The official server flamewar topic

Talk about anything, including games and servers not affiliated with The Mana World.
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prsm
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by prsm » 06 Mar 2019, 02:47

so you failed!
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
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nech
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by nech » 06 Mar 2019, 02:48

aaaaaa our queen and savior has arrived

all hail the great borg assimilator

now we'll finally see this show go somewh-

> dns

> unironically trying to convince platyna there is something she doesn't own ever

oh razzy

old buddy chum pal

have I got sixty pages of bad news for you
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 06 Mar 2019, 03:05

prsm wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 02:47
so you failed!
My argument is irrefutable. The only reason you get to GM on stolen property is because Platyna did not consider it worth her time or money to pursue a court case. I wouldn't either. For a deserted 2D game written in a stripped down Ragnarok Online emulator? Seriously? Laughable. Personally, I would prefer she donated her data rights to The Project's 501(c)(3). But seeing how you behave, even today, and certainly in 2013, I don't blame her for going in the direction she did, You reap what you sow, Not that it matters. Game is dead. And no one will pursue their claim. So enjoy GMing in your ill gotten gains. Double LOLs that you chose to steal such a worthless thing. It's like heisting pennies. Whatevs. I LMAO everytime I see a screenshot of you counting to three minutes for someone auto-ing on something that isn't even yours. What a way to spend a life. Free entertainment for me.
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prsm
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by prsm » 06 Mar 2019, 03:14

nope, you cant hold us accountable to something you cant prove, failure, epic failure.

and still no insults, so sad it has come to that. So sad you cant hold your self accountable
to what you want us to account to.

May i suggest rocking the boat on "Angry Birds" or "duke nukem", you seem to be getting schooled here.

and still, no insults here.

Prsm
ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity!
blackrazor
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 06 Mar 2019, 03:18

prsm wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 03:14
nope, you cant hold us accountable to something you cant prove, failure, epic failure.

and still no insults, so sad it has come to that. So sad you cant hold your self accountable
to what you want us to account to.

May i suggest rocking the boat on "Angry Birds" or "duke nukem", you seem to be getting schooled here.

and still, no insults here.

Prsm
Individually those were words. But they don't make much sense the way you string them together. It's like reading bad AI. I think you need a nap.
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prsm
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by prsm » 06 Mar 2019, 03:21

okay, i will take your word on that, bed time for Prsm.

Please feel free to offer proof of ownership via contract or forum post for Platyna while I sleep.

I would never ask you to provide something I could not, like you did to us.

Till tomorrow

Still insult free .....
Prsm
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 06 Mar 2019, 03:42

prsm wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 03:21
okay, i will take your word on that, bed time for Prsm.

Please feel free to offer proof of ownership via contract or forum post for Platyna while I sleep.

I would never ask you to provide something I could not, like you did to us.

Till tomorrow

Still insult free .....
Prsm
Here is the problem. I already did provide a concise, precise argument to explain Platyna's ownership of the data output on Platinum, using the one applicable (and freely available, it so happens) contract that does apply, the GPL. From your response of "show me the GPL contract", you either have no idea what GPL (the license governing the copyleft of TMW) is, or you are trolling. Either way, I cannot help you understand the thing, I can only tell you what it is. It is your own responsibility to get yourself educated on GPL, or go find some free legal-aid lawyer to explain it to you. That is not my job. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
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Freeyorp101
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Freeyorp101 » 06 Mar 2019, 04:43

The agreement under which Platinum Linux Non-profit Servers then hosted the TMW Project can be found on [the internet archive].

Translated, the agreement reads:
Regulations of the platinum.linux.pl server wrote:
Using the server platinum.linux.pl means acceptance of the regulations.

The user agrees to login any of his actions on the server. As well as agreeing to receive letters (email) from the administrator.

The personal data of the user made available to the administrator will not be used for marketing purposes.

The administrator tries to ensure the best possible operation of the server, however, the user accepts the service "as it is", which means that the administrator is not liable for any damage resulting from its non-functioning.

The administrator is not responsible for the content stored by users on their accounts, the liability for the above-mentioned bears only the user / owner of the account.

No abuse of any service on this server.

The administrator defines the word abuse.

The administrator has the right to change these regulations without first informing users about this fact.

The use of this server's services to make life difficult for other network users, post immoral and / or offensive content for any persons or values ​​and is contrary to applicable law is FORBIDDEN.

One session for a given IRC network (IRCNet, EFNet, IFNet etc.). No bots, BNCs, programs interfering with IRC servers and / or platinum server. The IRC client must respond correctly to the CTCP.

All comments, bug reports and other server-related matters are accepted by the administrator only via e-mail, other forms of transmission of this information will be ignored.

The administrator is not a teacher or a nanny. If you want to use this server you must have basic UNIX messages. The system is mostly polonized (including man), so using it should not be a problem, if (and only if) it turns out to be insufficient you can contact the administrator on # Linux-Slackware on IRCNET.

It is also forbidden to any activities aimed at violating the server's security, thus acquiring powers other than those set by the administrator (for experts: exploits, etc.). If you think that it is possible to acquire rights other than those determined immediately, please inform the administrator by email. The breach of server security is also having simple to guess passwords such as: login.data_urodzenia, etc.

Using the account for commercial purposes is not prohibited, provided that the administrator is to be informed of this fact and the nature of the business. This activity must be legal within the meaning of the law in force in Poland, the administrator has the right to refuse to use the account for commercial purposes without giving reasons. If the user derives financial benefits from his account, the administrator counts on giving the platinum.linux.pl server a small part of them in the form of a donation or other, previously agreed with the administrator, material benefits for the project.

Sharing the account with third parties is prohibited.

Unused accounts will be blocked and deleted after some time.

Failure to comply with the above ends, of course, userdel -r.
The most interesting thing about this agreement is "Sharing the account with third parties is prohibited". As dealing with the unfortunately frequent incidents around the TMW Project could not be run by a single admin, Platyna needed to grant special exception for each additional administrator.

This became very relevant late 2009. As I understand it, this was the first time when powers from the hosting role were used to defend actions made under the moderator role. For context, sugarcorgit, a longstanding and prominent member of the community, was critically ill and in intensive care, so many players (and developers) sought to pass on their best wishes. Platyna (with full authority as moderator to do so) decided that these threads, and all duplicates, were to be removed, [with an appropriate thread laying out her rationale for doing so] (eg. PMs could be more appropriate).

This was not a popular decision, but she did have full authority to make that decision. This resulted in many angry comments back and forth, ending with Platyna /ignoring Jaxad, rescinding her approval for bjorn to share the eathena account with Jaxad, and indicating that she would use this clause to ensure that anyone (besides bjorn of course) that disrespected her would no longer be able to act as service administrator.
#themanaworld.chat/2009-10-01.121434+1300NZDT.txt" wrote: [...]
(04:42:24) Platyna: Welcome on my ignore list.
(04:42:26) Platyna: BTW.
(04:42:32) Jaxad0127: you said that last time
(04:42:37) Jaxad0127: and yet you're responding to me
(04:42:49) Jaxad0127: w/e
(04:42:52) Platyna: Server rules decides that if someone is going to share ssh account they has to consult the administrator.
(04:42:58) Jaxad0127: bbl, I have class
(04:42:59) Platyna: And administrator has to accept this person.
(04:43:20) Jaxad0127: you did......
(04:43:20) Platyna: So I do not allow you to access my machine anymore.
(04:43:20) Jaxad0127: why else would I have access
(04:43:20) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: I respect you do not want personally topics on the forums, however, they are in off-topic, and we should not try to control offtopic, futher more, this is important to many people of the community
(04:43:25) Platyna: Kage_Jittai: The discussion about this topic is closed.
(04:43:50) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: ask me this was it spam?
(04:43:54) Platyna: Since you Jaxad0127 are a troll, constantly trying to abuse me, I am not sure if you will not hack my machine or fork bomb it. ;)
(04:43:57) Platyna: So get lost.
(04:44:06) Jaxad0127: ...............
(04:44:18) Platyna: thorbjorn: Remove Jaxad0127's access to my machine please.
(04:44:34) Jaxad0127: bbl (as stated easlier)
(04:44:46) Platyna: thorbjorn: I do not trust him therefore I do not wish him to have access to any of my systems.
(04:45:42) Platyna: Not to mention no one disrespect me, except you thorbjorn, will have the access to my servers.
[...]
(09:11:23) Platyna: ?
(09:11:42) Platyna: thorbjorn: I will. I posted why.
(09:11:58) Platyna: thorbjorn: And I never had hopes you will want to understand my reasoning.
(09:12:05) Platyna: thorbjorn: As you usualy never do.
(09:12:42) Platyna: thorbjorn: And I don't want Jaxad0127 to have access to my servers.
(09:13:00) Platyna: thorbjorn: Hate me or love me, I don't trust him.
(09:13:43) Platyna: thorbjorn: I am tired of you treating me on public like a piece of feces.
(09:14:01) Platyna: Long years ago people would accept my wise decision and bash the troll.
(09:14:15) Platyna: thorbjorn: You are making our community a pokemon cave.
(09:15:07) Platyna: And you people are jackassess, no one remembers when I argued with thorbjorn, who is stubborn like a donkey for sugarcorgit.
(09:15:21) Platyna: It shows how bloody sensitive you are. ;-)
(09:15:23) Platyna: Idiots.
(09:17:39) Bertram: Sounds like I missed a war again. Platyna, you should do that kind of thing in privacy. (Just a piece of advice you will throw away, but I had to say it, at least once.)
(09:18:09) Platyna: In privacy thorbjorn ignores me. ;)
(09:18:13) Platyna: And just gives me orders.
I hope that this helps clarify the then relationship between the host and the project, and how the relationship gave the host leverage in a capacity that is normally unusual for hosts to have over a project.


---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
blackrazor
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 06 Mar 2019, 09:40

@Freeyorp Not really. Your selective pulls are epic. Personally, I cannot be bothered.

Missing from that is proof TMW Project had a standard hosting arrangement with Platinum. It only shows that Platinum did, among other activities, offer standard hosting arrangements. I already typed you a huge 7 point post in this thread, proving that there was a lot more than "merely hosting" from Platyna's part, on Platinum, and you have yet to refute any of it. Where is your contract from back then, clearly showing ownership of data outputs belonging to either Elven, Bjorn, or TMW Project? You would need that, since the data outputs of GPL software are themselves not GPL; they fall under standard copyright. So where are the contracts that any responsible founder or project would have made, clearly outlining their property rights? You have that documentation for the Domain Name (also copyright, not GPL), so why not the Data Outputs?

Why do you need a contract, and Platyna doesn't? I will explain. Briefly. The project is GPL. That already is a contract. It contains default presumptions, including that the data outputs are the property of the person running the software, on a machine under their sole jurisdiction. Platyna can make this claim regarding Platinum, and her TMW activities therein (which are far more than "merely hosting"), you cannot, Elven cannot, Bjorn cannot, The Project (not even a legal entity back then) cannot. They would have needed a copyright contract to override the presumption provided by the GPL contract, that would otherwise apply. So where it is?

