The official server flamewar topic

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Platyna
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 04 Mar 2019, 13:49

Well, I do not run "iteration" because it was stolen from me and all traffic was redirected to a stolen copy, so in current state it is pointless, yet still, it is my copy being ran. I am not going to donate anything that was stolen from me. The talk about donation is six years too late. As I said on several occasions, if TMWC-remains would ever repent, they condition is they give back the data and destroy all the unauthorized copies. My decisions were solely on behalf of this project, I worked with people who I didn't like. One of my decisions made, which was good for community, was clear division of powers. They know very well that if project was given back to me no developer would have any rights over the community. And about the community, I see that blatant impertinence has no borders, especially when it comes to WildX who issues me board warnings for nothing while I don't even have the permission to write him back, and wushin, who took the avatar the players made for me and a tittle the TMW community gave to me (sam goes for some Stealing Committee members and acquaintances and the red dress and crown). Looks like no one of you earned any special titles or items, so you had to steal them too. I find this insulting, not only to me but to people who made them for me. Not to mention that, to gain unique title, you need some unique personality :twisted: and some context which you both lack.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by WildX » 04 Mar 2019, 16:17

Sorry if you have trouble private messaging me. It's probably a permissions and forum groups issue and I'll look into fixing that right now. The board warning was for posting flamewars in Player Talk, something you would not have tolerated yourself as forum admin.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 04 Mar 2019, 16:26

Hi Platyna

I don't believe it is six years too late. Six years has allowed for the situation to simplify itself. Frost and o11c are gone without a trace (except maybe stealth alts). Wushin is mostly retired. WildX oscillates back and forth, but is mostly harmless. TMW Platinum iteration is only being run in one place.

Please keep in mind, that while the data was heisted, the domain name is another matter, and did legally belong to Elven, and even if not so nice to do, he can point it where he wishes, and in any case, he donated the domain name to TMW Project, much as I am asking you of the data rights.

They can't just give back or destroy the data, since there are now six years (2013 to 2019) of appended data to it, representing six years of continuing play. That would be the rollback to end all rollbacks, and would kill the game. At that point, TMW Project would be better off starting fresh with a brand new data file, which they would own unconditionally. That would hurt the game too, but less than a six year rollback. If they package a brand new data file with an updated version of the game, that could go over better with the community, and I believe that is their eventual plan with the TMW/Evol fusion server, which will use the more modern Hercules RO emulator, instead of the by now outdated eAthena.

What I am asking, for the good of the game, is to make things how they should have been originally, with a TMW Project 501(c)(3) formally copyright-owning all of the non-GPL aspects, which includes the domain name (which Elven already donated), and the data iteration (Forum databases and Game databases) where the developers work (which I am asking of you to donate the rights). Please, I ask of you to think of what is best for the game; what gives it the best chance to move forward and survive, free of conflict. Don't expect appreciation or accolades from TMWC; that is not the point of it, nor is it within their capacity. Don't get hung up on what they did to you in 2013; it was an injustice, rude, and tragic, but there is no going back, only forward, and we should think of the game, and not expect contrition and humility from those who are incapable of it. What I suggest, to bring everything under the ownership of TMW Project 501(c)(3) is entirely about what is best for the game, and not about what might be fair or pleasant for any of us as individuals. Please consider it on that specific basis. Thanks.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by WildX » 04 Mar 2019, 17:00

I agree with everything you said blackrazor. However, what you suggest would be incompatible with our SPI membership which is infinitely more valuable.

EDIT: I also fixed Platyna's permissions
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 04 Mar 2019, 18:44

@WildX How would it be incompatible with SPI membership?

