Re: Re: Please ban meko for sexual harrasment

[Marzon]

SD saw it too and went to check, but she didn't see anything.

Till the time SD could manage to come (I'm not blaming her), Kull had already left, and after his leaving I also logged out immediately to report it in forum. So maybe SD didn't see even me, unless she was in invisible mode.

We as gm's, do this on our free time, we cannot be online 24/7 but we do try our best to be available.

That's why I propose that the accused can be asked if he's guilty.

You have the tools to ignore users built in to your client, use them if we can't help you.

But then he may target others and I'm doing all this for others.

Keep calling us if you are abused, a regular abuser will be found and punished soon enough if you keep reporting him.

If it'll always take 1-2 minutes for a GM to come then it's very difficult to catch this crime which I've seen happening many times: a male sits on another person (female or male) and does love emote. That's why I propose that the accused can be asked if he's guilty till we don't have some more server-side logging/recording features.

[gumi]

This thread is turning into drama for nothing. How for god's sake is it sexual harassment to use love emoticons in a public chat? Would you go to the police and say "that guy sexually harassed me! he did a love emoticon while sitting on my avatar!"... the police officer would laugh at you.
Secondly, since when a heart icon is a sexual aggression? Why would you interpret a heart in such a way? Why would you even think about something sexual in a game for child? Do you perhaps have a perverted mind? A heart represents love, friendship, compassion and happiness; all but harassment. If that emoticon was offensive in any way it wouldn't be in the game. You must be scared like Chocolate Cupcake at valentine's day

[Marzon]

Would you go to the police and say "that guy sexually harassed me! he did a love emoticon while sitting on my avatar!"

GMs and admins please note that meko is admitting that he sat on an avatar and did love emote. That's why I was proposing that just ask him if my allegations are true.

Why would you even think about something sexual in a game for child?

1) Do you admit that you sat on a sitting avatar of a female and when she was moving trying to avoid you, you moved with her, stood at the same location as hers and did love emote and when she sat again, you again sat at the same location as her avatar? Wasn't she trying to avoid you by moving?
(someone also sparkled you or her when you were sitting on her avatar)
2) Weren't you following around the person in this print-screen and you stood at the same location and did love emote and this person did angry emote when you were following him around?
3) Didn't you sat on my avatar, followed me around when I was avoiding you and then when I finally sat, you sat on my avatar and asked if your lap is comfortable?
4) Isn't following people around a nuisance for the people?
5) If it's true that Kull sat on me and did love emote and I told him to get away and he replied "No, Duck you" (it has been starred by the forum), then would you consider that an abuse or not?

[Marzon]

A heart represents love, friendship, compassion and happiness

Then why do make it a point to stand/sit exactly on people's avatars and then use love emoticon? -Even if it means following them around and then standing/sitting on them when they stop and then doing the love emoticon?

"(someone also sparkled you or her when you were sitting on her avatar)" - this was done using healing spell, meko should have immediately got off her when this was happening.

[o11c]

I have campaigned time and time again to make it possible to use screenshots for proof, but time and time again the player community rejects this on privacy grounds (despite the fact that the only people who would have access to these records already have the *ability* (and also the right) to collect more information than what the logs would contain).

If you want to campaign for verifiable chat logs, convince the community (Note: most of the community takes the stance that "just ignore it" is a viable course of action - ignoring the fact that both the behaviour, and the community *defense* of the behavior, are the kind of thing that hurt people).
If you want to make it possible for two mutually agreeing parties to easily chat anonymously (which is a common expectation by the community, despite the fact that they have absolutely no reason to expect it), ask 4144 to implement Diffie-Hellman. (I should probably add a CTCP packet so that these kinds of things can be done more easily).
If you want a greater number of GMs to witness activity, vote for more GMs (Note: as soon as a community member becomes a GM, they immediately become "one of them", and the community no longer sees them as their voice among the GMs).
If you want to get rid of the confusing (GM) tag, contribute to TMW so we can finally kill guildbot.

[Cassy]

I've PMed Cassy, a TMWC member I respect a lot, requesting that GMs should ask the accused in such cases, as till a GM arrives for @wgm call, the abuser may have stopped, as it happened with me.

Btw do you know that GMs are TMWC members as well?
Cause it sounds to me as if TMWC was ranked higher than GMs while actually both are equal

While I dislike some "stranger" sitting on me and doing sexual stuff as much as you do and while I know that situation very well that when you are about to @wgm they already stopped doing so, I can only point at what our orange friends said.
We have fair rules and fair moderators/GMs... I could tell you stories about games with the opposite...

[WildX]

sexual harassment

the identity of the victim

What would you have done if it had been with your sister / mother?

if it would have been a real court then he would have got punished, this is logical. He sexually harasses females as well, this is serious.

Aren't you taking this a bit too seriously? I think someone needs to remind you that there's a big difference between being raped and someone's pile of pixels sitting on your pile of pixels. Chill.

EDIT: Yes, I know this is technically a RP game, but it's far from a game having RP enforced by GMs in the middle of town. If it was a RP issue I would still find it hard to take this seriously TBH. (Not aimed at the GMs, they're doing their job and doing it well)

[veryape]

Since some people have not understood this: No one has been banned just for calling someone a pig, so you can stop trying to use that as an argument for complaints. People are banned for abusive behaviour and such behaviour is not tolerated even if the person has also shown very good behaviour.