It could have been made as a simple thing. Something as follows:
All data outputs from this software, when the software iteration is used by the developers for the software's development, is copyright (Insert either "Elven" or "Bjorn" or "The Project" here), irregardless of who is running the iteration, or the machine upon which is it run. This would include, without limitations, any iterations of this software run under the domain name "themanaworld.org".
You see? Easy peasy lemon squeezy. So where is the contract?
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Platyna
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 06 Mar 2019, 23:04

WildX wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 01:08
No individual owns TMW right now. We already have a similar arrangement as what you suggest. For the last time:
NO INDIVIDUAL PERSON OWNS THE MANA WORLD.
WildX, you fail to understand that, primo: output of GPL'd software is not GPL'd, secundo: the forum and original player files were given to me, and they would be abandoned if I did not accepted them (so, there would be nothing to steal) and tertio: files mentioned in secundo, were copied without my authorization, and this is stealing. I don't think you can contribute anything to this discussion if you fail to comprehend such simple concepts. Persons who had the guts to establish a TE project that relies on stolen data, are worth less than the air they breathe.

Freeyorp, this also stated that the administrator defines abuse, not to mention it also states that the accounts belong to the users and TMW accounts were mine. So you are just doing blatant manipulation. Not to mention you pretend that you don't understand the concept of "giving". TMW was given to me, which means it changed the owner, comprende?
Zuzanna K. Filutowska
[The rest of this signature was censored by TMWC's "Freedom" and "Free speech".]
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 06 Mar 2019, 23:41

MORPG are complex, with a lot of moving parts. Ownership is spread out across these various parts.

1) TMW assets, specifically the code (client and server), art and scripting assets are open source software, registered under GPL copyleft contract.

2) phpBB, the forum software, is also open source software, registered under GPL copyleft contract.

3) The domain name, themanworld.org, was registered to Eugenio Favalli a.k.a. Elvenprogrammer under copyright, and has since been donated to TMW Project 501(c)(3)

4) The output of TMW GPL server software that ran on Platinum is not GPL, as per GPL contract. No formal copyright contract exists to claim the output, so the default condition applies, specifically that the copyright belongs to the person (or organization) running the software on a machine under their sole jurisdiction, which would be Zuzanna K. Filutowska a.k.a. Platyna.

5) The output of phpBB GPL forum software that ran on Platinum is not GPL, as per GPL contract. No formal copyright contract exists to claim the output, so the default condition applies, specifically that the copyright belongs to the person (or organization) running the software on a machine under their sole jurisdiction, which would be Zuzanna K. Filutowska a.k.a. Platyna.

======

In 2013, the output of TMW GPL server software that ran on Platinum was improperly copied by rogue elements, constituting an infringement of copyright against the legitimate owner, Zuzanna K. Filutowska a.k.a. Platyna, and have been used on this site, to this day, in a manner inconsistent with copyright law.

In 2013, the output of phpBB GPL forum software that ran on Platinum was improperly copied by rogue elements, constituting an infringement of copyright against the legitimate owner, Zuzanna K. Filutowska a.k.a. Platyna, and have been used on this site, to this day, in a manner inconsistent with copyright law.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Freeyorp101 » 07 Mar 2019, 02:03

Oh, I think I finally understand!

By way of example, ircd@ was made directly by Platyna, so even though I was given shared access by similar special exception for account sharing, it would absolutely have been wrong to eg. copy ircd config and services registration database, because ircd account was not owned by TMW even though official channels were there. ircd@ was owned by Platyna. Nobody from the TMW Project pressed me to copy anything there, nor would I have done so if I had been asked. So TMW just moved their official IRC channels back to be on Freenode.

Would it be fair to say you believed that eathena@ was similarly registered to Platyna?

eathena@ was registered to bjorn, and if I remember correctly, testing@ was registered to me, and dev@ was registered to Bertram. Also if I remember correctly, I don't believe Bertram could be contacted about the move, so dev@ stayed on platinum.

If the account was not registered to bjorn, I don't really see why he would be immune to rescinding authorisation under the no-account-sharing provision, nor how he could have legitimately removed Platyna's access to eathena@ without uproar. If I had done that to ircd@ I would surely expect new iptables rules to be added to platinum servers. In any case, it is clear enough that in 2009, when Platyna declared that she no longer wished to host the project, that she expected the eathena files and forums to go with bjorn.

blackrazor wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 09:40
It only shows that Platinum did, among other activities, offer standard hosting arrangements
I'm glad we agree that Platinum did in general offer hosting, and that the posted terms of service accurately reflect that. So looking at the chain as a whole:

- [X] Platinum Linux Non-profit Servers provided hosting in general
- [X] Platinum Linux Non-profit Servers provided hosting for eathena@ in particular
- [ ] Regulations of Platinum Linux Non-profit Server apply to eathena@
- [ ] eathena@ account was owned by bjorn, with case-by-base provision for account sharing with others that could be rescinded by Platyna
- [X] Regulations of Platinum Linux Non-profit Server state that "The administrator is not responsible for the content stored by users on their accounts, the liability for the above-mentioned bears only the user / owner of the account."
- [X] bjorn (among others) authorized the move
- [ ] Files that were on eathena@ are now owned by TMWC

Would you agree the checked boxes are an accurate summary of what we have built consensus over so far?

blackrazor wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 09:40
Your selective pulls are epic.
I have done my best to avoid reference to emotionally charged events for the sake of epistemic hygiene, and was mostly able to do so for the past six years. Unfortunately, it is in the most combative times that powers are unsheathed and relationships are thrown into their sharpest relief, so if we must go there, so be it. I tried.