The TMW Project 501(c)(3) would own just the non-GPL covered portions, specifically the Domain Name and Data, which cannot be GPL, in any case.
The Code (server and client), Art and Scripting assets would remain GPL as before.
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Platyna
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 05 Mar 2019, 00:56

WildX wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 16:17
Sorry if you have trouble private messaging me. It's probably a permissions and forum groups issue and I'll look into fixing that right now. The board warning was for posting flamewars in Player Talk, something you would not have tolerated yourself as forum admin.
You are trying to measure me with your standards and trying to rewrite the history again. I did not post flamewars, and I never smashed other people freedom of speech if it did not went way, way over the border. During my reign you could say a lot more on this forum than you could ever do during TMWC regime. I banned people very rarely, I had such authority I didn't have to use ban hammer often.
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Platyna
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 05 Mar 2019, 01:03

blackrazor wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 16:26
Hi Platyna

I don't believe it is six years too late. Six years has allowed for the situation to simplify itself. Frost and o11c are gone without a trace (except maybe stealth alts). Wushin is mostly retired. WildX oscillates back and forth, but is mostly harmless. TMW Platinum iteration is only being run in one place.

Please keep in mind, that while the data was heisted, the domain name is another matter, and did legally belong to Elven, and even if not so nice to do, he can point it where he wishes, and in any case, he donated the domain name to TMW Project, much as I am asking you of the data rights.

They can't just give back or destroy the data, since there are now six years (2013 to 2019) of appended data to it, representing six years of continuing play. That would be the rollback to end all rollbacks, and would kill the game. At that point, TMW Project would be better off starting fresh with a brand new data file, which they would own unconditionally. That would hurt the game too, but less than a six year rollback. If they package a brand new data file with an updated version of the game, that could go over better with the community, and I believe that is their eventual plan with the TMW/Evol fusion server, which will use the more modern Hercules RO emulator, instead of the by now outdated eAthena.

What I am asking, for the good of the game, is to make things how they should have been originally, with a TMW Project 501(c)(3) formally copyright-owning all of the non-GPL aspects, which includes the domain name (which Elven already donated), and the data iteration (Forum databases and Game databases) where the developers work (which I am asking of you to donate the rights). Please, I ask of you to think of what is best for the game; what gives it the best chance to move forward and survive, free of conflict. Don't expect appreciation or accolades from TMWC; that is not the point of it, nor is it within their capacity. Don't get hung up on what they did to you in 2013; it was an injustice, rude, and tragic, but there is no going back, only forward, and we should think of the game, and not expect contrition and humility from those who are incapable of it. What I suggest, to bring everything under the ownership of TMW Project 501(c)(3) is entirely about what is best for the game, and not about what might be fair or pleasant for any of us as individuals. Please consider it on that specific basis. Thanks.
It doesn't matter how many years passed, and I if they built some US tax exempt project out of my stolen data. Also, this is not going to survive under current regime, so soon there will be nothing to speak about. While I am writing this, there is one GM, three bots and three, what-seems-to-be-players online. They stolen the data and they killed the project I resurrected and curated all these years, which is double offence, not to mention them "swagging" with my titles and items of art players made for me plus banning me for all these years, trying to make me look bad and rewriting the history in a way that would make communist propagandists, behind Iron Curtain, blush. SPI membership? Who cares, it is profitable? To whom? Surely not to potential players. Since you seized the data you care more about power, privileges, titles, smug elitist organisations (you called yourselves "committee", hah!) etc., and then you started to argue on hidden forums over the bone you stole. That's why you failed, like everyone of your kind before you.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by prsm » 05 Mar 2019, 02:12

i will stay away from bad thoughts Platyna

when you got fired, you bragged you had new development, you bragged you had new items, you bragged
you had new hardware. You unbanned banned players, you promised a new item if they played on your server.

You said you didnt need the tmwc .........

I wanna show screen shots, but your servers been dead for years, and i can't.

What changed?

how come we cant use your server posts to prove are point? Failure comes to mind.
How many battle does the tmwc have to win? So far you lost all of them.

Prsm
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
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Platyna
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 05 Mar 2019, 02:51

Prsm:
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by prsm » 05 Mar 2019, 02:54

so you accept your failure! enough said.
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 05 Mar 2019, 05:25

SPI membership grants them some visibility & legitimacy, free services, and free hosting, with absolutely no strings attached.

I am deeply saddened you all remember what was done against you so vividly, as if your persons were the most important thing ever, that you cannot combine your rights and resources into TMW Project's 501(c)(3). I had hoped for better. Maybe in another 6 years ... or 60 ... or 6000. Regardless, I must now pin my hopes on the TMW / Evol Fusion server, with its fresh player databases, that will be properly integrated into TMW Project's 501(c)(3) with full moral legitimacy, and beholden to no individual(s) ever again.