You should post a screenshot of the abuse (until we have a chat log) but a screenshot is not proof enough to ban someone, neither are witnesses.

If you are not sure a person's behaviour is abusive, you may contact a GM privately to ask about this. Remember that accusing someone falsely and in public is also a type of abuse.

from viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7808

This has been blown out of proportion, and from what I have heard, sitting on someone doing emotes might be abuse, however calling someone out on the forums for sexual harassment is kind of worse. When i read about sexual harassment allegations i thought that he had done something quite more sinister than just heart emotes etc.

The GMs has voiced their view, there is nothing else to say at this point. I am done in this thread.

[Marzon]

when you are about to @wgm they already stopped doing so

No; I did @wgm, Kull kept sitting for 1-2 minutes even after that with continues love emote and no GM arrived but I don't blame GMs for that.

Cassy what do you say about asking the accused that whether allegations made against him are correct? The (1), (2) and (3) questions I've asked meko in this thread can be asked by a GM and if he admits or doesn't reply then he can be banned / warned (anything) but why everyone here so shy of asking him and also others in future?

[Marzon]

What would you have done if it had been with your sister / mother?

He sexually harasses females as well, this is serious.

Aren't you taking this a bit too seriously? I think someone needs to remind you that there's a big difference between being raped and someone's pile of pixels sitting on your pile of pixels. Chill.

EDIT: Yes, I know this is technically a RP game, but it's far from a game having RP enforced by GMs in the middle of town. If it was a RP issue I would still find it hard to take this seriously TBH. (Not aimed at the GMs, they're doing their job and doing it well)

This is a RP game that's why the punishment I'm proposing is limited to this RP game. If your sister/mother had been in this game and someone followed them around, kept sitting on them and did love emotes while sitting on them then what would you do?

I think someone needs to remind you

Chill.

WildX I always have a clear thought process that's why I'm able to talk logically in this thread. If you don't agree with some logic of mine then argue if you can, if you can't then shut up.

[Cassy]

No; I did @wgm, Kull kept sitting for 1-2 minutes even after that with continues love emote and no GM arrived but I don't blame GMs for that.

Pretty much the same and happened to me too already
That's just bad luck, just hope that next time a GM sees it.

Cassy what do you say about asking the accused that whether allegations made against him are correct? The (1), (2) and (3) questions I've asked meko in this thread can be asked by a GM and if he admits or doesn't reply then he can be banned / warned (anything) but why everyone here so shy of asking him and also others in future?

That's because a thief of course won't answer a police(wo)man "yes" when being asked if he robbed that old lady. That'd be damn stupid

[Marzon]

Since some people have not understood this: No one has been banned just for calling someone a pig, so you can stop trying to use that as an argument for complaints. People are banned for abusive behaviour and such behaviour is not tolerated even if the person has also shown very good behaviour.

How are these lines suitable within the context of this thread?

You should post a screenshot of the abuse (until we have a chat log)

I've done.

but a screenshot is not proof enough to ban someone, neither are witnesses.

That's why I'm proposing to ask the accused.

If you are not sure a person's behaviour is abusive, you may contact a GM privately to ask about this.

Don't you think that the behaviors I've talked about are abusive?

Remember that accusing someone falsely and in public is also a type of abuse.

So meko can be asked whether I'm accusing him falsely?

When i read about sexual harassment allegations i thought that he had done something quite more sinister than just heart emotes etc.

I'll quote what I wrote to meko:

A heart represents love, friendship, compassion and happiness

Then why do make it a point to stand/sit exactly on people's avatars and then use love emoticon? -Even if it means following them around and then standing/sitting on them when they stop and then doing the love emoticon?

"(someone also sparkled you or her when you were sitting on her avatar)" - this was done using healing spell, meko should have immediately got off her when this was happening.

1) Do you admit that you sat on a sitting avatar of a female and when she was moving trying to avoid you, you moved with her, stood at the same location as hers and did love emote and when she sat again, you again sat at the same location as her avatar? Wasn't she trying to avoid you by moving?
(someone also sparkled you or her when you were sitting on her avatar)
2) Weren't you following around the person in this print-screen and you stood at the same location and did love emote and this person did angry emote when you were following him around?
3) Didn't you sat on my avatar, followed me around when I was avoiding you and then when I finally sat, you sat on my avatar and asked if your lap is comfortable?
4) Isn't following people around a nuisance for the people?
5) If it's true that Kull sat on me and did love emote and I told him to get away and he replied "No, **** you" (it has been starred by the forum), then would you consider that an abuse or not?

[Marzon]

That's because a thief of course won't answer a police(wo)man "yes" when being asked if he robbed that old lady. That'd be damn stupid

Thank you Cassy for being someone to answer my proposal. If the accused thinks that he did no wrong then he'll boldly accept like meko did:

Would you go to the police and say "that guy sexually harassed me! he did a love emoticon while sitting on my avatar!"

But if he thinks he did wrong then he may lie and if he's lying then he's at least accepting to himself that what he did was wrong. Agree with me? Also, what's wrong in trying and I've seen in my life people accepting the allegations boldly when they think they did no wrong.

[o11c]

That's because a thief of course won't answer a police(wo)man "yes" when being asked if he robbed that old lady. That'd be damn stupid

You forget that most thieves are exceptionally stupid.

[Kull]

I demand that Marzon be banned for false accusations of sexual harassment, and slander, both of which are illegal. Defamation is illegal.

Also, Duck you Prsm.