I've attached the full log within a spoiler. I do ask everything to think twice and then to think twice again before opening, because there really are some quite nasty things in here. Remember that even John Lennon had record for domestic violence. Life is a series of trials to make us kinder people, and the internet preserving us as we grow is a relatively recent development. We must remember those we respect as they were at their best, or else be left with no role models at all.
Spoiler:
#themanaworld.chat/2009-10-01.121434+1300NZDT.txt wrote: Conversation with #themanaworld at Thu 01 Oct 2009 12:14:34 NZDT on Freeyorp@irc.freenode.net (irc)
(12:14:34) #themanaworld: The topic for #themanaworld is: The Mana World MMORPG - http://themanaworld.org - Please speak English
(12:24:11) Modanung left the room.
(12:31:06) kai_62656 [n=kai_6265@68-113-43-45.dhcp.crsn.ca.charter.com] entered the room.
(12:46:21) MadCamel1: yes.
(12:46:58) MadCamel1: Jaxad0127: could you add the analyze.php and other scripts to one of the repos?
(12:50:01) MadCamel1: go kids go!
(12:50:28) Jaxad0127: analyze is in the client repo
(12:50:31) Jaxad0127: under tools
(12:50:34) Jaxad0127: what else?
(12:51:38) MeaCulpa [n=MeaCulpa@116.224.134.52] entered the room.
(12:55:11) compiledkernel [n=compiled@99-10-224-70.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] entered the room.
(12:58:37) BaseBallBoy: jaxad i had an idea for botcheck when GMs are reinstated: http://pastebin.com/m2b7d454c
(12:58:56) BaseBallBoy: so they dont have to waste more time spawning
(13:00:03) Jaxad0127: ask the GMs
(13:00:04) Jaxad0127: not me
(13:00:11) BaseBallBoy: ask them what?
(13:00:47) Jaxad0127: about it
(13:00:52) BaseBallBoy: ok
(13:03:32) {41444d494e} [n=kvirc@93.85.56.211] entered the room.
(13:04:34) LinuxDonald is now known as LinDon|afk
(13:07:02) MadCamel1 left the room (quit: "Leaving.").
(13:07:42) LinDon|afk is now known as LinuxDonald
(13:26:36) Shown left the room (quit: ).
(13:26:56) majlik left the room (quit: Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
(13:35:15) wombatism1: http://kanyelicious.appspot.com/http:// ... aworld.org
(13:41:35) wombatism1: BaseBallBoy: you could get back to making pixelart and scripting quests
(13:42:57) wombatism1: maybe make more snowland monsters and quests?
(13:43:24) wombatism1: I dunno
(13:43:27) Galadriel1 [n=bob@ip216-239-67-112.vif.net] entered the room.
(13:43:28) BaseBallBoy: im not a very good pixeler...
(13:43:54) wombatism1: I'm gonna work on some quests myself
(13:44:08) wombatism1: I too am not a good pixelartist
(13:44:30) Galadriel1: a general comment about the 4144 patch
(13:44:30) wombatism1: okay Galadriel1
(13:44:40) Galadriel1: problems are solved when the .tmw folder in /home is renamed and the game is restarted
(13:44:58) Galadriel1: :) from... personal experience
(13:45:08) ***Galadriel1 rolls eyes
(13:45:18) wombatism1: what makes it different than the quol patch?
(13:45:33) Galadriel1: wow. lots
(13:45:37) wombatism1: I don't experiment with my client
(13:45:42) Galadriel1: drops can be like a carpet
(13:45:42) MrDudle: snowland monsters?
(13:45:43) wombatism1: just curious though
(13:45:52) Galadriel1: spells (i don't use) are automatic
(13:45:52) MrDudle: hmmm
(13:45:59) Galadriel1: here...
(13:46:01) wombatism1: MrDudle: there is the yeti that someone is working on
(13:46:01) MrDudle: wombatism1: how big are monsters typically px wise
(13:46:10) wombatism1: not very big
(13:46:11) Galadriel1: if you click a name in the OnLine list, it auto-opens a chat tab
(13:46:20) MrDudle: wombatism1: :S
(13:46:36) Galadriel1: pressing F in standard 0.29 shows purple blocks
(13:46:42) Galadriel1: those blocks we can't stand on
(13:47:01) MrDudle: Galadriel1: do you know big a typical pixel creature is
(13:47:05) Galadriel1: pressing F again removes all trees that block the view to fallen herbs
(13:47:17) Galadriel1: another nice feature
(13:47:19) doorsman left the room (quit: "E=MC2 to eternity").
(13:47:26) doorsman [n=doorsman@unaffiliated/doorsman] entered the room.
(13:47:27) Galadriel1: there are too many to mention
(13:47:42) wombatism1: http://updates.themanaworld.org/tmwdata ... s/sprites/
(13:47:50) MrDudle: ty
(13:47:59) Galadriel1: MrDudle: i do not, sorry
(13:48:45) MrDudle: wombatism1: so do i need to code the pixel monsters in xml
(13:48:53) MrDudle: or do i do it in a picture program
(13:49:04) wombatism1: you could...but most pixelartists receive help with xml
(13:49:10) MrDudle: k
(13:49:18) MrDudle: so i could do the actual pixel part and then get help with xml
(13:49:42) wombatism1: yeah...but in order for it to be accepted, a dev would have to push it
(13:49:59) wombatism1: at least for the official server
(13:51:24) MrDudle: k
(13:51:54) wombatism1: if you have the capability to run your own unofficial server with updates server, you could do that yourself. TAW does that
(13:52:38) MrDudle: k
(13:54:06) wombatism1: http://www.thealternateworld.org/ always use a different password on unofficial servers.
(13:55:09) wombatism1: Galadriel1: sounds interesting...but not something I'd want to play with unless it was an official client.
(14:02:24) DryGrain left the room (quit: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
(14:06:10) Galadriel1: :)
(14:06:59) Freeyorp: in the latest git, drops are drawn transparently over tiles that would otherwise block the view
(14:07:26) kai_62656 left the room (quit: "*poof*").
(14:25:26) wombatism1: are we gathering at tulimshar?
(14:29:27) wombatism1: we are already halfway owning each other in the arena
(14:31:32) Kage_Jittai: Freeyorp: you coming?
(14:31:38) Freeyorp: One sec
(14:31:38) Cecil_Burrow [n=kevin@207-229-186-45.c3-0.lem-ubr1.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com] entered the room.
(14:35:45) rhaeder left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(14:39:38) Cecil_Burrow left the room (quit: "Ex-Chat").
(14:48:56) doorsman left the room (quit: "E=MC2 to eternity").
(15:14:54) Kage_Jittai left the room (quit: "Konversation terminated!").
(15:15:26) LinuxDonald is now known as LinDon|afk
(15:17:36) _prg_ [n=prg@unaffiliated/prg] entered the room.
(15:24:23) wombatism1: kimbo!
(15:24:23) wombatism1: good game in pvp...mages totally pwned all
(15:26:08) Freeyorp: I killed a lot, and got killed a lot. I also happy-cursed a lot :D
(15:27:44) Fother [n=jarrett@pool-71-180-127-110.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] entered the room.
(15:30:48) Freeyorp: Would be nice to have a PvP ladder tournament, or something
(15:31:45) Freeyorp: Might be doable with onPCKillEvent and onPCDieEvent
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(15:42:55) wombatism1: I've got some tournament guidelines from some previous pvp events...doing a ladder with it would be cool...however I developed it before mages, so there might need to be some serious changes to them
(15:43:10) wombatism1: mages might even need their own ladder
(15:43:25) wombatism1: a lightning bolt or two is devistating
(15:44:01) Freeyorp: Well, we could see what the results are from such an event first
(15:44:17) Freeyorp: (Though PvE balancing comes first, I think.)
(15:44:54) wombatism1: yeah
(15:45:37) wombatism1: though once a pvp balance happens, it would make things a lot more interesting for pvp...a lot of the time if the character has the right balance, it is either all 1's or crit hit killing in a few strikes
(15:46:08) wombatism1: and mages still own a lot
(15:46:25) wombatism1: "magic" armor would be good for a warrior if it added some m.defence
(15:47:07) Freeyorp: I suspect many 'conventional' PvP builds still have Int set to 1, hence no M. defence
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(16:03:26) wombatism1: boo! Kimbo lost against big cuntree
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(16:20:16) wombatism1: is this rumor correct: everytime a jacko kills someone, it gets stronger
(16:21:17) Freeyorp: No
(16:21:25) wombatism1: I thought so
(16:21:34) wombatism1: that would be sweeet if it were true
(16:22:12) Freeyorp: There is something similar planned for something else, though ;)
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(17:04:13) Anonycat: does any amount of INT even add to M. Defense right now?
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(17:51:09) Freeyorp: Back, and yes, it does
(17:51:22) Ceros_: wb
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(21:23:07) thorbjorn: Jaxad0127: I will reinstate the GMs as soon as we have had a chance to agree on some changes to the guidelines.
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(00:29:46) turmfalke: Jaxad0127: did you updated the eA server?
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(02:14:32) Jaxad0127: turmfalke: no...
(02:15:03) turmfalke: means there is still the trade bug?
(02:15:14) Jaxad0127: yeah
(02:15:24) Jaxad0127: updating eA requires a content release
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(02:28:03) turmfalke: lol..
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(02:54:10) meway: any word on sugar?
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(03:00:14) Kage_Jittai: meway: last I heard, it was not cancer but she will still require surgery
(03:02:05) meway: its good that its not cancer
(03:02:15) meway: kage what dose GPL stand for?
(03:03:21) meway: i suppose i could google it i figured someone here would wiki to me cough (...)
(03:03:25) turmfalke_: General Public License
(03:03:34) meway: lol thx turmfalke_
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(03:26:08) Platyna: Yawn.
(03:26:21) kai_62656: ;P
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(03:28:00) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: did you delete the sugarcorgit thread?
(03:40:13) Jaxad0127: which of the three are you referring to?
(03:40:26) Kage_Jittai: the one in off topic
(03:40:51) Jaxad0127: all three were
(03:40:52) Jaxad0127: see: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =12&t=8446
(03:41:32) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: your a female dog, wolf, fox or otter, go away
(03:43:29) Platyna: :o)
(03:43:39) Platyna: Mine what?
(03:43:40) Platyna: ;)
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(03:44:40) arikel: jax : how do you update the server and server data? if you don't remember, i'm trying to set up a eathena server home, and all works except the map server
(03:45:10) Jaxad0127: git pull both of them
(03:45:15) Jaxad0127: then recompile, etc
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(04:25:30) Platyna: Yaaaawn.
(04:28:28) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: keep it up, and it won't be yours much longer
(04:28:39) Platyna: Keep what up?
(04:28:40) Platyna: ;]
(04:28:56) Kage_Jittai: the bullshitting
(04:29:27) Platyna: Look, you don't like my decision, well you have a right to STFU then.
(04:29:28) Platyna: ;-)
(04:30:29) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: don't forget, it was this community who provided you with your harddrive
(04:31:07) Platyna: And I am very grateful, but it doesn't mean that my thoughts are for sale.
(04:31:08) Platyna: ;)
(04:31:18) Platyna: I provided this community hosting for 4+ years.
(04:31:21) Platyna: So we are even.
(04:31:50) Kage_Jittai: doesn't mean you have the right to try to destroy the community
(04:31:55) Platyna: Without me arguing with Bjorn you wouldn't even have a forum.
(04:32:00) Platyna: Since they said it is useless.
(04:32:14) Platyna: Actually such people like you are destroying the community.
(04:32:30) Platyna: Community was successful and growing without pokemons and teary drama topics.
(04:32:39) Platyna: And with people who could respect moderators decisions.
(04:33:03) Kage_Jittai: w/e
(04:33:09) Platyna: Such people like you loves badwagon.
(04:33:38) Platyna: You think that arguing with me over pointless thing even if I stated rational and well thought arguments will make you a noble defender of sweet sugarcorgit?
(04:33:40) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: next pay check I get, I am asking thorbjorn if we can move our forums hosting elsewhere, Ill pay for it
(04:33:56) Platyna: Evenif sugarcorgit would die in horrible pain, after 3 months no one would remember.
(04:34:11) Platyna: This is god damn Internet, facet it and stop pretending someone you are not.
(04:34:12) Kage_Jittai: I disagree
(04:34:26) Kage_Jittai: I still remember lilo
(04:34:35) Platyna: Life goes on.
(04:34:40) Kage_Jittai: and he died what? 3 years ago
(04:34:47) Platyna: Yeah and how well you knew him?
(04:34:55) Kage_Jittai: not very well
(04:35:09) Kage_Jittai: I spoke with him maybe 5 times
(04:35:12) Platyna: And I have like 10 mbytes of logsfrom conversations with him.
(04:35:15) Platyna: So STFU.
(04:35:36) Platyna: I am now busy updating the server, make own forums and move the drama topics there.
(04:35:51) Platyna: I stated my rational behind my decision and it should be respected, even if you disagree with me.
(04:36:13) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: Free software is more about community then anything else
(04:36:16) Platyna: Not to pop here up in hope I will cry you a river when TMW hosting will be moved elsewhere or when you call me a female dog, wolf, fox or otter.
(04:36:26) Platyna: In fact I wanted to stop host TMW.
(04:36:37) Platyna: I am still doing it only because of community voice.
(04:36:45) Platyna: And you donated something to the server?
(04:36:47) Platyna: Rather not.
(04:36:59) Platyna: You actualy contributed nothing to this project besides of mindless yapping.
(04:37:15) Platyna: I have basicaly built that community from scratch.
(04:37:25) Jaxad0127: he's been deving
(04:37:27) Platyna: When I came we had barely functional server and 5 people in peak online.
(04:37:36) Jaxad0127: and you fixed that?
(04:37:44) Platyna: And we had forums full of spam, and server who was a month down and admin who couldn't be contacted.
(04:37:52) Platyna: Jaxad0127: Yes, I did.
(04:38:17) Jaxad0127: so, only you worked on the client and server? w/e
(04:38:28) Platyna: I was a server admin and only scripts developer like 3 years before you came to be a smartass.
(04:38:44) Platyna: At least when I was handling eathena it wasn't crashing every hour. ;-)
(04:38:58) Jaxad0127: um.........
(04:39:11) Jaxad0127: you were the one that kept deleting content
(04:39:20) Platyna: Huuuuh?
(04:39:37) Platyna: Jaxad0127: I am sorry you are in this project.
(04:40:00) Jaxad0127: like the time you deleted every npc in server data
(04:40:08) Platyna: You are actualy more active writing feces on forums and IRC than actualy coding tmwserv.
(04:40:12) Platyna: Which was your first purpose.
(04:40:24) Jaxad0127: no it wasn't
(04:40:30) Platyna: I did not deleted any NPC. ;)
(04:40:32) Platyna: It was.
(04:40:37) Platyna: You were supposed to handle it.
(04:40:50) Platyna: I remember your brilliant declaration we will finish tmwserver in a year.
(04:40:51) Jaxad0127: nope
(04:40:56) Jaxad0127: I was brout on to handle content
(04:41:00) Jaxad0127: *brought
(04:41:20) Platyna: Anyway you are wasting my time.
(04:41:20) Jaxad0127: when did I say tmwserv will be finishe din one year?
(04:41:21) Jaxad0127: *finished in
(04:41:22) Platyna: The time I could actualy use to do something useful for TMW.
(04:41:27) Jaxad0127: and you did delete the NPCs
(04:41:36) Jaxad0127: you're wasting my time too ;)
(04:41:59) Platyna: You do nothing else in your life than wasting your time.
(04:42:09) Jaxad0127: that made no sense
(04:42:24) Platyna: Welcome on my ignore list.
(04:42:26) Platyna: BTW.
(04:42:32) Jaxad0127: you said that last time
(04:42:37) Jaxad0127: and yet you're responding to me
(04:42:49) Jaxad0127: w/e
(04:42:52) Platyna: Server rules decides that if someone is going to share ssh account they has to consult the administrator.
(04:42:58) Jaxad0127: bbl, I have class
(04:42:59) Platyna: And administrator has to accept this person.
(04:43:20) Jaxad0127: you did......
(04:43:20) Platyna: So I do not allow you to access my machine anymore.
(04:43:20) Jaxad0127: why else would I have access