Also, all the art assets are GPL and free to share and use as appropriate. No one did anything improper in that case. The only remaining bone of contention is the non-GPL data files, which hang like a Sword of Damocles, over all our heads. How very unfortunate, indeed.

I am reminded of the 1990 movie Ghost, specifically the Cigarette Ghost trapped in his own personal hell on the train, because he cannot part with his old habits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tCWf4PitbM

As individuals, we lack so much ... Shakespeare said it better than I can, in his version of MacBeth
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by WildX » 05 Mar 2019, 09:20

Platyna wrote:
05 Mar 2019, 00:56
WildX wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 16:17
Sorry if you have trouble private messaging me. It's probably a permissions and forum groups issue and I'll look into fixing that right now. The board warning was for posting flamewars in Player Talk, something you would not have tolerated yourself as forum admin.
You are trying to measure me with your standards and trying to rewrite the history again. I did not post flamewars, and I never smashed other people freedom of speech if it did not went way, way over the border. During my reign you could say a lot more on this forum than you could ever do during TMWC regime. I banned people very rarely, I had such authority I didn't have to use ban hammer often.
I never banned you. In fact, I unbanned you when I became forum admin. How did I ever restrict your freedom of speech? You're so angry at everyone you don't even see no one has actually wronged you since 2013.
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Platyna
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 05 Mar 2019, 22:26

WildX wrote:
05 Mar 2019, 09:20
Platyna wrote:
05 Mar 2019, 00:56
WildX wrote:
04 Mar 2019, 16:17
Sorry if you have trouble private messaging me. It's probably a permissions and forum groups issue and I'll look into fixing that right now. The board warning was for posting flamewars in Player Talk, something you would not have tolerated yourself as forum admin.
You are trying to measure me with your standards and trying to rewrite the history again. I did not post flamewars, and I never smashed other people freedom of speech if it did not went way, way over the border. During my reign you could say a lot more on this forum than you could ever do during TMWC regime. I banned people very rarely, I had such authority I didn't have to use ban hammer often.
I never banned you. In fact, I unbanned you when I became forum admin. How did I ever restrict your freedom of speech? You're so angry at everyone you don't even see no one has actually wronged you since 2013.
I have talked about whole management, not only you.
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Platyna
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 05 Mar 2019, 22:31

blackrazor wrote:
05 Mar 2019, 05:25
SPI membership grants them some visibility & legitimacy, free services, and free hosting, with absolutely no strings attached.

I am deeply saddened you all remember what was done against you so vividly, as if your persons were the most important thing ever, that you cannot combine your rights and resources into TMW Project's 501(c)(3). I had hoped for better. Maybe in another 6 years ... or 60 ... or 6000. Regardless, I must now pin my hopes on the TMW / Evol Fusion server, with its fresh player databases, that will be properly integrated into TMW Project's 501(c)(3) with full moral legitimacy, and beholden to no individual(s) ever again.

Also, all the art assets are GPL and free to share and use as appropriate. No one did anything improper in that case. The only remaining bone of contention is the non-GPL data files, which hang like a Sword of Damocles, over all our heads. How very unfortunate, indeed.

I am reminded of the 1990 movie Ghost, specifically the Cigarette Ghost trapped in his own personal hell on the train, because he cannot part with his old habits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tCWf4PitbM

As individuals, we lack so much ... Shakespeare said it better than I can, in his version of MacBeth
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
You can't steal several years of work from someone and then expect they will forget. Also there were nothing about combining but giving. And nobody cares if they made some US tax exempt project. And TMW does not need any elitist group membership for three players, all three can see it quite well without it. ;-) Shakespeare is overused I prefer Henley:
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
(...)
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by WildX » 06 Mar 2019, 00:43

So, we've all agreed we can't undo the past 6 years of development and hosting and no one on the current team organised the 2013 move. What are we arguing about now? Platyna has no restrictions placed on her, she is welcome to be a part of the community and the dev team if she wants to do some scripting. Idk what else to offer...
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