead Troll
• Deleted all mobs at the entrance of 043-4 and only left the now friendly Trolls there, changed spawn areas - the deeper you go, the more and harder mobs
• Deleted mob spawn places in the paths between
• Increased eA_death and eA_spawn a bit
• Increased Undead Witch's DEX
• Updated 021-3: Corrected monster_id for the Troll and increased their amount now as they are friendly and weaker

My personal opinion:

• There should be a few more mobs though - your wish was to have less, so there are paths where you can rest, but IMO I might have deleted too much
• The Undead Troll should be a bit stronger - please check as warrior at level 60-80 and give me your opinions

Thanks for testing & feedback

[Crazyk8e]

Hehe, the trolls remind me of the ones from Where the Wild Things Are.

[tux9th]

Hehe, the trolls remind me of the ones from Where the Wild Things Are.

thank you very much for this valuable feedback.

[veryape]

I tested it again now.

I must say that I feel that it is ready to go into game. I only tried it as a archer this time.

Lvl 65
str, 1
agi, 57
vit, 15
int, 1
dex, 80
luck,24

I managed to solo the first parts of the cave but as I progressed deeper I had a hard time to stay alive without extensive use of healing items and being on my toes. This is a good thing because I am still in the lower spectra of the intended crowd for this cave.

I would like to see this in game asap, if the mob count / spawn times etc needs to be tweaked it can always be done after it has been in game and we have seen how it plays out when people gang up etc.

And btw, a few ideas for the future, i think that the trolls should drop something that only they drop that could be used as an ingredient / daily quest thing. Troll tails or whatever. I would also love a super rare drop, troll nose-mask.