(04:43:20) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: I respect you do not want personally topics on the forums, however, they are in off-topic, and we should not try to control offtopic, futher more, this is important to many people of the community
(04:43:25) Platyna: Kage_Jittai: The discussion about this topic is closed.
(04:43:50) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: ask me this was it spam?
(04:43:54) Platyna: Since you Jaxad0127 are a troll, constantly trying to abuse me, I am not sure if you will not hack my machine or fork bomb it. ;)
(04:43:57) Platyna: So get lost.
(04:44:06) Jaxad0127: ...............
(04:44:18) Platyna: thorbjorn: Remove Jaxad0127's access to my machine please.
(04:44:34) Jaxad0127: bbl (as stated easlier)
(04:44:46) Platyna: thorbjorn: I do not trust him therefore I do not wish him to have access to any of my systems.
(04:45:42) Platyna: Not to mention no one disrespect me, except you thorbjorn, will have the access to my servers.
(04:46:10) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: your going to die a lonely death
(04:46:40) Platyna: Everyone is alone in their final hour.
(04:46:41) Platyna: ;)
(04:47:05) compiledkernel: Kage_Jittai: thats only because God...er...well...yes...God plays on a audience too afraid to laugh at her jokes, or even want to try to understand them.
(04:47:14) compiledkernel: <yawn>
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(04:54:39) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: you know your feces stinks as much as anyone's else
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(04:56:11) turmfalke_: o_0
(04:56:50) turmfalke_: why can't you get along with each other and try to discuss without cursewords or other attacks?
(04:56:51) compiledkernel: Kage_Jittai: You should know that the secret to being boring , is to say everything. That has certainly been the case here.
(04:58:07) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: the only reason why you can't stand the post about sugarcorgit, is that someone else is getting attention and sympathy, and your a god damn sociopath
(04:58:24) turmfalke_: umpf..
(04:58:33) ***kai_62656 agrees with Kage_Jittai
(04:59:52) ***wombatism1 agrees w/ turmfalke_
(05:00:01) turmfalke_: Kage_Jittai: and what do you gain from calling Platyna a sociopath?
(05:00:23) ***MaienM sighs and thinks people here should behave as adults instead of 8 yr olds
(05:00:31) ***kai_62656 sigh
(05:00:43) Kage_Jittai: turmfalke_: it is what she is
(05:00:54) turmfalke_: and does that changes anything?
(05:01:09) turmfalke_: or do you think you told her something you with that?
(05:01:29) turmfalke_: *new
(05:01:49) turmfalke_: after all a sociopath is still a human
(05:01:54) kai_62656: lol
(05:02:02) compiledkernel: Kage_Jittai: Id have to disaggree with you. A sociopath feels feelings , even if only utterly cynical to themselves, and has no remorse for their actions. While this may be true in this case, I think the person in quesiotn is more guilty of Dissociative aspects of such a disoder.
(05:02:04) turmfalke_: and there are worse things when beeing a sociopath
(05:02:17) Kage_Jittai: turmfalke_: no, I honestly thinks she needs therapy
(05:02:34) compiledkernel: DPD is quite a bit worse than being an outright Sociopath
(05:02:40) turmfalke_: and you think she will take one cause you called her a sociopath?
(05:03:35) compiledkernel: and commonly involves Psychotic behaviours, or actually full breaks with reality.
(05:04:46) turmfalke_: Kage_Jittai: for me it looks like your only intention was to hurt her and as we know Platyna she won't break from something like that
(05:05:22) Kage_Jittai: turmfalke_: when I was diagnosed with being boredline personality disorder, I was quite happy because I was able to get therapy for it. For someone else also suffering from a personality disorder, I would advise her to get help.
(05:06:06) turmfalke_: then do it in a more friendly way and not in the middle of a discussion
(05:07:06) thorbjorn: Platyna: Please stop deleting posts about sugarcorgit.
(05:09:35) kai_62656: yes
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(05:11:09) Kage_Jittai: I need a swim
(05:11:10) Kage_Jittai: BBL
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(05:51:02) wombatism1: is there a reason the mouboo death animation is different? On my computer, the eyes spin around, on my cousin's the mouboo spins its entire body in a circle.
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(05:52:01) Jaxad0127: he must have customdata
(05:52:12) Jaxad0127: as tmwdata has spinning eyes
(05:52:44) wombatism1: it was a new download off the main site because he had to fix his os
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(05:53:30) Jaxad0127: so?
(05:53:37) wombatism1: so it isn't custom
(05:53:45) Jaxad0127: unless his .tmw directory had to be rebuilt, he could still have customdata
(05:53:52) Jaxad0127: did it download updates?
(05:53:57) wombatism1: yes
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(05:54:30) Jaxad0127: comp info?
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(05:56:36) wombatism1: he doesn't know
(05:56:47) wombatism1: I'll get back with you on that one
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(08:25:21) meway: wtf?
(08:26:00) meway: Kage_Jittai: whats up? ^
(08:26:14) Kage_Jittai: ?
(08:26:20) doorsman: 1we should ask you that question meway
(08:26:20) meway: platyna deleted what?
(08:26:32) Jaxad0127: plenty of things from the forums
(08:26:38) doorsman: <meway> wtf? < whats up
(08:26:43) Jaxad0127: mostly stuff that disagrees with her
(08:26:51) meway: doorsman?
(08:26:58) meway: english plz...
(08:27:00) doorsman: meway : feel free to ask Platyna herself
(08:27:16) doorsman: sry, i dont speak ingles very well
(08:27:17) meway: platyna wtf!? (better doors?)
(08:27:25) meway: lol
(08:27:38) doorsman: wait for her to answer, you'll see if its better
(08:27:46) ***doorsman ducks and runs
(08:28:04) ***Kage_Jittai kisses meway good bye then joins doorsman
(08:28:09) ***meway o.0 hides behind doors
(08:28:25) doorsman: lol Kage_Jittai
(08:28:31) doorsman: nice one :P
(08:28:55) doorsman: im already hiding meway, dont try to hide behind me
(08:29:12) ***Jaxad0127 uses the invisibility cloak
(08:29:33) ***meway hops on his server and @invisable
(08:30:11) meway: this command dose not work for some reason XD better check the spelling
(08:30:24) doorsman: invisable ?
(08:30:36) doorsman: and you were asking me to talk english ?
(08:30:40) doorsman: rofl
(08:30:51) meway: lol mine is not as good as yours 0.o rofl
(08:31:09) doorsman: we are all witnesses of that meway ^^
(08:31:27) meway: c(=
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(08:34:07) meway: ahh katze quiter
(08:34:25) meway: lol jk
(08:35:03) meway: so anymore word on sugar?
(08:35:28) meway: or just that its not cancer
(08:36:15) Jaxad0127: that's all I've heard
(08:36:27) meway: k
(08:37:29) meway: working on some icon ideas for the magic thing i dont know if they will be relevent.
(08:39:56) meway: i cant find that were was it at? anyone have an idea just off hand
(08:40:36) Jaxad0127: which one?
(08:40:46) meway: skill window
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(08:45:12) Acegi: Actually speaking of icon ideas
(08:45:29) Acegi: How about one for when slow healing (food, items, spells)
(08:45:32) Jaxad0127: meway: forums
(08:45:37) Jaxad0127: Acegi: go ahead
(08:46:08) Acegi: Oh I was just suggesting it lol haven't thought about what they might be.
(08:46:19) Acegi: I think you knew that though.
(08:46:30) Jaxad0127: meway: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8265
(08:47:04) meway: tx Jaxad0127
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(09:11:23) Platyna: ?
(09:11:42) Platyna: thorbjorn: I will. I posted why.
(09:11:58) Platyna: thorbjorn: And I never had hopes you will want to understand my reasoning.
(09:12:05) Platyna: thorbjorn: As you usualy never do.
(09:12:42) Platyna: thorbjorn: And I don't want Jaxad0127 to have access to my servers.
(09:13:00) Platyna: thorbjorn: Hate me or love me, I don't trust him.
(09:13:43) Platyna: thorbjorn: I am tired of you treating me on public like a piece of feces.
(09:14:01) Platyna: Long years ago people would accept my wise decision and bash the troll.
(09:14:15) Platyna: thorbjorn: You are making our community a pokemon cave.
(09:15:07) Platyna: And you people are jackassess, no one remembers when I argued with thorbjorn, who is stubborn like a donkey for sugarcorgit.
(09:15:21) Platyna: It shows how bloody sensitive you are. ;-)
(09:15:23) Platyna: Idiots.
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(09:17:39) Bertram: Sounds like I missed a war again. Platyna, you should do that kind of thing in privacy. (Just a piece of advice you will throw away, but I had to say it, at least once.)
(09:18:09) Platyna: In privacy thorbjorn ignores me. ;)
(09:18:13) Platyna: And just gives me orders.
(09:18:40) Platyna: Anyway screw it. The only real problem I have now is this:
(09:18:41) Platyna: boadicea:/home/platyna$ glxinfo | grep direct
(09:18:41) Platyna: direct rendering: No (If you want to find out why, try setting LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose)
(09:18:58) Platyna: And then when I solve it, I am back to play Regnum Online.
(09:19:12) Platyna: At least there are no ungrateful jackassess telling me how to do the job I did 4 years.
(09:19:27) Bertram: Platyna: I wouldn't
(09:19:41) Bertram: Even being sysadmin myself...
(09:19:55) Platyna: And emo children complaining that they can't weep on public RPG GAME forum after some person they don't even really know.
(09:19:59) Bertram: You sure are better than me, anyway.
(09:20:20) Bertram: the stroke thread, isn' it?
(09:20:25) Platyna: Being sysadmin is not measurable, untill you are completly pathetic.
(09:20:38) Bertram: Well, then I must be ;)
(09:20:40) Platyna: So if you do your job that everything works, you are as good.
(09:20:50) Bertram: or lucky ;)
(09:21:05) Platyna: I do not want to hear flattery, untill someone acts like thorbjorn and his little helpers.
(09:22:28) Bertram: My job is to run after other's mistake, but anyway, I'm not here to flatter. I'm here to try to, well, in fact, I don't know myself...
(09:22:50) Platyna: "[drm] Failed to open DRM device for : No such file or directory"
(09:22:50) Platyna: For christ sake I bloody hate udev and hal.
(09:22:58) Bertram: Acess or file not there...
(09:23:13) Platyna: Yeah.
(09:23:55) Bertram: weird anyway. Shouldn't be that hard to use a drm file, even for udev.
(09:24:05) Bertram: How did the problem happen?
(09:24:46) Platyna: If I knew I would fix it.
(09:24:58) Bertram: an upgrade?
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(09:25:26) Platyna: Newest OS>
(09:25:45) Bertram: ah. Ubuntu or something hotter? ;)
(09:25:53) Platyna: Slackware 13.0
(09:25:56) Platyna: Which sux ass.
(09:26:34) Bertram: Slackware. Ok, we're not gonna sleep before hours ;D
(09:27:05) Platyna: 12.2 worked fine.
(09:28:18) Bertram: What is your video card?
(09:29:34) Bertram: have you installed this package: libgl1-mesa-dri ?
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(09:31:18) Platyna: intel.
(09:31:20) Platyna: Yes Bertram.
(09:31:30) Platyna: I know you are one of old nice people here and you want to help me.
(09:31:40) Platyna: But for christ sake. I would check this stuff first. :P
(09:31:46) Bertram: Thanks for the "old" nice
(09:32:44) Bertram: Platyna: Never be just behind an admin when (s)he's taking his/her coffee, or trying to resolve a problem, eh.
(09:37:45) Jaxad0127: 20:12 < Platyna> thorbjorn: I am tired of you treating me on public like a piece of feces.
(09:37:51) Jaxad0127: we're tired of that treatment from you
(09:38:39) Bertram: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/i915_dri.so failed <- have you got this?
(09:44:07) Bertram: Damn evening.
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(10:07:15) thorbjorn: I don't recall threatening Platyna.
(10:13:28) Bertram: thorbjorn: <Platyna> thorbjorn: I will. I posted why.
(10:14:21) thorbjorn: Well I have no time for that now.
(10:14:24) Bertram: Got no other clue... :/
(10:14:45) Bertram: I understand.
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(12:45:27) Platyna: Rawrrr.
(12:46:09) Platyna: thorbjorn: treating and threating are two different words. ;.
(12:46:22) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: are you a sociopath?
(12:46:27) Kage_Jittai: if so, please get help
(12:46:29) Platyna: Yes.
(12:46:29) Kage_Jittai: quickly
(12:46:32) Platyna: No.
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(12:46:40) Platyna: I love me being a sociopath.
(12:47:04) Kage_Jittai: life for you can be so much better though
(12:47:18) Kage_Jittai: imagine, people actually liking you
(12:47:21) Platyna: I prefer a sociopath than some emo being pissed that he can't weep on online gaming forum.
(12:47:40) Platyna: And if you actualy had a life you wouldn't sit here all day and look to harass me.
(12:47:48) Platyna: In fact I am mistress of not caring. ;-)
(12:48:09) Jaxad0127: you're the one that always starts teh harassment
(12:48:15) Platyna: In 2 minutes I will download what I am downloading and guess what?
(12:48:37) Platyna: I know you think it is impossible but I will not use irc for like 2 hours.
(12:48:48) Platyna: 01:27 seconds
(12:49:32) Platyna: And BTW Kage_Jittai, actualy people were demanding me to be a moderator and a GM again. So looks they love sociopaths.
(12:49:32) Platyna: Mwahaha.
(12:49:54) Platyna: 11 seconds
(12:49:56) Kage_Jittai: I thought you didn't want to be a moderator / GM?
(12:50:03) BaseBallBoy1: Bye P!
(12:50:04) BaseBallBoy1: =P
(12:50:06) Platyna: Hooray.
(12:50:31) Platyna: Kage_Jittai: I loved it. However thorbjorn since about a year knows everythingbetter about community management. ;)
(12:50:34) Platyna: Adios.
(12:52:20) thorbjorn: I've always known things better, of course.
(12:52:52) salmondine: really platyna, sugar is in intensive care
(12:53:55) BaseBallBoy1: thorbjorn FTW! =P
(12:53:56) salmondine: not like we have 10,000 people playing
(12:54:45) salmondine: we are a close group, I talked to dave on phone yesterday
(12:55:01) salmondine: I was appalled that forum post was deleted
(12:55:54) salmondine: hey its your forum, we did start a new one where this can be discussed
(12:57:07) salmondine: http:grou.ps/players_of_the_mana_world
(12:58:07) thorbjorn: Hmm, not connecting here.
(12:58:34) Kage_Jittai: http://grou.ps/players_of_the_mana_world/home
(12:58:48) salmondine: yes sorry
(12:59:04) Kage_Jittai: thorbjorn: like I said, I will gladly pay to have our forums hosted else where
(12:59:20) Kage_Jittai: where.... SOMEONE... can try to destroy the communit
(12:59:22) Kage_Jittai: where.... SOMEONE... can try to destroy the community*
(12:59:39) salmondine: dave did make a post today
(12:59:48) thorbjorn: Kage_Jittai: The problem at the moment is finding time to set it up and to make sure it's secure enough.
(13:00:17) BaseBallBoy1: salmondine: why dont you just set up a forum at freeforums.org ?
(13:00:27) salmondine: I mean good god, it was in off topic
(13:00:37) salmondine: done bbb
(13:00:59) BaseBallBoy1: OMG
(13:01:02) BaseBallBoy1: PODLING!
(13:01:28) BaseBallBoy1: i totally forgot it was u!
(13:01:28) salmondine: same
(13:01:45) BaseBallBoy1: done what?
(13:01:50) BaseBallBoy1: (06:58:28 PM) salmondine: done bbb
(13:02:22) salmondine: scroll up web address is there
(13:02:54) BaseBallBoy1: i guess you missed the "freeforums.org" part
(13:03:29) salmondine: well it is the new free forums format
(13:03:52) salmondine: I think anyway pixie set it up
(13:05:33) BaseBallBoy1: ah
(13:13:16) ***thorbjorn managed to get his unread email count below 200 again. Yay!
(13:13:23) thorbjorn: Time for bed.
(13:13:33) Ceros_X: night
(13:14:17) salmondine: lol
(13:14:29) Kage_Jittai: thorbjorn: stay up for another 2 hours you can say good night to me for once
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---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
blackrazor
Novice
Novice
Posts: 332
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 14:38

Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 07 Mar 2019, 03:10

Freeyorp101 wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 02:03
Oh, I think I finally understand!

By way of example, ircd@ was made directly by Platyna, so even though I was given shared access by similar special exception for account sharing, it would absolutely have been wrong to eg. copy ircd config and services registration database, because ircd account was not owned by TMW even though official channels were there. ircd@ was owned by Platyna. Nobody from the TMW Project pressed me to copy anything there, nor would I have done so if I had been asked. So TMW just moved their official IRC channels back to be on Freenode.

Would it be fair to say you believed that eathena@ was similarly registered to Platyna?

eathena@ was registered to bjorn, and if I remember correctly, testing@ was registered to me, and dev@ was registered to Bertram. Also if I remember correctly, I don't believe Bertram could be contacted about the move, so dev@ stayed on platinum.

If the account was not registered to bjorn, I don't really see why he would be immune to rescinding authorisation under the no-account-sharing provision, nor how he could have legitimately removed Platyna's access to eathena@ without uproar. If I had done that to ircd@ I would surely expect new iptables rules to be added to platinum servers.

blackrazor wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 09:40
It only shows that Platinum did, among other activities, offer standard hosting arrangements
I'm glad we agree that Platinum did in general offer hosting, and that the posted terms of service accurately reflect that. So looking at the chain as a whole:

- [X] Platinum Linux Non-profit Servers provided hosting in general
- [X] Platinum Linux Non-profit Servers provided hosting for eathena@ in particular
- [ ] Regulations of Platinum Linux Non-profit Server apply to eathena@
- [ ] eathena@ account was owned by bjorn, with case-by-base provision for account sharing with others that could be rescinded by Platyna
- [X] Regulations of Platinum Linux Non-profit Server state that "The administrator is not responsible for the content stored by users on their accounts, the liability for the above-mentioned bears only the user / owner of the account."
- [X] bjorn (among others) authorized the move
- [ ] Files that were on eathena@ are now owned by TMWC

Would you agree the checked boxes are an accurate summary of what we have built consensus over so far?

blackrazor wrote:
06 Mar 2019, 09:40
Your selective pulls are epic.
I have done my best to avoid reference to emotionally charged events for the sake of epistemic hygiene, and was mostly able to do so for the past six years. Unfortunately, it is in the most combative times that powers are unsheathed and relationships are thrown into their sharpest relief, so if we must go there, so be it. I tried.

I've attached the full log within a spoiler. I do ask everything to think twice and then to think twice again before opening, because there really are some quite nasty things in here. Remember that even John Lennon had record for domestic violence. Life is a series of trials to make us kinder people, and the internet preserving us as we grow is a relatively recent development. We must remember those we respect as they were at their best, or else be left with no role models at all.
Spoiler:
#themanaworld.chat/2009-10-01.121434+1300NZDT.txt wrote: Conversation with #themanaworld at Thu 01 Oct 2009 12:14:34 NZDT on Freeyorp@irc.freenode.net (irc)
(12:14:34) #themanaworld: The topic for #themanaworld is: The Mana World MMORPG - http://themanaworld.org - Please speak English
(12:24:11) Modanung left the room.
(12:31:06) kai_62656 [n=kai_6265@68-113-43-45.dhcp.crsn.ca.charter.com] entered the room.
(12:46:21) MadCamel1: yes.
(12:46:58) MadCamel1: Jaxad0127: could you add the analyze.php and other scripts to one of the repos?
(12:50:01) MadCamel1: go kids go!
(12:50:28) Jaxad0127: analyze is in the client repo
(12:50:31) Jaxad0127: under tools
(12:50:34) Jaxad0127: what else?
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(12:58:37) BaseBallBoy: jaxad i had an idea for botcheck when GMs are reinstated: http://pastebin.com/m2b7d454c
(12:58:56) BaseBallBoy: so they dont have to waste more time spawning
(13:00:03) Jaxad0127: ask the GMs
(13:00:04) Jaxad0127: not me
(13:00:11) BaseBallBoy: ask them what?
(13:00:47) Jaxad0127: about it
(13:00:52) BaseBallBoy: ok
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(13:35:15) wombatism1: http://kanyelicious.appspot.com/http:// ... aworld.org
(13:41:35) wombatism1: BaseBallBoy: you could get back to making pixelart and scripting quests
(13:42:57) wombatism1: maybe make more snowland monsters and quests?
(13:43:24) wombatism1: I dunno
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(13:43:28) BaseBallBoy: im not a very good pixeler...
(13:43:54) wombatism1: I'm gonna work on some quests myself
(13:44:08) wombatism1: I too am not a good pixelartist
(13:44:30) Galadriel1: a general comment about the 4144 patch
(13:44:30) wombatism1: okay Galadriel1
(13:44:40) Galadriel1: problems are solved when the .tmw folder in /home is renamed and the game is restarted
(13:44:58) Galadriel1: :) from... personal experience
(13:45:08) ***Galadriel1 rolls eyes
(13:45:18) wombatism1: what makes it different than the quol patch?
(13:45:33) Galadriel1: wow. lots
(13:45:37) wombatism1: I don't experiment with my client
(13:45:42) Galadriel1: drops can be like a carpet
(13:45:42) MrDudle: snowland monsters?
(13:45:43) wombatism1: just curious though
(13:45:52) Galadriel1: spells (i don't use) are automatic
(13:45:52) MrDudle: hmmm
(13:45:59) Galadriel1: here...
(13:46:01) wombatism1: MrDudle: there is the yeti that someone is working on
(13:46:01) MrDudle: wombatism1: how big are monsters typically px wise
(13:46:10) wombatism1: not very big
(13:46:11) Galadriel1: if you click a name in the OnLine list, it auto-opens a chat tab
(13:46:20) MrDudle: wombatism1: :S
(13:46:36) Galadriel1: pressing F in standard 0.29 shows purple blocks
(13:46:42) Galadriel1: those blocks we can't stand on
(13:47:01) MrDudle: Galadriel1: do you know big a typical pixel creature is
(13:47:05) Galadriel1: pressing F again removes all trees that block the view to fallen herbs
(13:47:17) Galadriel1: another nice feature
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(13:47:27) Galadriel1: there are too many to mention
(13:47:42) wombatism1: http://updates.themanaworld.org/tmwdata ... s/sprites/
(13:47:50) MrDudle: ty
(13:47:59) Galadriel1: MrDudle: i do not, sorry
(13:48:45) MrDudle: wombatism1: so do i need to code the pixel monsters in xml
(13:48:53) MrDudle: or do i do it in a picture program
(13:49:04) wombatism1: you could...but most pixelartists receive help with xml
(13:49:10) MrDudle: k
(13:49:18) MrDudle: so i could do the actual pixel part and then get help with xml
(13:49:42) wombatism1: yeah...but in order for it to be accepted, a dev would have to push it
(13:49:59) wombatism1: at least for the official server
(13:51:24) MrDudle: k
(13:51:54) wombatism1: if you have the capability to run your own unofficial server with updates server, you could do that yourself. TAW does that
(13:52:38) MrDudle: k
(13:54:06) wombatism1: http://www.thealternateworld.org/ always use a different password on unofficial servers.
(13:55:09) wombatism1: Galadriel1: sounds interesting...but not something I'd want to play with unless it was an official client.
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(14:06:10) Galadriel1: :)
(14:06:59) Freeyorp: in the latest git, drops are drawn transparently over tiles that would otherwise block the view
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(14:25:26) wombatism1: are we gathering at tulimshar?
(14:29:27) wombatism1: we are already halfway owning each other in the arena
(14:31:32) Kage_Jittai: Freeyorp: you coming?
(14:31:38) Freeyorp: One sec
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(15:24:23) wombatism1: kimbo!
(15:24:23) wombatism1: good game in pvp...mages totally pwned all
(15:26:08) Freeyorp: I killed a lot, and got killed a lot. I also happy-cursed a lot :D
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(15:30:48) Freeyorp: Would be nice to have a PvP ladder tournament, or something
(15:31:45) Freeyorp: Might be doable with onPCKillEvent and onPCDieEvent
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(15:42:55) wombatism1: I've got some tournament guidelines from some previous pvp events...doing a ladder with it would be cool...however I developed it before mages, so there might need to be some serious changes to them
(15:43:10) wombatism1: mages might even need their own ladder
(15:43:25) wombatism1: a lightning bolt or two is devistating
(15:44:01) Freeyorp: Well, we could see what the results are from such an event first
(15:44:17) Freeyorp: (Though PvE balancing comes first, I think.)
(15:44:54) wombatism1: yeah
(15:45:37) wombatism1: though once a pvp balance happens, it would make things a lot more interesting for pvp...a lot of the time if the character has the right balance, it is either all 1's or crit hit killing in a few strikes
(15:46:08) wombatism1: and mages still own a lot
(15:46:25) wombatism1: "magic" armor would be good for a warrior if it added some m.defence
(15:47:07) Freeyorp: I suspect many 'conventional' PvP builds still have Int set to 1, hence no M. defence
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(16:03:26) wombatism1: boo! Kimbo lost against big cuntree
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(16:20:16) wombatism1: is this rumor correct: everytime a jacko kills someone, it gets stronger
(16:21:17) Freeyorp: No
(16:21:25) wombatism1: I thought so
(16:21:34) wombatism1: that would be sweeet if it were true
(16:22:12) Freeyorp: There is something similar planned for something else, though ;)
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(17:04:13) Anonycat: does any amount of INT even add to M. Defense right now?
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(17:51:09) Freeyorp: Back, and yes, it does
(17:51:22) Ceros_: wb
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(18:09:34) koo5: back from a walk
(18:09:45) koo5: reportin 11 mld users online
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(21:23:07) thorbjorn: Jaxad0127: I will reinstate the GMs as soon as we have had a chance to agree on some changes to the guidelines.
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(00:29:46) turmfalke: Jaxad0127: did you updated the eA server?
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(02:14:32) Jaxad0127: turmfalke: no...
(02:15:03) turmfalke: means there is still the trade bug?
(02:15:14) Jaxad0127: yeah
(02:15:24) Jaxad0127: updating eA requires a content release
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(02:28:03) turmfalke: lol..
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(02:54:10) meway: any word on sugar?
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(03:00:14) Kage_Jittai: meway: last I heard, it was not cancer but she will still require surgery
(03:02:05) meway: its good that its not cancer
(03:02:15) meway: kage what dose GPL stand for?
(03:03:21) meway: i suppose i could google it i figured someone here would wiki to me cough (...)
(03:03:25) turmfalke_: General Public License
(03:03:34) meway: lol thx turmfalke_
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(03:26:08) Platyna: Yawn.
(03:26:21) kai_62656: ;P
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(03:28:00) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: did you delete the sugarcorgit thread?
(03:40:13) Jaxad0127: which of the three are you referring to?
(03:40:26) Kage_Jittai: the one in off topic
(03:40:51) Jaxad0127: all three were
(03:40:52) Jaxad0127: see: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =12&t=8446
(03:41:32) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: your a female dog, wolf, fox or otter, go away
(03:43:29) Platyna: :o)
(03:43:39) Platyna: Mine what?
(03:43:40) Platyna: ;)
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(03:44:40) arikel: jax : how do you update the server and server data? if you don't remember, i'm trying to set up a eathena server home, and all works except the map server
(03:45:10) Jaxad0127: git pull both of them
(03:45:15) Jaxad0127: then recompile, etc
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(04:25:30) Platyna: Yaaaawn.
(04:28:28) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: keep it up, and it won't be yours much longer
(04:28:39) Platyna: Keep what up?
(04:28:40) Platyna: ;]
(04:28:56) Kage_Jittai: the bullshitting
(04:29:27) Platyna: Look, you don't like my decision, well you have a right to STFU then.
(04:29:28) Platyna: ;-)
(04:30:29) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: don't forget, it was this community who provided you with your harddrive
(04:31:07) Platyna: And I am very grateful, but it doesn't mean that my thoughts are for sale.
(04:31:08) Platyna: ;)
(04:31:18) Platyna: I provided this community hosting for 4+ years.
(04:31:21) Platyna: So we are even.
(04:31:50) Kage_Jittai: doesn't mean you have the right to try to destroy the community
(04:31:55) Platyna: Without me arguing with Bjorn you wouldn't even have a forum.
(04:32:00) Platyna: Since they said it is useless.
(04:32:14) Platyna: Actually such people like you are destroying the community.
(04:32:30) Platyna: Community was successful and growing without pokemons and teary drama topics.
(04:32:39) Platyna: And with people who could respect moderators decisions.
(04:33:03) Kage_Jittai: w/e
(04:33:09) Platyna: Such people like you loves badwagon.
(04:33:38) Platyna: You think that arguing with me over pointless thing even if I stated rational and well thought arguments will make you a noble defender of sweet sugarcorgit?
(04:33:40) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: next pay check I get, I am asking thorbjorn if we can move our forums hosting elsewhere, Ill pay for it
(04:33:56) Platyna: Evenif sugarcorgit would die in horrible pain, after 3 months no one would remember.
(04:34:11) Platyna: This is god damn Internet, facet it and stop pretending someone you are not.
(04:34:12) Kage_Jittai: I disagree
(04:34:26) Kage_Jittai: I still remember lilo
(04:34:35) Platyna: Life goes on.
(04:34:40) Kage_Jittai: and he died what? 3 years ago
(04:34:47) Platyna: Yeah and how well you knew him?
(04:34:55) Kage_Jittai: not very well
(04:35:09) Kage_Jittai: I spoke with him maybe 5 times
(04:35:12) Platyna: And I have like 10 mbytes of logsfrom conversations with him.
(04:35:15) Platyna: So STFU.
(04:35:36) Platyna: I am now busy updating the server, make own forums and move the drama topics there.
(04:35:51) Platyna: I stated my rational behind my decision and it should be respected, even if you disagree with me.
(04:36:13) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: Free software is more about community then anything else
(04:36:16) Platyna: Not to pop here up in hope I will cry you a river when TMW hosting will be moved elsewhere or when you call me a female dog, wolf, fox or otter.
(04:36:26) Platyna: In fact I wanted to stop host TMW.
(04:36:37) Platyna: I am still doing it only because of community voice.
(04:36:45) Platyna: And you donated something to the server?
(04:36:47) Platyna: Rather not.
(04:36:59) Platyna: You actualy contributed nothing to this project besides of mindless yapping.
(04:37:15) Platyna: I have basicaly built that community from scratch.
(04:37:25) Jaxad0127: he's been deving
(04:37:27) Platyna: When I came we had barely functional server and 5 people in peak online.
(04:37:36) Jaxad0127: and you fixed that?
(04:37:44) Platyna: And we had forums full of spam, and server who was a month down and admin who couldn't be contacted.
(04:37:52) Platyna: Jaxad0127: Yes, I did.
(04:38:17) Jaxad0127: so, only you worked on the client and server? w/e
(04:38:28) Platyna: I was a server admin and only scripts developer like 3 years before you came to be a smartass.
(04:38:44) Platyna: At least when I was handling eathena it wasn't crashing every hour. ;-)
(04:38:58) Jaxad0127: um.........
(04:39:11) Jaxad0127: you were the one that kept deleting content
(04:39:20) Platyna: Huuuuh?
(04:39:37) Platyna: Jaxad0127: I am sorry you are in this project.
(04:40:00) Jaxad0127: like the time you deleted every npc in server data
(04:40:08) Platyna: You are actualy more active writing feces on forums and IRC than actualy coding tmwserv.
(04:40:12) Platyna: Which was your first purpose.
(04:40:24) Jaxad0127: no it wasn't
(04:40:30) Platyna: I did not deleted any NPC. ;)
(04:40:32) Platyna: It was.
(04:40:37) Platyna: You were supposed to handle it.
(04:40:50) Platyna: I remember your brilliant declaration we will finish tmwserver in a year.
(04:40:51) Jaxad0127: nope
(04:40:56) Jaxad0127: I was brout on to handle content
(04:41:00) Jaxad0127: *brought
(04:41:20) Platyna: Anyway you are wasting my time.
(04:41:20) Jaxad0127: when did I say tmwserv will be finishe din one year?
(04:41:21) Jaxad0127: *finished in
(04:41:22) Platyna: The time I could actualy use to do something useful for TMW.
(04:41:27) Jaxad0127: and you did delete the NPCs
(04:41:36) Jaxad0127: you're wasting my time too ;)
(04:41:59) Platyna: You do nothing else in your life than wasting your time.
(04:42:09) Jaxad0127: that made no sense
(04:42:24) Platyna: Welcome on my ignore list.
(04:42:26) Platyna: BTW.
(04:42:32) Jaxad0127: you said that last time
(04:42:37) Jaxad0127: and yet you're responding to me
(04:42:49) Jaxad0127: w/e
(04:42:52) Platyna: Server rules decides that if someone is going to share ssh account they has to consult the administrator.
(04:42:58) Jaxad0127: bbl, I have class
(04:42:59) Platyna: And administrator has to accept this person.
(04:43:20) Jaxad0127: you did......
(04:43:20) Platyna: So I do not allow you to access my machine anymore.
(04:43:20) Jaxad0127: why else would I have access
(04:43:20) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: I respect you do not want personally topics on the forums, however, they are in off-topic, and we should not try to control offtopic, futher more, this is important to many people of the community
(04:43:25) Platyna: Kage_Jittai: The discussion about this topic is closed.
(04:43:50) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: ask me this was it spam?
(04:43:54) Platyna: Since you Jaxad0127 are a troll, constantly trying to abuse me, I am not sure if you will not hack my machine or fork bomb it. ;)
(04:43:57) Platyna: So get lost.
(04:44:06) Jaxad0127: ...............
(04:44:18) Platyna: thorbjorn: Remove Jaxad0127's access to my machine please.
(04:44:34) Jaxad0127: bbl (as stated easlier)
(04:44:46) Platyna: thorbjorn: I do not trust him therefore I do not wish him to have access to any of my systems.
(04:45:42) Platyna: Not to mention no one disrespect me, except you thorbjorn, will have the access to my servers.
(04:46:10) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: your going to die a lonely death
(04:46:40) Platyna: Everyone is alone in their final hour.
(04:46:41) Platyna: ;)
(04:47:05) compiledkernel: Kage_Jittai: thats only because God...er...well...yes...God plays on a audience too afraid to laugh at her jokes, or even want to try to understand them.
(04:47:14) compiledkernel: <yawn>
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(04:54:39) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: you know your feces stinks as much as anyone's else
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(04:56:11) turmfalke_: o_0
(04:56:50) turmfalke_: why can't you get along with each other and try to discuss without cursewords or other attacks?
(04:56:51) compiledkernel: Kage_Jittai: You should know that the secret to being boring , is to say everything. That has certainly been the case here.
(04:58:07) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: the only reason why you can't stand the post about sugarcorgit, is that someone else is getting attention and sympathy, and your a god damn sociopath
(04:58:24) turmfalke_: umpf..
(04:58:33) ***kai_62656 agrees with Kage_Jittai
(04:59:52) ***wombatism1 agrees w/ turmfalke_
(05:00:01) turmfalke_: Kage_Jittai: and what do you gain from calling Platyna a sociopath?
(05:00:23) ***MaienM sighs and thinks people here should behave as adults instead of 8 yr olds
(05:00:31) ***kai_62656 sigh
(05:00:43) Kage_Jittai: turmfalke_: it is what she is
(05:00:54) turmfalke_: and does that changes anything?
(05:01:09) turmfalke_: or do you think you told her something you with that?
(05:01:29) turmfalke_: *new
(05:01:49) turmfalke_: after all a sociopath is still a human
(05:01:54) kai_62656: lol
(05:02:02) compiledkernel: Kage_Jittai: Id have to disaggree with you. A sociopath feels feelings , even if only utterly cynical to themselves, and has no remorse for their actions. While this may be true in this case, I think the person in quesiotn is more guilty of Dissociative aspects of such a disoder.
(05:02:04) turmfalke_: and there are worse things when beeing a sociopath
(05:02:17) Kage_Jittai: turmfalke_: no, I honestly thinks she needs therapy
(05:02:34) compiledkernel: DPD is quite a bit worse than being an outright Sociopath
(05:02:40) turmfalke_: and you think she will take one cause you called her a sociopath?
(05:03:35) compiledkernel: and commonly involves Psychotic behaviours, or actually full breaks with reality.
(05:04:46) turmfalke_: Kage_Jittai: for me it looks like your only intention was to hurt her and as we know Platyna she won't break from something like that
(05:05:22) Kage_Jittai: turmfalke_: when I was diagnosed with being boredline personality disorder, I was quite happy because I was able to get therapy for it. For someone else also suffering from a personality disorder, I would advise her to get help.
(05:06:06) turmfalke_: then do it in a more friendly way and not in the middle of a discussion
(05:07:06) thorbjorn: Platyna: Please stop deleting posts about sugarcorgit.
(05:09:35) kai_62656: yes
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(05:11:09) Kage_Jittai: I need a swim
(05:11:10) Kage_Jittai: BBL
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(05:51:02) wombatism1: is there a reason the mouboo death animation is different? On my computer, the eyes spin around, on my cousin's the mouboo spins its entire body in a circle.
(05:51:43) kai_62656_ [n=kai_6265@68-113-43-45.dhcp.crsn.ca.charter.com] entered the room.
(05:52:01) Jaxad0127: he must have customdata
(05:52:12) Jaxad0127: as tmwdata has spinning eyes
(05:52:44) wombatism1: it was a new download off the main site because he had to fix his os
(05:53:09) masonga95 [n=masonga9@220-253-161-136.WA.netspace.net.au] entered the room.
(05:53:30) Jaxad0127: so?
(05:53:37) wombatism1: so it isn't custom
(05:53:45) Jaxad0127: unless his .tmw directory had to be rebuilt, he could still have customdata
(05:53:52) Jaxad0127: did it download updates?
(05:53:57) wombatism1: yes
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(05:54:30) Jaxad0127: comp info?
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(05:56:36) wombatism1: he doesn't know
(05:56:47) wombatism1: I'll get back with you on that one
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(08:25:21) meway: wtf?
(08:26:00) meway: Kage_Jittai: whats up? ^
(08:26:14) Kage_Jittai: ?
(08:26:20) doorsman: 1we should ask you that question meway
(08:26:20) meway: platyna deleted what?
(08:26:32) Jaxad0127: plenty of things from the forums
(08:26:38) doorsman: <meway> wtf? < whats up
(08:26:43) Jaxad0127: mostly stuff that disagrees with her
(08:26:51) meway: doorsman?
(08:26:58) meway: english plz...
(08:27:00) doorsman: meway : feel free to ask Platyna herself
(08:27:16) doorsman: sry, i dont speak ingles very well
(08:27:17) meway: platyna wtf!? (better doors?)
(08:27:25) meway: lol
(08:27:38) doorsman: wait for her to answer, you'll see if its better
(08:27:46) ***doorsman ducks and runs
(08:28:04) ***Kage_Jittai kisses meway good bye then joins doorsman
(08:28:09) ***meway o.0 hides behind doors
(08:28:25) doorsman: lol Kage_Jittai
(08:28:31) doorsman: nice one :P
(08:28:55) doorsman: im already hiding meway, dont try to hide behind me
(08:29:12) ***Jaxad0127 uses the invisibility cloak
(08:29:33) ***meway hops on his server and @invisable
(08:30:11) meway: this command dose not work for some reason XD better check the spelling
(08:30:24) doorsman: invisable ?
(08:30:36) doorsman: and you were asking me to talk english ?
(08:30:40) doorsman: rofl
(08:30:51) meway: lol mine is not as good as yours 0.o rofl
(08:31:09) doorsman: we are all witnesses of that meway ^^
(08:31:27) meway: c(=
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(08:34:07) meway: ahh katze quiter
(08:34:25) meway: lol jk
(08:35:03) meway: so anymore word on sugar?
(08:35:28) meway: or just that its not cancer
(08:36:15) Jaxad0127: that's all I've heard
(08:36:27) meway: k
(08:37:29) meway: working on some icon ideas for the magic thing i dont know if they will be relevent.
(08:39:56) meway: i cant find that were was it at? anyone have an idea just off hand
(08:40:36) Jaxad0127: which one?
(08:40:46) meway: skill window
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(08:45:12) Acegi: Actually speaking of icon ideas
(08:45:29) Acegi: How about one for when slow healing (food, items, spells)
(08:45:32) Jaxad0127: meway: forums
(08:45:37) Jaxad0127: Acegi: go ahead
(08:46:08) Acegi: Oh I was just suggesting it lol haven't thought about what they might be.
(08:46:19) Acegi: I think you knew that though.
(08:46:30) Jaxad0127: meway: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8265
(08:47:04) meway: tx Jaxad0127
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(09:11:23) Platyna: ?
(09:11:42) Platyna: thorbjorn: I will. I posted why.
(09:11:58) Platyna: thorbjorn: And I never had hopes you will want to understand my reasoning.
(09:12:05) Platyna: thorbjorn: As you usualy never do.
(09:12:42) Platyna: thorbjorn: And I don't want Jaxad0127 to have access to my servers.
(09:13:00) Platyna: thorbjorn: Hate me or love me, I don't trust him.
(09:13:43) Platyna: thorbjorn: I am tired of you treating me on public like a piece of feces.
(09:14:01) Platyna: Long years ago people would accept my wise decision and bash the troll.
(09:14:15) Platyna: thorbjorn: You are making our community a pokemon cave.
(09:15:07) Platyna: And you people are jackassess, no one remembers when I argued with thorbjorn, who is stubborn like a donkey for sugarcorgit.
(09:15:21) Platyna: It shows how bloody sensitive you are. ;-)
(09:15:23) Platyna: Idiots.
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(09:17:39) Bertram: Sounds like I missed a war again. Platyna, you should do that kind of thing in privacy. (Just a piece of advice you will throw away, but I had to say it, at least once.)
(09:18:09) Platyna: In privacy thorbjorn ignores me. ;)
(09:18:13) Platyna: And just gives me orders.
(09:18:40) Platyna: Anyway screw it. The only real problem I have now is this:
(09:18:41) Platyna: boadicea:/home/platyna$ glxinfo | grep direct
(09:18:41) Platyna: direct rendering: No (If you want to find out why, try setting LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose)
(09:18:58) Platyna: And then when I solve it, I am back to play Regnum Online.
(09:19:12) Platyna: At least there are no ungrateful jackassess telling me how to do the job I did 4 years.
(09:19:27) Bertram: Platyna: I wouldn't
(09:19:41) Bertram: Even being sysadmin myself...
(09:19:55) Platyna: And emo children complaining that they can't weep on public RPG GAME forum after some person they don't even really know.
(09:19:59) Bertram: You sure are better than me, anyway.
(09:20:20) Bertram: the stroke thread, isn' it?
(09:20:25) Platyna: Being sysadmin is not measurable, untill you are completly pathetic.
(09:20:38) Bertram: Well, then I must be ;)
(09:20:40) Platyna: So if you do your job that everything works, you are as good.
(09:20:50) Bertram: or lucky ;)
(09:21:05) Platyna: I do not want to hear flattery, untill someone acts like thorbjorn and his little helpers.
(09:22:28) Bertram: My job is to run after other's mistake, but anyway, I'm not here to flatter. I'm here to try to, well, in fact, I don't know myself...
(09:22:50) Platyna: "[drm] Failed to open DRM device for : No such file or directory"
(09:22:50) Platyna: For christ sake I bloody hate udev and hal.
(09:22:58) Bertram: Acess or file not there...
(09:23:13) Platyna: Yeah.
(09:23:55) Bertram: weird anyway. Shouldn't be that hard to use a drm file, even for udev.
(09:24:05) Bertram: How did the problem happen?
(09:24:46) Platyna: If I knew I would fix it.
(09:24:58) Bertram: an upgrade?
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(09:25:26) Platyna: Newest OS>
(09:25:45) Bertram: ah. Ubuntu or something hotter? ;)
(09:25:53) Platyna: Slackware 13.0
(09:25:56) Platyna: Which sux ass.
(09:26:34) Bertram: Slackware. Ok, we're not gonna sleep before hours ;D
(09:27:05) Platyna: 12.2 worked fine.
(09:28:18) Bertram: What is your video card?
(09:29:34) Bertram: have you installed this package: libgl1-mesa-dri ?
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(09:31:18) Platyna: intel.
(09:31:20) Platyna: Yes Bertram.
(09:31:30) Platyna: I know you are one of old nice people here and you want to help me.
(09:31:40) Platyna: But for christ sake. I would check this stuff first. :P
(09:31:46) Bertram: Thanks for the "old" nice
(09:32:44) Bertram: Platyna: Never be just behind an admin when (s)he's taking his/her coffee, or trying to resolve a problem, eh.
(09:37:45) Jaxad0127: 20:12 < Platyna> thorbjorn: I am tired of you treating me on public like a piece of feces.
(09:37:51) Jaxad0127: we're tired of that treatment from you
(09:38:39) Bertram: dlopen /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/i915_dri.so failed <- have you got this?
(09:44:07) Bertram: Damn evening.
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(10:07:15) thorbjorn: I don't recall threatening Platyna.
(10:13:28) Bertram: thorbjorn: <Platyna> thorbjorn: I will. I posted why.
(10:14:21) thorbjorn: Well I have no time for that now.
(10:14:24) Bertram: Got no other clue... :/
(10:14:45) Bertram: I understand.
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(12:45:27) Platyna: Rawrrr.
(12:46:09) Platyna: thorbjorn: treating and threating are two different words. ;.
(12:46:22) Kage_Jittai: Platyna: are you a sociopath?
(12:46:27) Kage_Jittai: if so, please get help
(12:46:29) Platyna: Yes.
(12:46:29) Kage_Jittai: quickly
(12:46:32) Platyna: No.
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(12:46:40) Platyna: I love me being a sociopath.
(12:47:04) Kage_Jittai: life for you can be so much better though
(12:47:18) Kage_Jittai: imagine, people actually liking you
(12:47:21) Platyna: I prefer a sociopath than some emo being pissed that he can't weep on online gaming forum.
(12:47:40) Platyna: And if you actualy had a life you wouldn't sit here all day and look to harass me.
(12:47:48) Platyna: In fact I am mistress of not caring. ;-)
(12:48:09) Jaxad0127: you're the one that always starts teh harassment
(12:48:15) Platyna: In 2 minutes I will download what I am downloading and guess what?
(12:48:37) Platyna: I know you think it is impossible but I will not use irc for like 2 hours.
(12:48:48) Platyna: 01:27 seconds
(12:49:32) Platyna: And BTW Kage_Jittai, actualy people were demanding me to be a moderator and a GM again. So looks they love sociopaths.
(12:49:32) Platyna: Mwahaha.
(12:49:54) Platyna: 11 seconds
(12:49:56) Kage_Jittai: I thought you didn't want to be a moderator / GM?
(12:50:03) BaseBallBoy1: Bye P!
(12:50:04) BaseBallBoy1: =P
(12:50:06) Platyna: Hooray.
(12:50:31) Platyna: Kage_Jittai: I loved it. However thorbjorn since about a year knows everythingbetter about community management. ;)
(12:50:34) Platyna: Adios.
(12:52:20) thorbjorn: I've always known things better, of course.
(12:52:52) salmondine: really platyna, sugar is in intensive care
(12:53:55) BaseBallBoy1: thorbjorn FTW! =P
(12:53:56) salmondine: not like we have 10,000 people playing
(12:54:45) salmondine: we are a close group, I talked to dave on phone yesterday
(12:55:01) salmondine: I was appalled that forum post was deleted
(12:55:54) salmondine: hey its your forum, we did start a new one where this can be discussed
(12:57:07) salmondine: http:grou.ps/players_of_the_mana_world
(12:58:07) thorbjorn: Hmm, not connecting here.
(12:58:34) Kage_Jittai: http://grou.ps/players_of_the_mana_world/home
(12:58:48) salmondine: yes sorry
(12:59:04) Kage_Jittai: thorbjorn: like I said, I will gladly pay to have our forums hosted else where
(12:59:20) Kage_Jittai: where.... SOMEONE... can try to destroy the communit
(12:59:22) Kage_Jittai: where.... SOMEONE... can try to destroy the community*
(12:59:39) salmondine: dave did make a post today
(12:59:48) thorbjorn: Kage_Jittai: The problem at the moment is finding time to set it up and to make sure it's secure enough.
(13:00:17) BaseBallBoy1: salmondine: why dont you just set up a forum at freeforums.org ?
(13:00:27) salmondine: I mean good god, it was in off topic
(13:00:37) salmondine: done bbb
(13:00:59) BaseBallBoy1: OMG
(13:01:02) BaseBallBoy1: PODLING!
(13:01:28) BaseBallBoy1: i totally forgot it was u!
(13:01:28) salmondine: same
(13:01:45) BaseBallBoy1: done what?
(13:01:50) BaseBallBoy1: (06:58:28 PM) salmondine: done bbb
(13:02:22) salmondine: scroll up web address is there
(13:02:54) BaseBallBoy1: i guess you missed the "freeforums.org" part
(13:03:29) salmondine: well it is the new free forums format
(13:03:52) salmondine: I think anyway pixie set it up
(13:05:33) BaseBallBoy1: ah
(13:13:16) ***thorbjorn managed to get his unread email count below 200 again. Yay!
(13:13:23) thorbjorn: Time for bed.
(13:13:33) Ceros_X: night
(13:14:17) salmondine: lol
(13:14:29) Kage_Jittai: thorbjorn: stay up for another 2 hours you can say good night to me for once
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---Freeyorp
So you're just going to ignore my request for actual proof, in the form of a proper contract or statement of copyright @2013 (or earlier) pertaining to the data files, and continue to misdirect by swamping us with mindless drivel? I understand!

I wrote one up with minimal effort. It was only three lines of text. Was that too much work for the founder or his co-workers? Just slipped their collective minds? Trusting strangers over the internet? Lost in the mail? Eaten by dog? No contract? Too damn bad. No copyright for you!

Server permissions are like keys. I can give you a key to my apartment, if you need to stay there. Doesn't give you the right to rob the place.

P.S. Stop saying we agree, when we don't. I said Platyna offered hosting services (which is all you proved), but that her duties regarding TMW Platinum iteration were far more than merely a host. Which along with being the person actually running the GPL software, on a machine under her sole jurisdiction, qualifies her to make the copyright claim for the data files, in the absence of a copyright contract to override the presumption provided by the aforementioned GPL contract. No one else is in her position, by GPL contract definition.

P.P.S. I can play that game, too. So, we're agreed that since you have no contract or statement of copyright @2013 or earlier laying claim to the output data files on the TMW Platinum iteration, that those files then fall under the default presumed copyright claimant, Platyna, by order of GPL contract, by which TMW's contractual obligations of copyright are governed.
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Freeyorp101
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Freeyorp101 » 07 Mar 2019, 03:43

Regarding the repeated requests for a written contract. While we've already seen that a court will consider the impact of a pair of adjacent emoji in a text message as evidence, you might be interested in some of the general rules surrounding validity of online evidence, and how broadly this is considered.
U.S.C. § 7001. General rule of validity wrote:(a) In general Notwithstanding any statute, regulation, or other rule of law (other than this subchapter and subchapter II), with respect to any transaction in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce—
(1) a signature, contract, or other record relating to such transaction may not be denied legal effect, validity, or enforceability solely because it is in electronic form; and
(2) a contract relating to such transaction may not be denied legal effect, validity, or enforceability solely because an electronic signature or electronic record was used in its formation.
Rule 1001. Definitions The Apply to This Article wrote: (a) A “writing” consists of letters, words, numbers, or their equivalent set down in any form.
You might also be interested in the [statute of frauds], which exhaustively enumerates the activities which *must* require a written and signed contract. Which activity do you believe this falls under?
blackrazor wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 03:10
misdirect by swamping us with mindless drivel
These are all pieces of evidence that a court would consider when attempting to determine ownership of the eathena@ account, and many more.

If you do not wish to consider the evidence, why are you replying?

At the very least, Platyna providing written expectation that the eathena files and forums were to go with bjorn in 2009, when she declared that she no longer wished to host the project, is certainly relevant to the interests of any fair court.
blackrazor wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 03:10
I wrote one up with minimal effort. It was only three lines of text. Was that too much work for the founder or his co-workers? Just slipped their collective minds? Trusting strangers over the internet? Lost in the mail? Eaten by dog? No contract? Too damn bad. No copyright for you!
That's quite disingenuous at best. The Regulations of Platinum Linux Non-profit Servers make quite clear the rules surrounding the engagement, and hosts do not in general made individually named, written, and signed contracts for each user. I certainly have no such specific agreement with Linode for my servers, nor does TMW currently have any such individual contract with Azure.

From ~2010, I had a shell account (which is much closer to the hosted arrangement in question here, as compared to Azure providing a full VM) with wilcox-tech's public access servers, and they had a similar set of terms of service. I would certainly not expect my IRC logs (created by the irssi IRC client, which is also GPL, not that it matters, as you were the only one that seems to think TMWC believed they could copy data under GPL provisions, rather than having the blessing of bjorn, the owner of the files) to then become property of the server administrators.

You could ask the https://sdf.org/ administrators if they believe they own all the shell account data of their members, or if they made individually named, written, signed contracts for each member. If this is truly how the law works, I suspect quite a lot of people will suddenly find themselves in very unexpected situations.
blackrazor wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 03:10
P.S. Stop saying we agree, when we don't. I said Platyna offered hosting services (which is all you proved)
So we have established consensus on hosting in general, rather than hosting of eathena@ in particular. I'll go ahead and mentally uncheck step 2 for now.

You might notice the lack of a check on "[ ] Regulations of Platinum Linux Non-profit Server apply to eathena@". With that said, I'm pretty sure that the citations of Platyna invoking those same rules with regard to the eathena@ account, both in saying she could not be sued for eathena data breach and in evicting Jaxad, would make for pretty compelling evidence in a fair court of law.


---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
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Freeyorp101
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Freeyorp101 » 07 Mar 2019, 03:56

blackrazor wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 03:10
P.P.S. I can play that game, too
Oh dear. This was the sort of contamination I was hoping to avoid by not citing emotionally charged events. Would you consider taking a short break, so that we may be able to better review the evidence available to us later?


---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
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